Is Obama selling us down the river for a delusion?

[Armstead]

I hope what I just saw on MSNBC is wrong.

According to Countdown, Obama is pushing for a "trigger option" on health coverage, to placate Senator Snowe to be able to call the final bill "bipartisan."

This despite public opinion polls, the direction of the House toward a real public option, and the desire of a majority of Democratic senators for a real public option.

I hope this is not true.

But if there is truth to it, there is only one conclusion to draw -- Obama is selling out the people who brung him to the White House for the sake of some idiotic delusion of "bipartisanship" and to placate a handful of Democrats who are not really Democrats.

Olympia Snowe has said she does not want a public option. Therefore, the only way to woo her is to kill the public option -- or mortally wound it by making it rely on a non-existant "trigger.

This is Alice in Wonderland.

Say it aint so, Joe.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. I doubt that it's true...

But if it is?

A one term President.

:shrug:

[Cha]

2. I call bullshit.

[Armstead]

4. On me or Countdown?...or Obama?

I hope Countdown's reporting is wrong. I hope I am wrong.

[ind_thinker2]

3. White house already denied it on the record

http://politics.theatlantic.com/2009/10/white_house_denies_report_that_it_wants_to_weaken_public_plan.php#

[ProSense]

5. Remember when Obama wanted to kill the preexisting condition clause? n/t

[Armstead]

7. At this point, I'm ready for him to withdraw that one too, just to make Orin Hatch happy

As I wrote above, I hope Countdown's analysis is wrong....

But Obama is playing this very badly.

[slipslidingaway]

27. No, I do not remember that being reported. Since Nov 2008 the insurance...

companies have stated they would cover everyone if there was an individual mandate to purchase insurance.

When was that?

[bluestateguy]

6. This has been denied by the White House

nt

[Cha]

9. Yeah, and that is why I called Bullshit.

"White House Denies Report That It Wants To Weaken Public Plan"

"The White House is denying reports that officials are pressuring Sen. Harry Reid to scale back the scope of the "public option" that'll be attached to the Senate health insurance bill. Talking Points Memo reported, based on unnamed sources close to the negotiations, that the White House is "skeptical" of a public option that includes a state opt-out choice, preferring -- and advocating for -- a public option that would kick in only if the private exchange failed to lower costs.

"The report is false. The White House continues to work with the Senate on the merging of the two bills," said Dan Pfeiffer, a top White House aide whose portfolio includes health care. "We are making good progress toward enacting comprehensive health reform."

The TPM notes that Sen, Jay Rockefeller sent out a seemingly unprompted press release rejecting the "trigger" option. It claims that the White House's pressure on Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid is based on President Obama's desire to accommodate the wishes of Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-ME), who supports a trigger-only public plan and who voted "yes" on the Senate Finance Committee's health care draft."


http://politics.theatlantic.com/2009/10/white_house_denies_report_that_it_wants_to_weaken_public_plan.php#

[Armstead]

11. Alas that sounds like a non-denial denial

Comprehensive health care reform? What is that exactly?

Why not fight for comprehensive health care reform WITH A STRONG PUBLIC OPTION?

[joeycola]

20. The WH knows how to be wishy washy and deliberately provide

a non response.

[BklnDem75]

34. A non-denial denial?

Alas... it sounds like you prefer to believe the worse. Go ahead. Panic away.

[Thrill]

8. It looks like he doesn't fight for anything

This is pretty damn sad. I didn't think he was going to be so weak on these issues. With a huge majority, he backs down this easily. Liberals in Congress are going to have to make this guy tough.

[Armstead]

10. That's what I feel like -- he's acting like a bad substitute teacher with an out of control class

If he doesn't crack heads for what he -- and a majority of democrats and a majority of the country want, then he needs a spinal implant.

[fujiyama]

23. I agree completely

This is frustrating to watch. I'm absolutely stunned to what length they'll go to to placate Olympia Snowe. I'm sick of her and her inflated sense of self importance. Oh well, it's the President's fault for kissing her ass so much.

Seriously though, this must be pissing off many Dems as well. A lot of them have worked hard like Rockefeller. And now they're being sold out.

BTW, I like your avatar. I'm a big Curb your Enthusiasm fan. Did you catch Richard Lewis on Olberman yesterday?

