Fox News will exclusively film the first debate (Thursday)

[Eric J in MN]

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/28/politics/campaign/28debate.html?adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1096344523-TX3oaSJ1vRSe8VTIv+05HA

Paul Schur, a spokesman for the Fox News Channel, which is telecasting the first debate on Thursday for the major news networks planning to carry it, said, "Because of journalistic standards, we're not going to follow outside restrictions."
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I'm expecting Bush to have halo lighting and Kerry to be in the shadows.

[cheshire]

1. so will c-span I don't want Faux talking over Kerry but listening to *.

[Eric J in MN]

3. The NY Times article implies taht Fox News will film it for everyone

which would include C-Span.

[cheshire]

12. That is BS I don't believe others would allow that. I can see the angles

and lighting, all the little ways of slanting things. God the camera will be tilted to the right.

[Newsjock]

2. Shouldn't this have been a negotiating point?

How was this allowed to happen? I'd say "unbelievable," but I'm too tired of one more unbelieveable outrage after another.

[Eric J in MN]

5. It's incredible to me that Vernon Jordan agreed to this (nt)

nt

[EST]

26. You may want to see my post below. (#24)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=909182&mesg_id=909482&page=

[mazzarro]

28. DLC type state of mind pervades the whole democratic leadership:

Which is that our leadership must be supine and cooperative with the party in power. We must play fair even in the face of the other side playing nasty because we don't want the independents and moderates and 'undecided' to be upset with the democratic party! PUREEEE BULL----!

That Vernon Jordan and the Kerry campaign agreed to these rules, leaves me dumbfounded. I am particularly incensed with the rule that candidates CANNOT ask questions of each other. The most obvious way of showing the Chimp as the dumb fool that he is. And we let it go!

[high density]

4. So Fox News controls the cameras...

Does this really matter? I suppose they could aim the cameras at the ceiling when Kerry is talking, but that would be a bit obvious.

[Eric J in MN]

7. They can give Bush halo lighting and put Kerry in shadows (nt)

nt

[Rose Siding]

33. The advantages they allow Bush will be so subtle, that WE may not notice

but they will make an impact. This is their business, and we know their goals. Is now the right time to start trusting them to be fair or balanced?

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

6. You mean no one else can have their camera crews there?

Well fuck a duck.

Is it going to be shown on CSPAN? I am SO not watching FUX News.

[Eric J in MN]

8. I'm sure C-Span will broadcast it, but may carry the Fox News feed (nt)

nt

[ogradda]

9. and this was agreed to?

unbelievable. i cant believe this i'm gonna google it.

[boilerman10]

10. If Fox has it exclusively...I'm not watching, period.

[TheWebHead]

11. this is so fucked up

If Fox controls the cameras, then they'll get a huge ratings jump for people wanting to see what the other networks can't see --- even people outside of their republican base... Then they'll get sucked into the pre and post debate talking heads bashing Kerry and declaring Bush the winner no matter what happens.

[BlueJazz]

13. Ladies And GentleMen:

FOX NEWS Presents Tonight:

THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.......&j.kerry

[secular_warrior]

14. LOL. ".. the PRESIDENT and his challenger Sen. Jean.. uh that's

John Kerry."


Democrats still haven't figured out that trusting FOX news to be fair is no better than trusting Al-Jazeera. Democrats only lend credibility to the GOP's feaux news channel by agreeing to "play ball" with them. Democrats should REFUSE to deal with FOX news in any way shape or form. Jordan should've never never never agreed to this.

[Melodybe]

15. Keep this article kicked, we need to know more

[shivaji]

16. Jordan had no choice....it was either this or no debates

[BlueJazz]

17. Yep...I would have Loved to have seen.....

...a "High up" in the Kerry campaign just come right out and say:
"Sorry Fox but you've shown, in the past, that you're anything but Fair and Balanced and quiet frankly, we have decided to only deal with respected Journalists"

[secular_warrior]

18. Yes -- at least put up a fight

so that if through negotiation FOX gets to do it anyway, FOX would know that we have our eye on them. It would keep them ON GUARD and much less likely to pull some bullshit.

[Katha]

23. LOL!

Fox News Presents:

The Greatest President And Human Being To Ever Exist On This Planet!!!!!!!

oh, and whosiface, too.

[Thrill]

19. DAMN even our Dem lawyers

have no backbone.

[KharmaTrain]

20. It's Pool Coverage

All this means is there'll be a Faux clown running the cameras, but there will be others sitting right in that control room...the DNC always has someone to "oversee" such things.

The networks are rotated or chosen "at random" (and IMHO it'd make no difference which network runs the equipment)...to handle the demand for all the various broadcast outlets that will carry some or all of the debate...this also includes PBS, BBC and anyone else.

I suspect C-SPAN will have remote cameras floating around...they're a great place to watch the debates as you'll see the audience come in, the initial "prep" and then go into the spin room.

The problem won't be the debate, it's the "analysis" afterwards. Be prepared for the worst.

[indyjones1938]

22. dnc?

