Rove has now apparently even neutralized Kerry's height.

[The Chronicler]

FIRST DEBATE - SIT DOWN

SECOND DEBATE - TOWN HALL (ONE STANDS WHILE BEING ASKED A QUESTION AND THE OTHER SITS. ZERO HEIGHT CONTRAST)

3RD DEBATE - SIT DOWN


2 SIT DOWN DEBATES AND ONE TOWN HALL WHERE THEY WILL BOTH SIT AND STAND.


U N R E A L


WHY DID WE AGREE TO THIS????????????

[JohnnyCougar]

1. cause we're wimps

[charlie105]

65. NOT!!!!!!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x891367

[dogtag]

2. Blame Vernon Jordan - he did the negotiations

Were they too desperate to get ANY debates?

[A_Possum]

3. I thought about this...

In the primary debates, the shorter candidates stood on boxes to even it out. Presumably Bush would have stood on a box.

So, it may be that a sit-down will actually show the natural height difference better than a stand-up would.

[cheshire]

6. Rove is worried turd will fall off.

[The Chronicler]

8. Bush wouldnt have stood on a box.

It would have been Dukakis-Bush 1. Except for us. Rove wins again.

[tedoll78]

11. Chimp could end-up looking like a kid sitting at the grown-ups' table!

lol..

[Cha]

67. I think Kerry's height will show no matter what

they do. And there is that thing where they say that the tallest candidate has always won. Seems weird to me..but there you have it.

[Carla in Ca]

81. Don't forget the smile...Kerry wins!

n/t

[cheshire]

4. If they shake hands they will be standing. Besides Kerry stand heads and

shoulders above the little turd in so many ways.

[DU9598]

10. Cheat

Fricking stand up when you want to. Stand next to the chair. Look down on the little man. What are they going to do, cry?

[demwing]

82. Yes. Bush WILL Cry.

Just like he did when Gore fucked with his "personal space," remember?

And then Babs got huffy. I thought she was gonna kick Gore's ass for intimidating her brat.

Someday we'll look back on all this and laugh. :)

[hlthe2b]

22. Yup... you'll see it when they enter and exit with the handshakes...

[Maple]

5. This matters?

[The Chronicler]

12. You bet it does.

Taller candidates get more votes. Kerry, the tallest candidate since ABRAHAM LINCOLN got suckered into doing sit down debates. UNREAL

[secular_warrior]

28. It matters because the LITTLE things matter

Despite being the minority and having no reason for people to vote for them, the Republicans win because the understand the power of symbolism and imagery.

I absolutely HATE the sit down debate, for any election, any year. It's not just about the height (which benefits us this time, but may not in the future) -- I just can't stand the 'schmoozy' nature of the sit down debate. It's like 'hey there friend, let's sit down and talk about this'. NO!!! A debate for the highest office in the land should be adversarial, confrontational .. a battle of ideas not 'coffee talk'.

The sit down debate ONLY benefits Bush/Cheney because the media has spun the meme that they are 'folksy' and 'connect' with 'average people'. A sit down debate allows them to weasel their way out of tough questions with the folksy bullshit act.

Our Democratic leaders simply DO NOT understand how to WIN elections.

[dumpster_baby]

37. IMAGE matters--pictures speak louder than words n/t

[OneBlueSky]

76. unfortunately, it probably matters more than anything Kerry will say . . .

tv is a visual medium, and the taller candidate always has a subliminal advantage . . . allowing Rove to negate this advantage was a BIG mistake . . .

[AlCzervik]

7. I don't ike this sit down crap at all

it's not coffee with a friend, it's GD debate to fix this frigging mess we're in. Why on earth did they agree to this?

[Guaranteed]

9. STUPID ASS FUCKING DEMS. Kerry needs to STAND ANYWAY

once he's got Bush there- and if they bitch about it, ridicule them for it.

[indie_voter]

17. Yep! Stand if he wants

Then if they whine, laugh at their insecurity.

We need to learn from the masters of spin and beat them at their own game.

[Guaranteed]

19. EXACTLY.

What would Rove do?