[vaberella]

31. Its been denied Thrill.

Unnamed sources are running amok.

[Tarheel_Dem]

53. Alas, looks like Thrill has jumped the shark too. Rumormongering is...

the stock & trade of the internet, but intelligent people should take a step back, and wait for the president to make a statement, and not be baited by those who want him & healthcare reform to fail.

[Autumn]

12. Darn Countdown, spreading

bullshit R W talking points.:sarcasm: Seriously, I wonder why they would say this? The Whitehouse issued a denial on this.

[Armstead]

13. The WH issued a weasly non-denial denial...

They are working to merge the two senate bills for comprehensive health reform. What does that mean?

[Autumn]

16. i don't know, but if the Republicans

need a trigger to sign on to health care reform it scares me, because it sure as hell won't be comprehensive. The old saying "Where there is smoke there is fire" is all too often true.

[Armstead]

18. One republican -- Olympia Snowe...the rest of the GOP will still vote against

[hileeopnyn8d]

17. What part of

"The Report is False" is a non-denial denial?

[Armstead]

19. Where is "The President does not support a trigger" in that statement?

[joeycola]

21. I do not see it either.

[joeycola]

22. It means they purposely avoided using the term public option.

[hileeopnyn8d]

15. Timing

They had their show ready to go probably before the denial was issued. It does make you wonder if they try to contact the WH themselves to get an on record comment.

How is it that Marc Ambinder can get an on the record comment when so many others were pushing an opposite story all day?

[pretzel4gore]

14. the majority doesn't count

people forget; the overwhelming majority opposed the occupation of Iraq- millions were in the streets, though the news ignored it very effectively. Maybe that's why Obama was....put in(?) the WHouse...to use up/waste the energy that would otherwise be, usable on running down the busheviki (cheney, rumsmelkl, ridge, fliesher, junyer, asscroft, bill frist, the gopigs the kkk etc) which would not play well on tv- since the busheviki might include the media goons in their stories!
It's hard to believe such blatant fraud as 'bushinc' could be played on such a murderous people, but there you have it!

[Peregrine Took]

24. Already sold us out. When I see those speeches he gave before the election

I want to cry. I'll never fall for one of these great "orators" again.

[vaberella]

30. What the hell are you talking about? Actually, whatever. n/t

[Barrymores Ghost]

25. Yeah, congratulations - you nailed it. He's a stealth Manchurian Candidate.

A delusion of bipartisanship, the promotion of Blue Dogs and the ego masturbation of pseudo-moderate Republicans is the REAL driver behind his entire Presidency. What a brilliant re-election strategy. I can't think of anything that makes more sense.

Really.

[polichick]

26. I saw that on msnbc too - very depressing. Glad to see the WH has weighed in...

It would be completely idiotic to water down this bill for one Republican vote.

[bertman]

28. BiPartisanship is not achieved with only ONE Republican vote. Only a Democratic strategist

could come up with such an utterly self-deceiving, self-destructive concept as one Republican in the Senate voting for a bill and calling it BI-PARTISANSHIP.

I just do not understand the motivation for all of this wooing of Senator Snowe. Does President Obama need a paragraph on his resume about how he passed a bi-partisan healthcare bill? Is this a requirement for historians to judge a Presidency as effective?

Do the Obama advisors honestly think that having one Republican Senator vote for this will convince ANY significant number of Republicans that this was a good bill?

Who the fuck came up with this strategy, Karl Rove??



:mad:

[vaberella]

29. It's been proved false. He pushed for PO and wants it.

Obama coordintes everything with Pelosi. So I would doubt that reporting and not to mention it was debunked by the W.H. themselves.

[Mass]

32. I did not see KO tonight, but I read the original reports. It was about anonymous sources in the

Senate saying that.

Now, it may be centrists in the Senate trying to scare people from supporting the PO. It is difficult to know given the fact that all the sources in questions are unnamed.

One thing is certain: somebody is lying. Whether it is the unnamed sources or the WH is up to you to believe. Until proof of the opposite, I think this is just a way to try to scare Reid from putting the option in the bill.

[vaberella]

33. Or it's people trying to rabble rouse the Democratic/Progressive base.

Because they know they can get them to act like jerks when they think the President is a failing them.

