Some Christians see Bush as a martyr.

[Jade Fox]

While overhearing a conversation between two Christian Bush supporters
this morning, a large light bulb went on in my head: These people view the
"attacks" on Bush by people like us much as they do the persecution of Christ.
In other words, his getting hit with so much negativity just proves he is God's
chosen to them. So any criticism, regardless of how sensible and well-documented,
is only feeding these people's need to defend/ support him.

Before anyone pipes up to tell me, I know this does not reflect all Christians.
But I bet it is accurate for an awful lot of Fundamentalists types, who seem to
more and more glory in the victimization of Christ, and therefore the victimization
(real or imagined) of themselves as well, being his followers.

The funny thing is that one of the people speaking today just got laid off after
many years at her job. I have so far resisted the temptation to ask her if
she doesn't wish we had the Clinton economy back! ;)

[Bluebear]

1. The Talibornagains.

A danger to the future cohesiveness of these 50 states.

[Just Me]

40. Who have "martyred" ,..."the people",...

,...that they are suppose to be serving BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!

They are in the "BUSINESS" of creating "martyrs",...haven't a freakin' clue what the term, "martyr" means. "They know not what they do",.....

[alittlelark]

2. Fool me once shame on you....

....fool me...can't get fooled again.


But I guess they can.

[4morewars]

15. Hey littlelark, look at this:

http://www.toostupidtobepresident.com/shockwave/fool_me.htm

[alittlelark]

24. I hadn't seen that for a year or so!

I'd almost forgotten that site! Thanks for the reminder (I tend to get too SERIOUSLY involved)!!!

[4morewars]

27. No Prob

Show all your friends !
:hi:

[Gelliebeans]

31. Is there an actual video clip

of that or is it just in audio format?
My husband thinks that is still hilarious

[4morewars]

34. I don't know !

I was wondereing the same thing the other day. The first time i heard it was on the calender with a stupid *bush saying for EVERYDAY!!!! Apparently there are no shortage of stupid *bush sayings !!!

[WillyT]

41. Try Here:

Link: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=bush+video+fool+me+once&btnG=Google+Search

:shrug:

Gotta jam to work now!

:hi:

[Gelliebeans]

46. thanks willyt

i will go digging :hi: I found it here is the link http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/multimedia/foolbush.mov

[Gyre]

3. That's why I'm saying

Kerry needs to be very very careful not to beat the shit out of * in the debates. The temptation would be intoxicating but Kerry's gotta rein himself in.

Gyre

[Jade Fox]

7. That didn't work for Gore....

and its not likely to work for Kerry.

No matter how Bush is treated by Kerry or anyone else, these Christians
will still support him. That is what's scary.

[kwolf68]

4. If I ever hear anything like this

(This coming from a Christian)...

I would simply tell them that they were lunatics. People such as this are beyond reason. Better to get a harmless shot off and just get the hell away from them.

[The Backlash Cometh]

5. They're just supporting their man.

Brand loyalty. Wouldn't be a bad thing for the Dems to do the same to Kerry at this point. My man, right or wrong, my man.

[DemBones DemBones]

6. Why not edit your header to say "SOME Christians see Bush

as a martyr?"

For the sake of accuracy, as you stated in your post you're aware it applies to only some Christians.

[Jade Fox]

9. Good point...done. n/t

[DemBones DemBones]

19. Thanks! nt

[kokomo]

28. the conservative literalist Christians, mainly.

I have a Southern Baptist friend who says Bush never lies because he is such a good Christian. How do you argue with somebody like that?
Rev. Irwin Baxter of Richmond, Indiana tells his pentecostal audiences that Democrats are in league with the Anti-Christ, along with the Pope, Bishop Spong, and Kofi Annan. God has chosen Bush to lead us to Armageddon and the Rapture. I fear that outcome but I don't think God has anything to do with Bush's murder of thousands, not any God I would wish to follow.

[Cha]

8. Is "martyr" Christian talk

for Bald Two Face Liar?

[neuvocat]

10. Tell that to the congregation Bush is a part of.

After all, its members tried to meet with him about going into Iraq and he wouldn't give them the time of day.

[Jade Fox]

12. Its stuff like that that his Christian supporters don't know about....

and should.

I wish I had a list of things like that to show Christians I know and work
with....