[GainesT1958]

13. Kerry's folks didn't want Dub to weasel out of the town hall format...

So certain are they that, even with "pre-screening" going on, Dub's going to get embarrassing questions. Hence the apparent compromise on the sitting v. standing.

Were I they, and going up against those SOBs, I'd make sure Dub had to do three, and had to face questions from voters face-to-face..whatever it took. Frankly, I'm still a bit surprised--and still very much in "believe it when I see it" mode--that there will actually be ANY debates. It still would not surprise me one bit if Dub and Cheney both ducked out of the forums at the last minute under the "terrorist alert" excuse.:mad:

B-)

[Guaranteed]

15. Just double-cross em.

Kerry should stand anyway. What's Bush going to do, LEAVE? If they make an issue of Kerry standing, just call 'em whiners, and tell em if they're going to whine about something so trivial they shouldn't be in charge.

[secular_warrior]

38. I would've preferred ONE confrontational, stand up debate

than the three wishy/washy 'coffee talk' debates we are getting.

ONE debate could be the difference in the election. The Democrats should have INSISTED on a traditional, confrontational, stand-up 'Kerry/Weld' type of debate.

The leaders of this party are ASLEEP at the switch, and are kidding themselves if they think Rove has not won a BIG point here. Bush (and Cheney) gets to avoid his biggest weakness and biggest chance for disaster.

[AmerDem]

88. don't count on it

Unless they changed the game plan, Gallup ( out of all people ) will be picking the so called "undecided voters" and Gallup gets to choose which question are to be used ( submitted prior to the debate ). They say it is to stop "repeat questions". Now i'm sure we all know who Gallup is right? For those that might have forgotten they are the polling group showing shrub with consistent 13 point leads over Kerry, when most others show it neck and neck.

There is no doubt in my mind that Rove will know every question submitted to shrub prior to this so called debate.

We will know in a week!

[Catherine Vincent]

14. I prefer they stand instead of sitting down. It looks weird when they sit

side by side like that. They should both have their own little podium boxes and stand.

[Cha]

69. Well, we know rove, baker, et al negotiated

to sit down for a reason. They are thinking that this way jr can't fall on his face as hard.

[xultar]

16. Who's gonna frisk chimpy for earpieces and transmitters? nt

[AlCzervik]

31. Will he be checked for one? I hope so

i don't put anything past these people.

[The Chronicler]

It may sound silly, but this could end up costing us the election.

nm

[emulatorloo]

70. yes it sounds silly - Kerry can handle it, sitting or lying down N/T

[Bush was AWOL]

18. I'm just happy we got 3 debates

Did any of you honestly think we'd see 3 a week or so ago? I know I didn't.

[peaches2003]

20. Because I imagine

it was the only way to get 3 debates out of Rove, including a townhall. I wonder if the Madman will show up at that one in his blue shirt (how many of this same shirt does he have???) with the sleeves rolled up? He does love costumes and this blue shirt thing has turned into a campaign costume.

[Kolesar]

24. What are the dates for the debates, anyway? eom

[dogtag]

27. It could have been worse...

remember the Lamarr Alexander plaid shirt fad which spread to all the candidates?

[Imalittleteapot]

21. Kerry doesn't need to stand to be a statesman or to

look presidential. Don't worry about this. He's going to whoop Bush, the "great debater".

[napi21]

23. Actually, there probably will be a chance for height comparison.

At ;east at the town hall debate. It is customary that the candidates greet each other and shake hands either before or after the debate. Surely shrubby won't want to look like the mean hateful guy and not do that.

[K. F. Gibbons]

25. You know when they walk out together from opposite ends of the stage and

then cross to meet in the middle where they shake hands to begin the debate.

What do you think Bunnypants will come out on?

Flag draped stilts.
Maybe he will hop up and down allot.
On Kerry's back.

What do you think?

[dogtag]

30. Riding on Cheney's shoulders.

[ellie]

85. Flag-draped stilts!

Hilarious! Thanks for the laugh this a.m.

