Even the "bright side" of losing this election is gone...

[vi5]

I fooled myself in 2000, and then in 20002, and then once the Iraq war started, into thinking, O.K. the repubs got their way. Once they fall on their face people will see what they're made of and what their policies do to the country and will then keep them out of office for as long as possible after that.

I said this when Bush "beat" Gore in 2000. "Fine, let them screw up the country and take away our rights and see how people like it". They won't get much done in 4 years anyway and their screw ups will be enough to keep democrats in charge for the rest of my lifetime. Let's see their personal responsibility at work now". We all know how that turned out. They continued to blame the democratic Senate and the Clenis for everything that went wrong.

So fine....election 2K2 Republicans take everything. I say "So on the brightside, at least now they have nobody else to blame for all the shit that is about to hit the fan." Miracuously, they still continue to blame the political party which holds for all intents and purposes, no political power in this country.

Then when the war was starting I assumed if it went to shit (which any sane person knew it would) and if it was obvious that bush was lying that his ass would be so far out of office so fast at the first opportunity that his head would spin around at least 3 times. As we see based on current opinion numbers, people are in fact morons.

So now, given how close the race is I can't even imagine that on the off chance that he wins again, that there would be ANY brightside. The only uknown factor is exactly who they will find to pin the next 4 years of disasters on. But as history shows us, even that doesn't require actual facts or reality to happen. They could tell the country that the elusive liberal yeti minotaurs are responsible for all the things going wrong, and every single talking head on TV would be parroting the party line that once we get rid of the obstructionist liberal yeti minotaurs who are causing all the problems, that Bush can really get hopping on showing us what he's made of.

[crispini]

1. The bright side is that...

all of the activists who got involved in 2002...

and all of the activists who got involved in 2004...

and all of the FUTURE activists who WOULD get involved if GWB won...

would build us a Democratic party like no other.
I am one of the ones who only recently has gotten involved, but long-term Dems around here tell me repeatedly, "We've never seen anything like this. People are coming out of the woodwork to get involved."

[vi5]

3. And that IS reassuring to hear it, but still the fact is...

I thought the same thing after the past 3 instances I mentioned. And while it is good that Bush still has barely 50% of the political support in this country, it's nowhere near the groundswell of outrage and offense that it should be. Especially given the disasters of the past 4 years.

I guess I'm finally reaching the point where I'm in complete awe as to how he can have anything more than like 25% support in this country. But not only does he have that, he has more or less half the country.

[ulysses]

2. that's the point I've been trying to make

for some years concerning the DLC. No matter how toothless the Democratic party might become, no matter how out of power, no matter how many topics they might coopt from the GOP, the GOP will *always* blame them and the left in general. And they'll continue to get away with it as long as we let them.

[vi5]

4. Oh I don't buy into the whole "blame the DLC" routine....

The DLC could be on the attack 24-7 and it would still be the exact same situation. Our candidate could be a ferocious pit bull and they would still be pulling the same crap. The situation is so much more dire an huge than just the DLC or any democrats themselves.

[ulysses]

8. I didn't say it was all the DLCs fault,

but they've certainly had their part to play.

The DLC could be on the attack 24-7 and it would still be the exact same situation. Our candidate could be a ferocious pit bull and they would still be pulling the same crap.

Sure, but it only works because we don't fight back.

[Arugula Latte]

6. I think some on the left and middle

finally realize that we need a systematic rebuilding from the ground up like the 'thugs have done for years. We need the think tanks, the funding, the media outlets, the media training, the buzzwords, the reshaping of the language, the reframing of the issues, the single-minded unity -- but in the mirror image of the wingnuts. Then we will crush them into powder.

[Awsi Dooger]

16. All that is true and long overdue, but

Mostly we need a superior candidate.

Buzzwords, reshaping of the language, reframing the issues. Those are virtually one in the same, factors that can overcome our think tank and media disadvantages, and 100% the responsibility of the nominee. Does anyone doubt a JFK or Bill Clinton would have ended this election already? Gore and Kerry would have made/will make superior presidents, but neither located a trump card simplistic campaign theme and we lose the sound byte war almost daily. When you're always on the defensive and using 27 words when 2 will do, like Tucker Carlson said today, it influences likeability ratings and almost everything else, as evidenced by poll categories where Bush insanely rates above Kerry in public opinion.

When we lost so many governorships, down to 18 at one point I believe, it drained our presidential talent pool considerably. The GOP has a current president who was governor of a key state, his brother is potentially the 2008 nominee from another vital state, and supposedly Pataki is considering running as well. Our only governor who ran this cycle was from Vermont.

