Kerry should distance himself from Dan Rather and the memos and ....

[nomaco-10]

SO SHOULD YOU!

Look, we all know this was an answer to the swiftboat assholes, but it's backfiring. Guess what people, NOBODY CARES about what happened 35 years ago to both Kerry and bush* in a war that most of the American public would like to put behind them at this point in time. It's a non relevant issue to DEFLECT both candidate's policies on this bullshit war for oil. John Kerry should challenge bush* on his deplorable record as the worst president ever and stop the tactic to once again divide this country on a war that caused so much turmoil back 35 years ago.

Kerry is not connecting with the average voter! How many times does he have to change his campaign staff to get a clue? Kerry must campaign on his own true feelings and heartfelt ideals to connect to the average american citizen. He has to stop trying to placate the McCain pubs and the Zell Miller dems and take a real stand as to where he wants to direct this parrty's future.

If Kerry doesn't get it together soon, the dem party will be splintered so badly that we might find ourselves under the reich guard of the bush* regime for another four years.

Make no mistake, Dan Rather represents everything that is wrong with present day journalism in this country. Even though he may appear to be on our side, he hurts us badly with his entertainment oriented, ratings getting, sensationalistic style of journalism.

Stop "requesting" that journalists be non partisan and "DEMAND" that they just be FAIR. We as democrats, will be alot better off.

If you believe as I do, which is, when the facts and truth are consistently told and reported in the media without prejudice or bias, we, as a party, will always come out on top. We must continue to be the party of fair play and truth, the seekers of peace without bloodshed, the party that cares for not only it's own members, but all of those across the world that are repressed or persecuted and need justice.

We must always continue to rail against the likes of FOX News, Clear Channel and Rush Limbaugh, but we must also remember to keep ourselves honest and above the fray as well. We need to change the media before we can change the poltical landscape of this country. It's like the chicken and the egg at this point. I'm just sorry that it took Dan Rather to figure this all out.

[joefree1]

1. Sorry, being fair and above the fray didn't work

We should spank the AWOL story for all it's worth. Ya don't bring a knife to a gun fight.


Download the free poster/sign here:
http://ediablo.com/eDiabloGallery.html

on edit: besides the polls today look like we're winning.

[umtalal]

2. nope!!! Kerry should stay the course. n/t

[yardwork]

3. This was NOT an "answer to the Swift Boat lies"

This is a story that Dan Rather and his team have been working on for years. Does anyone seriously think that Dan Rather is in cahoots with the Kerry campaign? No way.

We've gotten so used to the knowledge that Bush's campaign illegally interferes with the press, we've started to assume that the Kerry campaign does the same thing.

This is Dan Rather's story. It has nothing to do with the Kerry campaign. Neither does Kitty Kelley's book. They may help the Kerry campaign, but they're not connected with the campaign and they're not doing it to help Kerry. They're doing it for their own career advancement.

[quaoar]

35. If CBS was working on this story for a long time

Why didn't they find Killian's secretary? Someone else found her pretty damn quick after the story broke.

[w4rma]

4. Not this again. Another one telling us to give in to bullies and maybe

they'll stop bullying us. It didn't work in grade school, did it? Why should it work now, on a larger scale?

[bigtree]

5. I totally agree

that our candidates should not go anywhere near the Guard issue, and should stay focused on the issues and concerns that most Americans are struggling with. That does not preclude the need for the rest of us to continue to counter the steady campaign of lies and distortions from the opposition with contrasting truths.

One of those truths is the fact that Bush disrespected the military as a young man and has even more disregard for the lives of those in harm's way than he did when he joined the Guard to avoid serving in Vietnam. I believe this relates directly to his attitude now that has our soldiers trapped in a quagmire in Iraq.