[Sparkly]

26. It's more the lack of a formal, "presidential" stand-up debate I regret

The folksy, sit around all friendly-like format is one the Chimp obviously prefers. So there are two of those, plus the "chat with regular folks" one.

I was hoping for one with an air of formality. The height issue will be relatively apparent anyway, I think -- they shake hands, and unless Chimp is seated on a phone book (or Cheney's lap, or a high chair) their height difference will be seen.

[I Lean Left]

29. I'm much more upset about them not being allowed to

directly question or confront each other.

Kerry should wait until the third debate and blow off that rule. Keep going after Bush with direct challenges until Bush whines or snarls. Afterwards he can say the issues in this campaign are too important to let him get away with not answering.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

32. At the end of the "sit down" debates, Kerry should walk right over to

shrubya's seat and offer his handshake, while standing.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

68. Exactly

That's what Ronald Reagan did to Jimmy Carter

[seabeyond]

33. ya well just another joke to give the people

as the debate gets closer and he talks about it he can throw it in how every president that wins is taller, isnt it except gore/bush and really gore won. ergo rove insisted on sit down during all three debates. and then laugh.........

[karlrschneider]

34. Will KKKarl dress the chimp in elevator shoes?

God, I think I really should change my first name...can that be done?
:eyes: :evilgrin:

[blm]

87. Bush already wears two inch lifts in his shoes.

He has them built like Sylvester Stallone. His suits are specially made to make him appear larger, too.

Contrast photos of him before he took office with photos after. When he was in DC during the transition, he looked like a total limp dishrag next to Bill Clinton.

He even made sure that the chairs used for his Oval Office appearances were made much smaller than Clinton's. When he sat in Clinton's chairs he looked dwarfed.

[AnIndependentTexan]

35. Be more worried about this

Two, the "town hall" format of the second debate will be heavily regulated. The regular folks asking questions will have to submit their questions in advance to the moderator; the audience will be comprised of either "soft" Bush or "soft" Kerry supporters instead of pure undecideds; and there will be no follow-up questions.

[liberalpragmatist]

36. NO NO NO - this is GOOD!!

Have you seen Kerry do a sit-down debate? He's actually much better than he is at a podium. Maybe it's something to do with him having some instinctive desire to act senatorial when he's at a podium - but seriously, do you remember that last debate with John Edwards during the primary season? The one where Kerry was sitting down? He was terrific.

I also think it'll humanize him more.

But yeah, the height thing's too bad. If the two can stand up when they shake hands, it'll be cool.

[secular_warrior]

43. I disagree.

Kerry has an air of power and authority when he is standing on the debate lectern. It was his big chance to show his gravitas.

The fact is, issues and policy are NOT as important as image and symbolism in these debates. The debates are voters only chance to size up the contenders on the same stage. People usually remember only a few standout lines, who won the debate and how the contenders presented themselves (character/personality traits). They remember things like 'you are no jack kennedy' and 'there you go again' and GHW Bush looking at his watch and Gore sighing.

[sandnsea]

84. You're exactly right

I used to want Kerry's aide to smash all podiums on sight! He's gotten alot better, but he's better yet in a relaxed sit-down setting. I think this was a wise move too. The height difference will still be seen.

[David Dunham]

39. The first and third are stand-up debates with podiums.

That is what the candidates' joint memorandum states.

[The Chronicler]

41. link??

[Sparkly]

42. Do you have a link?

This is an old page, but I haven't seen a change or update about the format:

http://www.debates.org/pages/news_040813.html

"In the first and third presidential debates and the vice presidential debate the candidates shall be seated with the moderator at a table."

[Guaranteed]

48. David is right. I just downloaded the pdf of the agreement,

and it says specifically that the first and third will use podiums.