The DNC is useless, totally useless. Will Donna ("Karl Rove is my best friend") Brazile be monitoring the cameras?

The Bush camp set exorbitantly high demands for the debates and negotiated down to what they really wanted. The Kerry camp started with what they wanted and negotiated down to nothing. Our guy Vernon Jordan even went out to the bar with Baker when the negotiations were done, just like old chums having a few drinks. It's like our team doesn't even care about winning. To them it's just a gentleman's game of chess.

As far as Fox's feed, the secret is in the camera angles.

The puppet media has already set the foundation for Bush's "win" by spreading the "style is more important than substance" meme. The NYT/ABC are running a story headlined "It Takes Style to Win Debates: Hair, Gestures, Smiles all Count." How disgusting is that? But it's too late to correct that now. The sheeple are now focusing on style: they'll look for the cute one-liners, 5-word answers, swaggers, smirks and smiles, who has the best hair, better posture and most attractive jewelry. The media is even commenting favorably on Bush's fancy french cuffs and gold cufflinks. :puke:

Now it's up to the cameramen to go for Kerry's jugular. They will shoot mostly from the floor up to negate Kerry's height advantage, and take as many side profile shots of Bush as possible. These side shots ooze power and strength to the sheeple (look at our coins - all the presidents have side profiles). Bush of course will be all "folksy" and "good ol' regular guy," so the sheeple will interpret him as a "common man with uncommon strength." :grr:

The media "analysis" (aka spin) will just be the icing on the cake. By this time the sheeple will be drooling over themselves at this display of "strength" and "steadiness" and "likeability" by their beloved chimp-in-chief. The Blitzer-Tweety-Brokaw-Hannity spin will be like hunters firing off their arrows at a wounded animal.

Didn't have to be this way, but again, the DNC surrogates are asleep at the wheel. Jordan should've gone into those negotiations in full combat gear ready to fight to the death for what Kerry wanted. He should've set demands exorbitantly high and then negotiated down. Instead he was more anxious to head off to the goddamn martini bar with Baker. :puke: :grr: :grr: :nuke:

[KharmaTrain]

25. They Know Kerry Needed The Debates...

It's the usual Democrat hopes...scoring big on the debates. Only Kennedy & Clinton mastered the "game" that's played here, and I see such a stacked deck against Kerry that there's almost no way he comes out looking good in the "MSM".

When Kerry came out calling for a debate a week (c'mon, it sounded silly to us die-hard partisans) the "aim to the debate" game was on again. The hope is Bunnypants stumbles or lets loose with some massive lie (don't worry, he'll do both and get away with both)...and Kerry does a "Weld"...showing full command and ready to ride some massive wave of popularity. My hopes are this happens but I am too much of a realist to keep pipedreaming.

Baker beat Jordan big time. I think Jordan got spooked when his name started popping up on the headlines...and of course the inevitable "Monica" reference. Thin skins in the DNC prevail.

I'm not gonna go into the subliminal stuff about camera angles and positioning...people are going to tune in to see what they want to see. The few undecideds (and if someone is that torn at this late point, they will only judge on surface, not nuance) will mean precious little if the media emphasizes the negatives of Kerry...which they will, and no one will fight back.

[Eric J in MN]

29. If Fox News was chosen at random, it's a great conicidence that

the most pro-Republican network was chosen to film the first debate over CBS, NBC, ABC, and CNN.

Yeah, maybe it's just a 1 in 5 chance, but still.

[theoceansnerves]

21. i don't believe this will apply to cspan

they always seem to have their own cameras and microphones.

[EST]

24. I don't see from the NYT article

Anywhere they said "exclusive"

I must be missing something. I've read NYT article several times and I see that Fox will be running cameras and a feed that's available to others, but that does not preclude other cameras.

There may well be many other cameras, and the moderators insist on running it their way, but will probably accomodate the wishes of the negotiating teams to a great degree. We need the full memo and the agreement, which apparently many of the newsies have had in their posession for some time. I'll do a little tracking.

On edit-the above may be wrong-still investigating. Friggin lousy NYT writers.

After reading through a lot of swill, I still haven't come up with an actual copy of the agreement, however, for those who are angry about the agreement giving everything away to Bush, this may have been a much bigger victory for Kerry than noticeable at first blush. With this apparent giveaway, we're all pissed at Kerry, and Bushes supporters are crowing about fucking Kerry. This is exactly the position Kerry needs to be in-automatic underdog and not too swift. Looks to me like Kerry's already won the first round.

[mtnester]

27. Oh..REAL fair and balanced nt

[rullery]

30. Look for Fox to supply Kerry with an old, tinny microphone.

Some of us are old enough to remember such microphones. Younger folks may remember the song "Winchester Cathedral", which was deliberately filtered through such a microphone, for the sound effect. If they do this, Kerry is going to sound as though he is speaking from the next room. Whatever they do, I doubt if Kerry is going to get an even shake from these guys.

[BlueJazz]

31. Kick

[AntiCoup2K4]

32. DLC pussies strike again

This isn't a debate, it's a joint press conference for PNAC and the DLC :grr: