The slime-fest continues underground

[Norquist Nemesis]

From David Broder's column:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A24762-2004Sep15.html
<snip>

"On the way up here Sunday night, I'd had a sampling of one side of that debate. Boarding the shuttle bus to the jet at Ronald Reagan National Airport, we were joined by a man in a Navy cap who carried a large sign he'd brought back from an afternoon rally of Vietnam Veterans Against John Kerry. He delivered his message to the whole bus in stentorian tones: "Do you know there's a museum in Ho Chi Minh City with a photograph of Kerry and a message praising his contribution to their victory? Do you know that actually advocated assassination of United States senators? "

So how DO we go about 'debating' face to face when these creatures board buses attacking Kerry and calling him a traitor? This guy was mostly likely spit on and yelled at when he returned from Vietnam. He's obviously still feeling the sting of it. But to put the whole entire responsibility of that experience on Kerry's shoulders in a negative attack is inexcusable, IMO.

Yes, I'm going to say it. It's entirely unpatriotic...especially since Kerry not only fought WITH others in Vietnam, he courageously has fought FOR vets since he returned!

[rocktivity]

1. He should have come right back with

"Did you know that George Bush didn't complete his military service AT ALL? Did you know he advocated sending soldiers into battle with no armor"

:headbang:
rocknation

[Norquist Nemesis]

3. I think you misread it

This was from David Broder's column. It was what he experienced. My point is that I'm sure this is not the only guy standing on his own personal public soapbox with a vendetta against Kerry.

[rocktivity]

5. My post and I stand corrected!

:headbang:
rocknation

[amber dog democrat]

2. Did I know that John has a North Vietnamese Flag in his garage ?

Did I know that John Kerry also assisted to fill potholes and to bridge and road work on the HO Chi MInh Trail ?

Did I know that John Kerrys parents voted for Stalin ?

Did I know there is a star on the walk infront of Hanoi's Traun's Polish Theater with John Kerry's name and hand prints on it ?


That poor man is obviously mentally ill and needs to get back on his meds.
He is a real credit to his beliefs. I honestly feel sorry for these people.

[The Stranger]

4. Spit on him right then and there.

[featherman]

6. Correction: that soldiers returning from Viet Nam were getting spit upon

is an urban myth invented by the RW. No actual documented evidence that such incidents ever occured. I'm not denying it is a possibility such a thing might have happened in extremely isolated incidents. But your guess that is was "likely" that such a thing happened is erroneous. The actual probability is more like 10,000-1 against.

(Sorry but this spitting crap has been a RW talking point for 35 years and it's a phony slander )

[delete_bush]

8. looks like we posted the same sentiment

but with different odds. Let's compromise and say 500,000 to 1?

[featherman]

9. LOL...I was being conservative but I hope it make the point anyway

[Leilani]

10. Spit upon has become a metaphor

for the treatment Vietnam era vets received.

Whether or not they were spit on does not matter; they were treated terribly.

That said, it is ridiculous for people to hold Kerry responsible for some people s bad behavior.

[LittleClarkie]

11. Especially when

if you read the WHOLE testimony, he talks against just such things. He speaks against blaming the veteran instead of the war. The VVAW were never against the vets. Just the war.

Same thing he said when Bob Kerrey got into trouble: blame the war, not the warrior.

You know, the way Rumfeld did when he said that Abu Ghraib happened because of a few deviants. Thanks a whole lot Rummy. Glad to know you're behind our fighting force, esp. when you contributed to the atmosphere they were operating in. You and Roy Hoffman should go bowling some time.

And then didn't Kerry help form the Vietnam Veterans of America after VVAW got to radical for him? Didn't this organization help bring out things like Agent Orange and the like?

The bad press about Vietnam started before Kerry gave that testimony. Witness Alice's Restaurant with its lyrics about "burning towns, homes and villages after being a litter bug." "I wanna kill. I wanna eat dead burnt bodies. Kill! Kill! Kill!" "You're our boy."

And that was in the 60's.

My Lai had already happened by the time of Kerry's testimony. It had nothing to do with bad feelings toward the vets? Naw, let's get the preppy vet instead. More fun to put a face on your hate.

[Norquist Nemesis]

13. Exactly. They've managed to make him

a whipping post. And the Bush campaign is all too happy about it.

[Norquist Nemesis]

14. Thank you. That's what I meant

and said in much fewer words. :)

[Norquist Nemesis]

17. Excellent article about it here

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1548/is_n2_v12/ai_19549100

I'll admit, you're right about the odds. But even though we don't know whether it literally happened to him, I'd still bet his perception of his treatment upon return was horrible and unjust.

Regardless, he's still blaming Kerry for whatever issues he personally is unable to deal with.

[delete_bush]

7. Are you really concerned about the unlikely

event that you're going to board a bus and have to debate someone?

And what makes you state he was "mostly likely spit on" when he returned? This occurred rarely, if at all. Million to one odds.

[Norquist Nemesis]

12. No, I'm concerned that events like this are probably

occurring more than we realize. These guys are full of hate and they are supported by others filled with hate.

If I were on a shuttle bus getting a ride to the airport in a city I'm not familiar with, and someone gets on the bus with a sign and starts a tirade as Broder describes...I'm not so sure I'd be standing up to the guy. He's obviously seething and I'd be concerned about his reaction. Could it be the average person would have a similar feeling?

There's also the average Joe Q. Citizen that isn't up on the facts. What lasting impression is made by this vet's statements?

As to the 'most likely spit on', I'm referring to the way that many vets were treated upon returning home. It wasn't with honor or thanks. And although they weren't literally spit on, in the perception of many vets it was the same feeling.

[EthanAllenVt]

15. Is there really a photograph of Kerry in Ho Chi Minh City

and a message praising his contribution to their victory?

I have heard this before but is it really the truth? How do we play this down?

[Norquist Nemesis]

16. I google for an answer

...never actually taken the time to do it before. Of course, it's all anti-Kerry sites and freakreap. It didn't surprise me that, yes, there is a photo. But that's not the whole story...of course.

The photograph "honoring" Kerry is captioned:
English-language placard below the photograph reads: “Mr. Do Muoi, Secretary General of the Vietnam Communist Party met with Congressmen and Veterans Delegation in Vietnam (July 15-18, 1993).

So the reality is that Kerry went there as a Congressman with a delegation OVER 20 YEARS LATER and they're pissed about it! Go figure!

Here's the site I looked at (warning: have a barf bag ready)
http://www.vetsagainstkerry.org/Misc/KerryHonoredByCommunists2.htm

[cheshire]

18. Your response is "Prove it asshat."