Bush has led us into a manufactured war in Iraq much like Nixon's plan to 'win' the Vietnam war, and it appears that he would keep our nation and our military bogged down in a perpetual 'war on terror'. He was indifferent of the consequences of Nixon's expansionism then (he did protect his own hide, so he knew of the danger), and he is either ignorant of the consequences of his imperialistic expansionism as he bends to appease the neocon's in his administration, or he has disregarded the cost of lives and world prestige in a craven lust for power as he positions himself as the 'war president' in this election.

Vietnam is the metaphor that we use to gauge the limits of U.S. military power and expansionism. We can't judge Iraq by comparing it to WWI or WWII, Bush as Churchill. Bush is Nixon in his manipulative perpetuation of his manufactured war in Iraq and his rhetorical 'war on terror'.

"Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it." - George. Santayana

[Sparkly]

6. I disagree in part

The discussion of the memos distracts from more serious issues in the campaign; but it also distracts from the *content* of the memos and the issue of Chimp's AWOL overall.

It's NOT about what happened 35 years ago, although I do think that matters as well as part of the two candidates' biographies. It's about TODAY. BushCo is engaged in a cover-up today, right now, and it's been going on for years. That matters, it's fair game, and it's the kind of scandal that can turn voters.

I do agree that there are more important reasons to vote Chimp out. I do agree that the microscopic examination of the memos is a distraction. Toss 'em for all I care, they aren't needed to make the case anyway.

[David Dunham]

7. I fully agree. People will vote based on Bush's (failed) record as Pres.

[saracat]

27. Your kidding right?

Obviously you have never worked on a campaign if you think that is what votere vote on. Have you noticed, as per ALL the polls, the body count doesn't bother them? And they still believe Bush is doing a great job on the war on terror? American voters are dumb as a rock and don't even bestir themselves to notice what a record is let alone vote on it. TV, SWVFT and Kitty Kelly will have more to influence the election than any "failed record"!

[EST]

31. You make the point so succinctly

that I have tried again and again to show. The people who post here, and do all the work, do read and study the issues and can actually think, whether or not they happen to be accurate in their appraisals. The great masses do not think-the slander magazines do their thinking for them. They think astrology is the very epitome of science, and that creation science represents something more than a convenient oxymoron. The Jerry Springer show has to be the creme-de-la-creme of social justice. The moral warpage of the "average citizen voter" is what gives rise to the horrid outrage that got itself selected and is sitting in the seats of authority right now. The very best way, not just what we've been forced into, to approach these people is via the low brow excuses for public self examination that we are enduring at the present time.

This WORKS!

Now we (as have the corrupt r/w) simply must learn to use it, and, as is normal with politics and sausage, ignore the urpy-making mess and make sure we disinfect and shower thoroughly, afterward!

[Mr_Spock]

32. I agree with you and the poster you agree with

The "purists" are, inevitably, losers. Even though Clinton was right on most issues (though I actually now disagree with several things he did), he won the war of "leadership". It wasn't what he said on the issues, it was how he said it. This is the thing that Kerry is trying to master - delivering the message in a sharp, concise way such that the distracting issues don't matter to enough people to matter. If people are caught up in the distraction issues, it's not our fault (the average person) completely. Kerry needs to lead and we need to follow his lead.

[EST]

30. We are not allowed to discuss or vote on

the real issues of the present-the bush noise-maker is just too loud. The manufactured controversy about the legitimacy of these docs keeps them at the center of attention. I think the overall effect helps more than it hurts. Anything at all is better than nothing at all.

[rocktivity]

8. It would give Bush another reason to call Kerry weak on defense

If the memos are declared genuine, Kerry should ask what Bush intends to do about it.

:headbang:
rocknation

[nomaco-10]

12. You missed the whole damn point.....

Kerry should be less concerned about how bush* portrays him and MORE concerned about how his own party percieves his actions and speeches.

FACE IT, this country is split right down the middle. I don't need nor do I want, the John McCain's, the Joe Liebermans or the Zell Millers defining our party, atleast for me. Kerry is defining our party in this election and he is doing a very poor job of it as far as I'm concerned.

The more relevant point I was trying to make, is that Dan Rather hurts us rather than helps us as a party and I consider our very survival as a viable party in the next 12 years in the hands of people like John Kerry and Dan Rather, and I'm not entirely comfortable with that.

[saracat]

16. "People like Kerry and Rather? "" I'm not entirely comfortable with that"?

My , where is it that you stand? Kerry is MY nominee and I support him.Pity you don't find him satifactory. And Dan Rather has guts, which is more than can be said for most of the Kerry bashers.I would be estatic to leave the country in either the hands of Kerry or Rather.

[sonicx]

17. ok but...

what does DU or Kerry have to do with Rather's reporting?

[LittleClarkie]

18. That's so yesterday

Today the Democrats are happy with him.

Today they said he was on the right track and hitting his stride. All around applause from Dean through Kusinich. Happy days are here again. Today, several polls came out showing that Bush's bounce had gone bye-bye.

We cool. Our guy is concentrating on Health Care, the Economy and Iraq. All he said at the onset was that questions about the memos should be directed at the president, not him.

He doesn't need to distance himself, as he's nowhere near this stuff anyway.

And personally, I'm proud of Dan Rather for sticking to his pistols. Someone's gotta do it. The press have been too cowed for too long.

Dan isn't doing this for the party. Dan is doing this for the sake of journalism.

So what is Kerry not defining that you'd like to see him define? Serious question. What are you not seeing?

[rocktivity]

26. I DID say "IF" the documents are determined to be real...

That hasn't been determined yet. Of course Kerry shouldn't say anything until that happens.

:headbang:
rocknation

[girl gone mad]

9. Kerry doesn't need to distance himself..

because he's never been close to the story.

We couold all drop the topic today, but we don't have any control over the direction of the media. they will continue to talk about it, and it would be nice if we could get out ahead of them.

[KittyWampus]

14. What GirlGoneMad Said- Kerry Was Never Close To The Story

so what's the problem?

:shrug:

[sonicx]

10. why do WE have to do anything?

i'm sick of people saying 'we' when dealing with things outside our control. 'we' at DU have little influence over what big media chooses to report. Us talking the document story has no influence over this election.

and second, when has kerry ever embraced the story?

[AntiFascist]

11. CBS should keep the story in perspective....

which they are! I haven't seen mention of it tonight and they aren't turning it into a larger story concerning CBS' credibility. It is all the other news networks who are railing on and on in an endless drone of insignificant details and interviews with experts and pundits, trying a last ditch effort to keep Bush's popularity propped up into positive territory. Meanwhile, CBS is focusing on the much more important issue of how we are really doing in Iraq, and how military reports are beginning to contradict what the president is saying in his campaign.

[saracat]

13. Dan Rather represents the Best in Journalism!

Anyone who says otherwise would not appear to recognize good journalism when they see it.But it has been so long since we've seem any, it might be hard for some to recognize it!

[mbali]

15. Why and how should Kerry distance himself from an issue he has nothing

to do with?

Unlike the Swift Boat lies, this is an independent news story that was not generated by Kerry or any of his partisans. So why is there any need for him to distance himself from it?

And I completely disagree with you in your assessment of Dan Rather. He's one of the ONLY news persons actually behaving like a journalist - investigating a story, standing by it, not buckling to pressure from the White House, the right wing or ratings.

[in_cog_ni_to]

19. Bush is a liar

refused to take a physical because he was a drug addict and is AWOL. Until he shows us that he didn't lie, he did take his physical and he isn't AWOL, I'm with Dan. He rocks! WE NEED DAN RATHER!

[depakid]

20. Beg to completely differ

Kerry (like the rest of us) should embrace AWOL as a theme... AWOL in the guard, AWOL on 911, AWOL on the economy, AWOL on healthcare and so forth.

