France&Germany: no military assistance in Iraq even if John Kerry elected

[zaj]

What does this mean and how does this effect the Kerry campaign and his plan in Iraq?


http://news.ft.com/cms/s/36048bf8-0ff7-11d9-ba62-00000e2511c8.html

"I cannot imagine that there will be any change in our decision not to send troops, whoever becomes president," Gert Weisskirchen, member of parliament and foreign policy expert for Germany's ruling Social Democratic Party, said in an interview

[demnan]

1. I think we will have a draft. Period.

n/t

[CatWoman]

2. I think we should try to get Kerry elected; first things first.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

3. It reinforces Kerry's arguement that it was a HUGE mistake

You see, when you start a war, you need a just cause.

[MsTryska]

4. Sounds like they are leaving the door open to

anything, but sending their own people, including perhaps helping with the funding. I'm sure Canada will help us clean up george's mess. They're good people like that when it comes to cleaning up after drunks.

[TheDebbieDee]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAhahahhahahhahahahahaha!

[Rambis]

5. Way to fight tera the European way- Shut up about it! dumbass

These European countries have expressed a more quiet but collective resolve to work within an international consensus to fight terrorism. In the eyes of many European counterterrorism specialists and officials, the Bush administration's reliance on conventional military means can serve to provoke more terrorism

http://www.iht.com/articles/540636.html

[mike_c]

6. JK does not have a credible plan for getting out of Iraq....

As much as people want to believe he does, he doesn't. He has articulated plans, but they are just not realistic. There is only one way out of Iraq-- the only questions are how long will we refuse to acknowledge reality, and how many innocent people will die until we do?

[htuttle]

10. Any credible plan he announces before the election...

...will be impossible to implement next January.

Fact is, Bush is going to be able to fuck up Iraq until January -- no real way to stop him from causing more damage until Kerry takes office. Any concrete plan Kerry comes up with now is going to be obsolete by Jan 20th.

:shrug:

[Malva Zebrina]

13. The deaths of innocent children and women

mean nothing to anyone but the Iraqi guerillas/dissenters. It has been completely ignored by almost everyone. Those fifty percent who support Bush have no, absolutely no, interest in the murders of those people. They are only game icons. They shed responsibililty like water off a duck.

[hansolsen]

15. Correct. Yes. True. I agree. Bump, and Kick.

It is not too late for Kerry to make more sensible noises about what he will do if it becomes even more apparent the Iraqi people do not really welcome our "help" there, and the whole world wants a major course correction, not a nuance sandwich.

I believe the route out of Iraq starts with admitting the whole thing was a huge mistake. And in particular, it requires the neocon brain trust to come to the conclusion that the war in Iraq is hurting Israel, not helping Israel. That is apparent now, of course, but old men in high places have a hard time admitting their mistakes. That obstinance is the main obstacle to peace in the middle east.

[Rose Siding]

7. This article contradicts this poll for support

The FT piece says here:

There is no sign that the German public, which loathes the US president, would accept risking German lives to salvage what is widely seen as Mr Bush's botched war.

But the WP reports on a poll that finds:

Interestingly, clear majorities in France, Germany and Spain -- whose governments oppose deploying troops in Iraq -- would back sending troops as part of a U.N.-mandated peacekeeping force, though support fell if those troops would be under U.S. command, the survey found.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A6640-2004Sep8.html?nav=rss_politics

I don't see the actual stats anywhere in the article, but it's good news considering that those govts seem responsive to their publics.

[strizi64]

11. That's it,

if Kerry is elected, they will take this back to the UN and find a new resolution. A resolution about a plan with a timeline to realy free elections. We won't let Kerry sitting out there in the rain all alone, but it's all about politics and nobody loves to lose his face. In America as in Europe. The problem is Bu$h...

[kaitykaity]

8. Was there a quote about the $$$$$?

The contracts, forgiving Iraq's debt, all of that other
stuff that Kerry plans to work on?

[displacedtexan]

9. This means that integrity and the rule of law are still alive and well...

just not here.

JK has promised to build a coalition to fight terror... not bomb the beejeezus out of bystanders.

JK has never, to my knowledge, promised to continue the attacks in Iraq after he's elected; therefore, why would he need German and French troops?

[ComerPerro]

12. At least we wouldn't have the same levels of hostility

I think this really indicates how badly Bush has fucked this up, and how much he has screwed us over.

[Hubert Flottz]

14. They hate us for our Freedom......

Fries!

They think Bush is a Nazi! They know more about Nazis than the American people!

[MattNC]

16. let's wait and see

If I were the French or Germans I wouldn't go around claiming major support in Iraq only if Kerry is elected. It'll strain relations further if Bush is elected.

[liberal N proud]

17. France and Germany say that now, but can Kerry convince them

anyway?
With the correct person in office, he can convince them with the right content and sustenance to help.
They say that now because they don't see any chance in getting any of the contracts for rebuilding.
If they were promised a few contracts, they could be persuaded.

[underpants]

18. They are just holding out for a bigger piece of the pie

$$$$$$$$$$

[KittyWampus]

19. If They Did It Through UN Auspices & Were Allowed Bidding On Contracts

they most probably WOULD.

[deckerd]

21. So Dems should support divvying up Iraq's resources

In order to convince Europeans to provide the essential troops needed to PROLONG the war.

Is that Kerry's plan?

Iraqi resources belong to Iraqi's.

You guys are talking about hiring a mafia don (European firms backed by European troops)
to evict a burglar (Halliburton).

[KittyWampus]

23. So Countries That Help Iraq Should Be Excluded From Bidding On Contracts?

Kerry also talks about getting Muslims countries working there too.... but this thread is about Germany & France.

[Dr Fate]

20. Let's put a real diplomat in office, then we will see.

With Kerry, we have a guy with credibility, rather than a guy w/ a record of lying to the UN.

W/ Kerry, I think we have a shot at clearing up some of this mess.

[ContinentalOp]

22. Of course these countries don't want to be involved in the occupation.

Kerry's point as I understand it is to get the UN involved and build international support for a rebuilding and peacekeeping effort. Not simply to get some extra German and French troops in there to continue fighting.

[JVS]

24. Duh! Why would they want to be in the mess we're in

Not being there is the reward for making the correct decision not to go in the first place.