Pub Report 2: Iraq, taxes, protests, and Iraq

[LittleClarkie]

Went to the pub a couple of days ago, and forgot to cover the Kerry button that never leaves my chest. I will not take it off, but out of respect for the wishes of the owner (who says "no politics on my watch!") I put a Goose Island Honker Ale cap over it, with the words "Vote the Goose 2004" written in. But, like I said, I forgot to switch my usual button for the Goose, and so ended up in a political discussion with the regulars.

Conservative to Libertarian is the general bend amongst these guys. One claimed he was as far right as it was possible to get. Not if he's Libertarian, I countered. If any part of you is liberal at all, then you ain't as far right as you can get. I find Libertarians a bit easier to take, actually. Shows a bit more thought than your average Repub. Mostly, along this vein, we talked about how they didn't think they should have to pay for things that had nothing to do with them through taxation. I should have asked them about corporate welfare, but didn't think of it.

We talked about the tactics happening on both sides during this election year. One took offense that Kerry called some megaphone speech disrupters "Republican thugs." I mentioned that I didn't like thugish behavior no matter what side it was on. One esp. took offense at the term "REPUBLICAN thugs," emphasis his. "Yeah, well, I'm pretty sure they weren't Democrats fella. What's yer point?" I asked. Didn't get a proper answer.

More than one regular brought up the picture of the crying girl at the Edwards rally at this point, as an example of Democrat thuggery. I told them that if you look at a picture of the guy's family, you will see the "Democrat thug" is his son, and that this person has a history of showing up at Democrat events and getting attacked. What a coincidence eh. Fell on deaf ears I'm afraid, even though I also pointed out that most of the crowd in the picture looked horrified.

One guy said simply, "All I know is I saw a picture of a crying kid." "And all I know is that I saw a picture of a Gold Star mom being arrested for daring to speak out at a Bush rally." We went back and forth for a moment.

He got tired of me countering his moral indignation with my own, and so went back to the thug statement at that point. "Apparently Republicans aren't allowed to protest without being called "thugs", but Democrats can." Who said that," I asked. "Nobody, I'm just sayin'..." Huh?

We ended with a discussion of Kerry's Iraq stance, with one of the regulars saying that Kerry was advocating things that Bush was already doing. the Iraq Coalition, with me agreeing with Kerry that it was rather lame, and him saying that most of the coalitions we'd been involved with were lop-sided, with us taking the brunt of the action. He used Korea as an example. I said I'd have to check that out (not up on history I'm afraid.) But the coalition of the first Iraq war was strong, I countered, and most of the cost of the war was paid by the other nations in that war. He ended the discussion by claiming that NATO was being called in to Iraq. Once again, he repeated the claim that Bush is already doing what Kerry suggested.

First I'd heard of it actually. When was this announced? Sounded like one of those announcements that Bush makes for political purposes that he has little intention of following through with in more than a token fashion.

This guy has also said said on occasion that he would never forgive Kerry for what he did after the war, even though he also doesn't like Bush for not being a fiscal conservative like his buddy Reagan. That came up again too. I said "I'm not asking you to forgive him. Just vote for him." No dice. At least this person isn't like the other chicken hawks in the bar, in that he conceeds that Kerry served honorably, even though he got mealy-mouthed about it and started to talk about whether the circumstances of some of the medals were weak. For the most part, he said his problem with Kerry came after Kerry came back, and not with his service. I appreciated that, and so shook his hand.

All in all, a frustrating evening. Such is life in Bush Country for a little ol' me.

[TrogL]

1. Lopsided coalitions?

Weren't you guys kinda late showing up for WW II?

How many troops did you have in Bosnia?

[LittleClarkie]

2. And

where were you when I was having this discussion. That what I needed!

As much as I'm trying to inform myself, I've got a knowledge deficit. Working on it though.

[shraby]

3. Stick around a while, you'll be up to snuff

quick.