[liberal N proud]

11. Some martyr!

“Christian” President?
Is it Christian to export our best jobs to Red China, a country that persecutes, imprisons and kills Christians?
Yet, this is the Bush record.Is it Christian to offer tax incentives (subsidies with your tax dollars) to rich corporations and super-rich individuals when we know in advance this policy only impoverishes mainstream America?
Is it Christ-like to favor the rich and offer only callousness to the poor and the middle-class just struggling to keep what they have?
Yet, this is the Bush record.
Is it Christian financial wisdom as national policy to advocate huge tax cuts for the rich in time of war and record deficits?
Yet, this is the Bush record.
Is it Christian to send troops into battle without enough support and against the advice of the professional military, like Marine Gen. Anthony Zinni, who like other high ranking officers, have resigned their commission rather than support the president?
Is it Christian to act like a “know-it-all” and accuse people of being unpatriotic when they love their country and their troops more than their president?
This too, is the Bush record.
Is it Christian to play games of deceit with the American people and lie about the impact of national tax cuts and federal funding when said president and his advisors know that states and localities will be forced to raise their taxes to compensate?
This too, is the Bush game plan.
Isn’t there more to supporting families than cheap talk and talking religion?
Isn’t quality family life structured around well-paying jobs with full benefits so mothers and fathers can work in order to live, not live in order to work?--Author unknown.

What would Jesus Do?

[4morewars]

17. Excellent Post !!! n/t

[The Zanti Regent]

37. This is what my brainwashed family believes...

in 1980, they solidly supported Carter, but they got involved with the ASSemblies of GAWD and they mutated into hard core Nazis. They really believe the shit about Bush being God's man and it scares me to death.

[Jade Fox]

38. Don't they get that lots of creepy people have claimed to be Christians?

The KKK and the Third Reich come to mind, but there are so many more.

I remember Scott Peck writing in one of his books that the most common
place the find manifestations of evil is in those claiming religious authority
(at least that's the way I remember it).

[kimchi]

39. Hear, hear!

Well written!

[liberalitch]

13. Sounds like a personal problem...

... IF THEY DIDN'T FUCKING INFLICT IT ON US!!!

[Sparkly]

14. That is truly frightening -- the MOST frightening thing about BushCo

No different from any other theocracy in that sense; no different from the Taliban or Iran. Fundamentalist intolerants of ALL stripes are dangerous.

[DeadHead67]

21. To CONSCIOUSLY REFUSE TO HEAR that which is CLEARLY TRUE. . . . .

. . .IS in christian terminology, a grave(serious) or MORTAL SIN! Their resolute and repeated refusal calls into question, for me at least, the spiritual underpinings of the literalist/fundamentalist community. Where is their 'discerning' spirit?!!!

[Jade Fox]

25. Is there scripture to back that up? I'd love to quote it...

Also,what about free will? Isn't it supposed to be God-given, according to
Christian thought?

[wishlist]

16. I just don't get this crap about people feeling sorry for Shrub the victim

When it is Kerry who is being misrepresented, attacked and ridiculed without mercy by Bushco in his campaign speeches, in his campaign ads and by the media. I am tired of all the Bushco coverups, excuses and placing blame everywhere else for all of the bad things that have happened under shrubs misAdministration.

[JohnnyRingo]

18. Oh MY....I never thought of that........

...Now when Kerry is elected that means they're gonna view Kerry as some anti-Christ.

How ironic that GW is taking them and the rest of the country to hell on a rocket sled.

I imagine us God hating, hedonistic, democratic abotionists will get blamed for that too.

[NashVegas]

20. Cool! Let's Get Him off to the Lions

and all will be well.

[prolesunited]

22. You might be interested in this thread

We were discussing the similarities between the GOP and a cult. It's amazing how many characteristics fit.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2381789

[Gold Metal Flake]

23. When he loses, will it be "god's will" or an "act of satan"?

Or both at the same time rolledintooneandstuff?

[DemFromMem]

26. They like him because he's one of them

My secretary is the wife of a Southern Baptist preacher and she's an ardent Bush supporter. One of the folks that are part of Bush's hardcore base - and I'm in the south so I see a lot of them in my mostly Republican suburb. She's a lovely woman and she's bright so it's not really fair to paint her as a two dimensional intolerant idiot.

I think to some extent there's a little "ethnic" pride involved with Bush. With the possible exception of Carter, he's the most openly religious President of the last century and many religious people are supporting him because he's one of their own. He uses buzz words they like and and gives them a comfort level that few Presidents have ever been able to do. Sure there is agreement with him on many issues, but there's something more going on.

I rarely discuss her politics with her directly because I don't want to harm our working relationship (she's one of just a few Republicans in an office of about 25 people so I'm sure she's already a little uncomfortable). But I've asked a few of her co-workers about her. They've been talking about some of the character issues that have arisen of late - guard service, drug use, etc. - and she's in total denial. She did say to one that Clinton was much worse of a person than Bush. I think that many religious people were really turned off by Bill and they have supported Bush because they thought he was Mr. Morality. They almost seem to have an emotional stake in him being the picture of a Christian mensch so they go into total denial when confronted with hard facts.