[jeanpalmer]

35. Hard to believe that getting Snowe

is that important.

What about the possibility that a trigger may be preferred because it wouldn't take effect until safely after the 2012 presidential election, while an opt out might take effect immediately and the consequences would have to be dealt with now. I could see that as a consideration among the WH political strategists. They don't want to create something that can blow up on them before the election. There's a lot of risk and many unknowables in HCR.

[depakid]

36. Pandering to Republicans is invariably a mistake

Both on the political and the policy level.

Let's hope the administration at least learned a little something from the Clinton years.

[earth mom]

37. The writing is on the wall but GD-P refuses to read it. nt

[Lord Helmet]

38. Most reasonable people don't react to every piece of unsourced bullshit they read on the interweb.

Hey I've got an idea. How about waiting until there is an actual final bill to complain about? Or are you just getting a head start? I'm sure you'll hate is just as much as you hate the one that exists only in your head.

[Armstead]

45. When there is a final bill it'll be too late...Now's the time for input

[JTFrog]

39. I got your wall right here.

[Cha]

50. "The writing's on the wall"

:silly:

[Whisp]

40. the river has been sold by BushCo...and his previous presidents, dems included.

Obama is trying to reclaim it.

[WonderGrunion]

41. Wow! A slavery reference and A Sarah Palin quote.

Any wonder why us "cheerleaders" don't take you Obama-bashers seriously?

Kick, and unrecced.

[Armstead]

42. Okay how about "selling us out" for you sensitive souls...I missed the Sara Palin quote

[WonderGrunion]

48. "Say it ain't so, Joe" was one of her zingers from the VP debate.

I know it pre-dates that usage. There is no such thing as a clever original Sarah Palin quote.

[WonderGrunion]

49. You used "Selling us down the river" for our first black President.

You may as well have called him Uncle Tom or a house n****r. It's not just sensitivity, it's a continued pattern or racism commonly exhibited in the open by the right and way too often by concern-trolls pretending to be liberals.

[Armstead]

51. I did not intend it in a racial way, and there was no racial implication intended

If you assume it was an Uncle Tom reference, that's in your own head, not mine.

And if I inadvertantly used a quote used by Sara Palin -- I was just going rogue.

[mkultra]

43. thats actually nonsensical to read

If the house and a majority of senators were for a public option, it would be passed by now and obama would be faced with signing it.


Your post doesn't make any sense.

[Cha]

44. That doesn't stop the

whiners though, does it?

[Armstead]

47. Doesn't stop me from whining...(See post below)

[Armstead]

46. One of the President's jobs is to work with Congress to set an agenda

The real fly in the ointment is 1)the corruption of some Democrats who are beholden to the insurance industry 2) The cowardice of a few Democrats who are terrified of offending teabaggers and Republicans 3)A few Democrats who ought to be Republicans.

Real leadership on Obama's part would be to bring all Congressional democrats gtogether, lay out a clear plan for a real public option, and use his own pressure and that of other Democrats (a majority) who do want it and crack the heads of the few obstructionists.

[mkultra]

52. "real leadership" ?

So what you really mean is that he should be hammering people more often and using compromise and politics less frequently, right.

because, he has set and agenda which has been stated clearly and frequently now(only those who choose to ignore his statements are confused about this) and no one brings politicians together. He is doing his job which is setting the agenda and he is letting congress do its job. That makes it OUR job to call our representatives and force them to work.

Your cool and edgy political dirty harry fantasy just doesn't really exist.

[Tarheel_Dem]

54. Good answer mk...

Remember in the bad old days when liberal blogs, progressive talk show hosts, and all of DU were incensed that the last president was ruling by executive order & signing statements, with no regard for any other branch of government? Well, because they think the cause is just, some of those same people are outraged that this president chooses to govern within the constitution, and the limits it places on the executive branch.

Ah, how quickly we forget. Can't have it both ways. Either that, or some of us are big, fat hypocrites. :shrug: If memory serves, the o.p. was a rabid Clintonite.

[mkultra]

55. many of the "constructivley critical" where HRC primary peeps.

They call themselves the liberal base though which is actually pretty funny considering policy evaluation.

[Tarheel_Dem]

56. Exactly. (nt)