You can download the rather large pdf of the agreement here, at the bottom of the page:

http://www.georgewbush.com/News/Read.aspx?ID=3604

[Guaranteed]

50. It looks to me like we got exactly what we wanted. nt

[The Chronicler]

52. WHEW. Thanks.

[incapsulated]

53. Can you give more details?

I really don't want to download the whole pdf, if I don't have to. :)

[Guaranteed]

59. Here's the quote:

6. Additional Rules Applicable to the September 30 and October 13 Debates
For the September 30 and Octoer 13 debates, the candidates will appear at podiums. The September 30 and October 13 debates shall be governed....blah blah blah

[Sparkly]

62. Omigosh, that is GREAT!!!

Thank you both for pointing this out and providing that link!!

I am really surprised they are BOTH podium format rather than one of each as in 2000, but whatever.

[incapsulated]

63. The first debate is the most important

First, because it will deal with forgein policy, second, because it will have the largest audience.

I'm so glad this sit-down thing wasn't true, I was freaking. :crazy:

[Guaranteed]

60. Thanks for that, David. nt

[JI7]

40. JK said he didn't care whether they were standing or sitting

i'm sure he did take into account his height advantage, but he said that wasn't an issue for him. i think what he more wanted was freedom to question the other. and just less restrictions overall in when the can speak.

it was john edwards and dick cheney who had a difference in that area. edwards wanted to stand and cheney wanted to sit.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

44. Maybe Rove will next try to eliminate speech from the debates

to neutralize Kerry and make the debaters communicate by doing a primitive dance, like Bush does at all his public appearances.

[AnIndependentTexan]

45. Good news they are scared over at free republic

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1224068/posts

I am a little worried about the debates. I have no idea why the Bush Camp agreed to 3 debates and a town hall debate. I still don't understand the reason the first debate is going to be on Foriegn Policy this is going to set Kerry up if he does well. I think the Bush Camp dropped the ball on this one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Foreign policy is Bush's strongest suit, and he'll win that one. Kerry is the same anti-war moron as he was in the 70's, if you listened to his speech last monday in New York.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I too am a little worried. Bush will be able to kick Kerry's can on three or four of his positions of the same issue; but no one can be expected to compete with four or five views on the same subject.Kerry should be required to submit to the moderators before the debate, which position he will be using that night
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I hate the whole townhall debate concept. I agree that there should have been only two, but I'm not worried about the President. After all, he has three presidential debates under his belt and Kerry has none. Kerry is so full of contradictions that we know he's bound to get stung during these debates.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, Kerry will have to move to the left on Iraq or he will sound just like Bush.
I just hope Bush knows more about Kerry than O'Reilly seems to.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I suppose my concern is how the debates are moderated we all know the media is utterly stacked against the President...and if Bush were to make some huge misstep in any of them.
Basically Bush has to hold his own in all and perhaps get over in at least one or two. On the upside maybe the Bush camp agreed to having so many debates because they think that the debates will actually showcase how incredibly feeble Kerry really is.
But it's a gamble, no doubt.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

[Jack_Dawson]

64. ha HA!

[foo_bar]

66. they're playing "lowered expectations"

well half of them are, the rest didn't get the fax.

[DemBones DemBones]

46. I loved what Kerry said to Letterman the other night.

Letterman was jokingly referring to the difficulty agreeing about the debate formats and Kerry said it was all solved, George Bush will sit on Dick Cheney's lap!

:evilgrin:

I think John has a wicked sense of humor -- remember his comment after Bush* fell off his bike? Something like "Did they take the training wheels off?"

[Guaranteed]

54. That's how he got them to agree to this.

A playful little shove.

[JohnKleeb]

71. He does have a great sense of humor

Yeah he said something about training wheels in response to Bush falling off, He also said comparing the Bushes to the Corleones was unfair to the Corleones, and I gotta agree :D.

[incapsulated]

47. Just when I started feeling better about the campaign...

They do all this. Sit down debates. Pre-screened "questions from the audience". No direct confrontations.

Why not just let Bush have Karl foward his debate "answers" via email, for fuck's sake. Why not have Kerry kneel during the debates.

Jesus tapdancing Christ.

[AuntPatsy]

51. Watch a replay of Senator Kerry debating Oneil sitting down,

hes simply amazing when he is relaxed, Bush on the other hand has too much pent upped engery for sitting to be a plus for him, if you have watched him talk, he seems much more happy when he is jumping all around the stage flairing his arms, don't worry, this is not in Bushs best interest unless they drug him up....