Find a Tom Brady and it's amazing what a cureall that can be, and how many geniuses sprout from his entourage.

And yeah, losing royally sucks. I doubt I would have the energy to leave my home or even turn on a computer for at least a week.

[shoopnyc123]

5. The new Vanity Fair has a "what if" article...

...and, while unthinkable at this point, the article brings up some salient points regarding if Bush wins. Also a fab article on the 2000 election that is, well incredible. No website, you have to purchase, ($4.50).

[VOX]

12. Thanks for the heads-up on this, shoopnyc123...

I will hunt it down at the newsstand down the block from me.

Appreciate the word. :toast:

[LisaL]

7. Sometimes it's just bad all around

without a silver lining.

[Warren DeMontague]

9. What you neglected to factor in

Was a media concentrated in fewer and fewer corporate hands, openly shilling for Bush and the GOP, and presenting a wholly distorted view of reality to an American public in a perpetual half-sentient stupor.

[VOX]

11. This is at the heart of the problem, IMO...

You've got just a handful of sources for **all** outgoing information, and it is being seriously filtered in ways that favor corporate profit.

A perfect example of this situation was this morning, when Jimmy Carter was sounding a warning about Florida's voting situation. I saw this on BBC, but I could not locate this story in **one** major U.S. outlet, except the NY Times, several hours later.

The insidious thing about the media is the fear that they contintually foment, to keep viewers hooked. So they stay hooked, all the while being spoon-fed the administration talking points.

This has to change. Has to.

[mvd]

10. It's so frustrating

because voters continue to have the misperceptions that Bush is a great leader and that Kerry isn't strong! If that's not evidence that we have a conservative-leaning mainstream media, I don't know what is. At least it looks like they can't take away the debates. I believe that if God forbid Bush wins, that people will realize, but will it be too late?

[patdem]

13. For the 1st time in American history it will be an emigrant country

vs an immigrant country. More people will leave than will come for the first time in the history of America. That will be another proof that bush* is the worst pResedient ever in the history of America! :grr:

[MatrixEscape]

14. Don't let it get you down ...

Sorry if this is common knowledge and if I generalize too much. My understanding of how we got here is ...

Since the Nixon debacle, the Repubs have been using a lot of money to build a powerful machine. That's a long time, and the momentum of that well financed machine is what we are experiencing today.

Then there is the the courting of the religious Right. That faction has been dutifully running for local offices, from the roots on up. They have been faithfully voting in every election. I think the bone that was thrown to them is the general idea, subtle or obvious, that they may get the chance to impose Theocracy on the country, in the end.

So, you have the corporate media serving primarily now as a propaganda tool for what I can only call a Neocon agenda. I mean, show me all this "liberal media" amongst the major players!

If you look into the "tax cuts", and what has happened with the "death tax", dividend taxes, etc., you might surmise that this was the payoff for the good job done so far by the major players. That's hardly ideology there, more like bottom-line for the wealthy.

So we mix the ideology of the religious with the financial motivations of the rich and powerful, add the time-factor, and there you have it.

The optimism I find is that a sleeping giant may be ready to awaken, despite the above! There may be far too many Liberal/Progressive/Democrats who resigned from the political system because they saw the process as "lessor or two evils" game. Or perhaps, just too much apathy set in for various reasons.

Now, the issues are starting to matter to more people and they are collectively opening their eyes, stretching, and smelling the strong coffee that has been brewed. Independent media is opening a portal to the information being ignored or selectively presented in a biased way by what now is seen as a suspect mass media that is risking its credibility more and more because their reporting does not seem to reflect facts found elsewhere.

Word of mouth and circle-of-influence communication is old-fashioned, but it is a great way to help counter the biased media barrage – especially for those who do not have Net access or know where to find accurate and fair news today. I don't think anyone should underestimate their personal communications because, as this sleeping giant rises, the numbers grow tremendously.

This is starting to look more like a class struggle in the sense that the most important issues to those with the least are so easily being ignored and obscured by the Right. The major warning sign is that the Right, and its media conglomerates, has managed to convince, nay, hoodwink, people who have neither money or privilege, into unquestioning support for an agenda that does not serve them, overall.

Keep in mind that there are intelligent Conservatives and Republicans who see through the sham and don't feel that they are well-represented at this stage.


Sorry for the long monologue ...

[vi5]

17. That's what kills me. The disaffected "liberals"...

If they don't realize after 4 years of Bush what is at stake, and if that doesn't inspire them to re-enter the system then there is I fear, no hope.

[Placebo]

15. One upside would be...

:yourock: HILLARY CLINTON IN 2008!!! :yourock:

First female president.