[Jade Fox]

29. Wow.... welcome to DU!

Good information, there.

What's interesting is the way these people see Clinton as being so immoral
as compared to Bush, when by any logic Bush is much worse! This confirms
my view that for a lot of people morality boils down to one thing: sex.

I've definitely noticed that for a lot of Bush supporters it is a very emotional
thing, which to be fair is always true of a percentage of voter preferences. But
Bushites seem to be particularly unwilling to know about his flaws. At this
point you'd have to have your head permanently in the ground to avoid them!

The 'comfort level' thing annoys me. We are electing a President for the whole
nation, not a Dad for them.

[Gelliebeans]

47. Do you think

that it boils down to the fact that for the last 1500 years or so that sex is the ultimate taboo? We as a society seem to justify things like lying cheating and mistreatment but if it involves sex society at large gets real uncomfortable and judgement is past. I have been asking myself these questions for a while, since I am not religious I don't pretend to know what some christians believe and what motivates them to stand by a man that clearly goes against their own doctrines.

[Jade Fox]

51. The spiritual roots of this country are very puritanical.....

more so, I believe, than other largely Christian countries. Of all possible
sinful behavior, we still seem to view inappropriate sex as the worst.

[Indiana_Dem]

30. I just think they don't want to "eat crow".

I spoke with a Dem in my precinct on a canvassing walk and he told me his daughter is very religious and he said he can no longer talk to her about politics because she thinks Bush is chosen by God and that it's God's will for whatever plays out. :scared:

How on God's green earth can they think like this? He said he was a Christian and grew up in a Church of the Bretheren which was pretty much a pacifist church and he is opposed to this war. He went to the service against his parents and the church's wishes and is not against some forms of war for our country but he sees all the deception that this administration has been perpetrating. He said he feels Bush is not that smart of a person but feels the people around him are absolutely evil. It was so refreshing to hear someone talk like this in my town! I feel sorry for him that he cannot get his daughter to see things the way he does. He was a very genuinely nice man.

[progressivebydesign]

32. I actually heard something like that...

..some whacked out Christian was blathering about good people like Bush are always attacked, the way Jesus was attacked for doing the right thing. I don't think these idiots would know Jesus if he walked up and smacked them on the forehead!

[baldguy]

33. If he was a martyr he'd be dead.

We should be so lucky.

[Kimber Scott]

35. I thought they already had a martyr.

Ask them, if one isn't enough. If not, I'm sure there are a lot of people who'd be willing to nail Bush to something. I mean, if it makes them feel better.

[johnnyrocket]

36. Bush is the reckoning. If he loses, it's the END OF THE WORLD...

for the fundies. And that will be a relief.

[Morning Dew]

42. Ah, the passion of the C.H.R.I.S.T.

Christ
Hating,
Religiously
Intolerant,
Shrubist
Taliban.

[ncteechur]

43. Most smart people see bush as a friggin dumbass!!

[mitchum]

44. Well, this non-Christian wishes that he were a martyr...

Bring on the Lions!

[kwolf68]

45. Bush has a long way to go

From Matthew

"Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.

Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.

Blessed are those who hunger
and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.

Blessed are the merciful,
for they will receive mercy.

Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.

Blessed are the peacemakers, for
they will be called children of God.

Blessed are those who are
persecuted for righteousness' sake,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are you when people revile you and persecute you
and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account.

Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for
in the same way they persecuted the prophets who went before you."

[despairing optimist]

48. Who cares what those nutcases think?

It's a free country, and fortunately for us, they're in the minority, so let's make sure we outnumber them at the polls, where it counts. After the election they can go home and believe whatever they like, as long as it doesn't involve the rest of us.

[ogsball]

49. Bush uses the Evangelical Code Well

He uses the right words and uses the separation of church & state to keep his messages covert.

I also heard someone do a thing on how many times speakers at the Repub convention mentioned God and Bush in the same sentence. It's bullet proof.

[aaronbees]

50. Absolutely

They'd rather be righteous and watch America's youth get shot up to bits in Iraq than tolerant and peaceful. It's kind of like the white man's backlash against affirmative action: "Poor me." They would never vote for Kerry precisely because he doesn't confirm their fear and hatred of other people. Connect the dots between Bush, the crazy fervor for a film like "Passion of Christ," and the GOP's trotting out push-button issues right before the election. Freaky, but yes ... they are in the minority. And thank God for that!