[incapsulated]

57. Well, it turns out I may be wrong, anyways...

According to BGL above, they will be standing behind podiums.

*panic-mode off*

[Aviation Pro]

49. Hopefully....

....Senator Kerry will lean slightly into the President's personal space when they shake hands, thus dominating the smaller man. Hopefully, the President will lean slightly back, like a girl who wants to avoid being kissed, which will set the tone of the debate.

[Sparkly]

56. Interesting. I think Gore handled this well

As I recall, after the handshake, Gore took his time turning, waved; Chimp backed off quickly and scuttled away to get behind the podium. He looked scared. I think Kerry should let Bush turn and start for the seats first.

[newyawker99]

83. Hi Aviation Pro!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[The Chronicler]

55. Mods can lock.

According to Dave Dunaham and BullLooseGooney, I was wrong.

[Zen Democrat]

58. Probably the concession made to have the "town hall" debate.

In the long run, I don't think it makes much difference whether they sit or stand. It's when they open their mouths that the real difference will be apparent. And it's worth it to have the "town hall" debate. George has never been able to relate to regular folks.

[mr_hat]

61. Chimpy has problems while seated. Witness >

his recent U.N. showing.

[Joe Turner]

72. My Advice to John Kerry on the debates

We all know that the Shrub is an infantile basket case in the absence of his managers; prone to flying off the handle when someone pushes his royal buttons. This is especially so now that he is a president in Way over his Head. Notice how Shrub almost lost it when David Gregory asked him a series of tough questions about Iraq.

So, knowing what we know about the Shrub I think the key strategy in the debates is for Kerry to find something to say to Shrub to get him unglued, and stammering like the simpering incoherent idiot he is. I would study every comment, challenge put to him in the last 4 years that Rocked him or threw him into a fit and examine why it had that effect on him. With those insights Kerry might find a zinger or two that he can launch out of the blue on the Shrub in the debates. It has to be a surprise; something his handlers don't think Kerry will bring up. To be sure this all is standard debate practice but my point is to focus heavily on the things that "Shake up Shrub" and the psychological factors that relate to it.

Bottom Line: Kerry's primary objective of the debates especially the first one is to pop Shrub's protective bubble and expose "The Boy" before the world. If Kerry can do that, he will win hands down.

[Jack_Dawson]

75. Call him "George"

That'll set him off fer shure.

[bush equals idiot]

73. Who the hell cares if they sit, stand or lay.

Bush has got to show up! There's no where to run. Nowhere to hide. No loyalty oaths to have his pre-screened adoring Republican choir to praise him. He's gonna get skinned like a dead rabbit.

I want them to check both his ears on the stage for a hidden ear bud. That's what I wouldn't put past the bastard.

[K8-EEE]

74. This Is GREAT...After Kerry KICKS HIS ASS, He Can Stand To...

shake hands! Then Jr. will look like he should be wearing a beanie!

Besides, Kerry is taller than Bush even when they're sitting...GWB is quite wimpy actually and looks like hell these days, I think he's back on the Jackie D's! Hope he has an EXTRA belt before the debates.

[ComerPerro]

77. Bushbots are so mindlessly brainwashed

that I have actually had some tell me that Bush is "as tall as, or taller than, Kerry"

[JohnKleeb]

79. Bush is smaller than I am

at 5'10. Poppy was taller at 6'2.

[zulchzulu]

78. They'll have to shake hands at the end of debates

Maybe that's banned too.

[pacalo]

80. Because they know we've been fantasizing about them standing side by side

at the debates. A shorter wimp-at-heart standing next to a taller, more intelligent true hero puts the coWard-in-chief at a disadvantage.

[randr]

86. An attempt to falsify appearance

is seen as worse that the honest display.
When someone is found to have risers to make them taller they are actually percieved as less than short.
Kinda like putting a wig on.
The one thing that Rove is good at is presenting lies as truth!