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Doohickie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 12:30 AM
Original message
On switching presidents during wartime...
Edited on Mon Sep-27-04 12:34 AM by Paul_H
I am currently reading Franklin and Winston: An Intimate Portrait of an Epic Friendship by Jon Meacham. And I was struck by some of the reasons that Roosevelt chose to run and was elected to an unprecedented four terms as president. Paramount among these was the very personal relationships Roosevelt had with allied leaders, primarily Churchill and Stalin. Churchill particularly felt it important that Roosevelt continue as president to ensure that America would continue its strong support of Britain during the war. The British people, as well as the people of many other countries, looked upon Roosevelt as a great leader and a deliverer from tyranny.

There was also the great involvement of Roosevelt in military strategy and at times even tactics. Roosevelt was very engaged in the war and the way it was fought. Despite his illness he traveled internationally to support the war effort, was well briefed, and used his powers as president to ensure the troops got what they needed.

Compare this with the current situation. President Bush has an official relationship with British Prime Minister Tony Blair, but it does not appear that the relationship goes deeper than that. Blair has hitched his star to Bush, and the result for Blair has been rather too reminiscent of Mr. Toad's Wild Ride. While British citizens were grateful to Churchill for the help he was able to arrange from the U.S. through Roosevelt, Blair's ties to Bush are a political liability. Most other international leaders openly oppose Bush's strategy in Iraq. The people of most of the historical allies of the United States are very displeased with the "war on terror" thus far.

As far as involvement in the war, Bush uses it to his political advantage, but does not seem to be managing it closely enough to prevent blunders such as the Abu Graib. More recently, there is the increasing anti-American sentiment in both Iraq and Afghanistan. In both countries, the United States is seen increasingly as an occupying, rather than a liberating, force.

Bush warns against changing horses in mid-stream. But if you look at the rationale behind this cliche: Relationships with world leaders, the image of the United States abroad, the desire to continue the current course in the prosecution of the war, it becomes clear that changing horses in mid-stream is exactly what should happen. For Bush to compare himself to the great wartime presidents of the past is ludicrous. Only sudden, radical, changes in the level of responisibility the president assumes for the war, the relationships with our traditional allies, and especially the way we are viewed by countries where war rages, can lead to any hope of a positive outcome.

President Bush has made wrong decisions in matters of diplomacy and war repeatedly during his administration. The only sane choice for the American people is to elect John Kerry.
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burrowowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 12:32 AM
Response to Original message
1. Let's say that if we don't switch
it will be like that song where the Sgt tells his men to go on into the big muddy and they drown.
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A_Possum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 12:33 AM
Response to Original message
2. Don't change horsemen in the middle of an Apocalypse!
Edited on Mon Sep-27-04 12:34 AM by A_Possum
I love that line, courtesy of someone's sig here on DU.
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The Velveteen Ocelot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Reminds me of an old one...
Why Change Dicks In The Middle Of A Screw?
Vote For Nixon In '72.
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Doohickie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Somehow I missed that one
Okay, I was only ten at the time, but still...
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 12:34 AM
Response to Original message
3. Since he had a bit of trouble even pronouncing Abu Graib,
I would think people would want to know why this president who has taken us into a war where over twelve thousand Iraqs have died along with over one thousand Americans, he could at least learn now to pronounce things that pertain to this Iraq war..

http://www.bushflash.com/quicktime/3Strikes_hi2.mov
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Doohickie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. I hate to stick up for Bush, but....
Edited on Mon Sep-27-04 12:38 AM by Paul_H
Did you hear the piece on NPR regarding the pronunciation of Abu Graib? Virtually no American can say it properly; the sounds required are just not part of the English language. Of several Iraqi's who pronounced the name for NPR, they all sounded different to me.

We tend to accept "Aboo Grabe" as the proper pronunciation, but even that is not correct.
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Josh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. That's true, but even "Aboo Grabe" was too hard for Bush -
I don't expect him to be able to pronounce it properly, which I admit I obviously cannot either. But we appear to have, as you have pointed out, an accept Western pronunciation of the prison as "Abuu Grabe" or "Aboo Gh'rabe" - Bush couldn't get *that*, that's the issue, I think.

Cheers.
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elperromagico Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 12:35 AM
Response to Original message
4. It's wise to change horses in midstream if the current horse is drowning.
Edited on Mon Sep-27-04 12:36 AM by elperromagico
If the horse is drowning, the person riding it is next.
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. It's even better not to even enter the stream on a horse
that doesn't know its ass from a hole in the ground.
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elperromagico Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Indeed. n/t
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bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. isn't there an old TX/western saying...'he'll do to ride the river with'?
meaning he's someone reliable whom you can trust?

it was dangerous to 'ride the river', cross the river, because of currents etc. you needed someone you could depend on if you or others got in trouble.

W HAS SHOWN HE DOES NOT DO TO RIDE THE RIVER WITH
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Gore1FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-27-04 01:16 AM
Response to Original message
11. We've changed before
We changed in WWII after FDR died.

We changed in Korea to Ike.

We changed in Vietnam, and the fiasco stayed the same

You could make argument that change from Carter to Reagan during ther Iran Hostage crisis counts.
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