And while I agree with you that: "when the facts and truth are consistently told and reported in the media without prejudice or bias, we, as a party, will always come out on top," the unfortunate fact is that is not how the game is played anymore (if it ever was)- and that's NOT how to win this election.

I agree with this statement tor: "He has to stop trying to placate the McCain pubs and the Zell Miller dems and take a real stand as to where he wants to direct this party's future." However, the way to do that is through memes like AWOL and through clever soundbites that summarize his necessarily complex views.

[nomaco-10]

21. Sorry I ever sat here and wasted my time and energy.....

composing the whole f'ing post. Most, it seems, cannot seperate their blindsighted, partisan view points on Kerry or the whore mass media to seperate them. Very telling. Everything is black and white, no gray. Kinda like being at freeperville, lockstep baby. I thought dems were supposed to be all about thinking outside of the box. I guess I sort of understand some of that kind of thinking, especially after being saddled with the liitle fuhrer for nearly four years, but I had so hoped democracy and free speech would continue to flourish without so much disdain. Just goes to show what a stolen election, a moronic puppet dictator and a corporate controlled media can do to a decades old movement. sigh.....

[AntiFascist]

23. I don't normally like to give black and white responses....

but today, watching the CBS news and some of the other news networks, it seemed fairly obvious. CBS is sticking to reporting news and exploring the more important stories within that news, while others are out to destroy reputations and sway public opinion.

[uhhuh]

28. Thanks For the Apology

If you think that Kerry is not removed from this issue,and not focusing EXCLUSIVELY on the chimp's failures, and that Dan Rather is doing infotainment news, then it's good that you came to your senses and withdrew your statements.

[EST]

33. Please try not to be sorry for your own efforts.

Were you expecting us to fall into lockstep behind you and do the same thing as you are concerned (and rightly so) about the vast masses doing?

Naaa..ain't gonna happen among the fiercely independant thinkers extant here. If you don't take the time to present a point of view, to be supported or knocked down, then who the hell will? Your input and stand on issues are important; whether or not the content of that stand is generally held, or even valid, only becomes apparent after you stand up, never before.

The only way two or more concepts can fit and work together is to rub up against each other and that does require a little friction...

[gcomeau]

22. Partially agree.

We should support CBS's continuing efforts to investigate, a network is finally showing the balls to stick it to Bsh and that needs to be encouraged, but don't make the issue your primary focus. Keep looking into other issues from Bush's Guard days which can also expose his behaviour there but again, don't let it distract from the primary focus. It's a background issue which will sap Bush's credibility as CBS firms up their case but in the meantime push the issues of the day, which are:

1. The war on terror.
2. The war in Iraq.
3. The economy.

Not necesarily in any order.

I think Kerry could be nailing both the first two points at the same time hard if he'd just start using his work on BCCI, which is why I just sent this to the Kerry Campaign:

-------------------------------------------------
Why in the world are you guys not using BCCI to pull the rug out from under Bush's poll numbers on who would do better on the war against terror?!?!?!? Here you've got the PERFECT tool for illustrating in no uncertain terms ALL of the following:

1. Kerry has both the experience, knowledge AND will to go after terrorists on ALL fronts, not just throw soldiers at the problem and hope not too many of them get killed while giving Al Qaeda a massive recruiting kick.

2. Undermine the constant claims that Kerry blows in the political wind by hammering at the same time that he did all this at a time when there was serious political pressure NOT to go ahead with an investigation.

3. Give the lie to the Bush campaign claims that Kerry's time in the Senate was without accomplishment.

This is the perfect "Kerry was fighting terrorism while you were still in your 'young and irresponsible' (at the age of 40) faze" issue.

You guys can't not realize this, I hope you've just been saving it for closer to election time... but guess what? THAT'S NOW! The Republican convention's over. The 9/11 anniversary is over. The situation in Iraq continues to deteriorate and show Bush's "strategy" there for the failure that it is.

Play a little offense and go for the kill already!

---------------------------------------------------------------
-Grant

[deckerd]

24. WH claims credit for shrub's unearned Training Unit Citation

while serving in the 3724th Training Squadron of the Air National Guard.

As a trainee, Bush wore an unearned ribbon -- and continued wearing it after becoming an officer.

White House circling the wagons on the Guard issue. The CBS memos -- reproductions of unknown origin describing Bush's bad conduct as a serviceman which he now claims credit for -- are only the tip of the iceberg.

The real story is what Bush thinks of your medals -- if you ever served in the Navy or the National Guard.

BUSH SAW HIS GUARD SERVICE AS JUST ANOTHER EASY OUT IN A LIFETIME OF EASY OUTS.

Now, he's sending his fellow Guardsmen to die in Iraq when they should be strengthening the homeland, protecting ALL Americans from terrorist violence.

Now we learn Bush has consigned More Guardsmen to death in one year in Iraq, than died in the ENTIRE Vietnam War while Bush continues playing dress-up.

Bush continues to lie about a medal he never earned.

He brought up the issue by attacking Kerry's fitness to be CINC.

What are you, as a DU'er, gonna do about it?

My suggestion: all contact CBS. The memo story is the tip of the iceberg.

This is the real story that will vindicate CBS. The White House lied
to UPI about a medal Bush claims to have earned while serving in the
3724th Squadron of the TXANG. This happened THIS WEEK.

Now he is asking YOUR friends and relatives in the Guard to fight and die in Iraq.

For all you naysayers out there listen up. This is today's issue.
It won't BE tomorrow's issue because if CBS fails to follow up on this they are going down on the BushDocs bigtime. And inoculate Shrub as a result. The White House statement to UPI, in response to Walt Starr's investigation, is the smoking gun that makes the whole issue relevant.

Just because you get Dems and the media to stop talking about Shrub's fitness to be CINC, does not mean they'll suddenly start talking about your issues. It's up to YOU to prove the Dems and Kerry Vets know how to defend the honor of their candidates' service before the undecideds will begin to seriously respect Kerry.

Stop asking questions about Bush's Guard service. Start making statements.

Let Kerry alone and start demanding the media report that THE WHITE HOUSE CLAIMS CREDIT FOR BUSH'S UNEARNED RIBBON IN THE 3724th TX-ANG.

Contact CBS and encourage them to stay on top of this developing story.

This is not about what Bush did 30 years ago -- it's about an unearned ribbon Bush continues to claim credit for here and now.

[EST]

34. I applaud your enthusiasm and agree with most of your notions,

however, unfortunately, the ribbon thing proved to be a non-starter. I read a post by Walt Starr, yesterday, I think, that he had gotten the documentation back from the powers that be and the little prick was allowed to wear the ribbon because of his presence in a training unit. Wish it were different, but we have a vast boatload of other, totally provable evidence for his duplicity and lack of qualifications for any positions of leadership.

Walt Starr rocks!!

[DemDogs]

25. Agree totally

It is the right thing to do. CBS didn't do the work it should have done, or they were set up, so when the story does get verified it will seem like the same old fraud. Let CBS do the heavy lifting here, and stay away while they do.

[AntiFascist]

29. It seems that just in the last week....

more and more high-level military are getting pissed at this administration for not even admitting that things aren't going well in Iraq. I'm starting to feel that, while the polls are relatively even, it might be a chance to sit back and let nature take its course. If the Commander in Chief has caused morale problems in the past because of his attitude and his actions in the National Guard(as was affirmed by the secretary Dan Rather interviewed), then maybe people will begin to finally see him for who he is, regardless of what political affiliation they have.

[shivaji]

36. This issue is sucking the oxygen out of Kerry's campaign...

unnecessarily. Kerry can do much better dominating the news
with HIS AGENDA for the country. AWOL's guard service is not
going to change minds of right wingers or even independents.

The poster is exactly right....Kerry should distance himself
loudly and clearly.