Rank the Candianness of our 5 major political parties.

[Zell in Hell]

1. NDP (Self-explanatory.)

2. Green (some right-wing policies make them questionable, but their social liberalism and unwillingness to surrender to American interests earns them a lot of respect in my eyes.)

3. Bloc Quebecois (More Canadian than either the Fiberals or the CONservatives sadly, both of which have been co-opted by big business American interests.)

4. Fiberals (Martin pulls a Henri Petain in dealing with the Bush administration. Can't be trusted because they're an all-ideology power cult.)

5. CONservatives (The Con stands for neo-con. :-P)

[Joel]

1. Canadian

Conservatives are no more right wing than a right leaning Democrat. (Some exceptions are obvious, but on the whole we're not much different than the other parties)

We want lower taxes and a better military. That's about all we'd ad. We'd limit spending increases in all areas except health and military. That's not particularly un-Canadian. Pro-choicers are taking over the party and even the farthest to the right in the party are ok with civil unions.

[Spazito]

2. The faux "New Conservatives" want to privatize healthcare...

and want a bigger military not a better one.

[Joel]

3. No we do not want private health care.

No we do not want private health care. Liberals and NDPers claim we do because we're scary, evil, and eat babies.


What exactly is wrong with a bigger military? Does making it bigger mean we can't also make it better? We need more people to do the work we're committed to. I don't think most Canadians understand this so I'll say it again WE CAN'T MEET OUR CURRENT COMMITMENTS WITHOUT ADDING TROOPS!


Our military exists to fight in a war. Not to police Iraqi streets or shovel snow. God forbid we ever have to fight a war that's what they're there for. Would you send your brother or son to war in an Iltus jeep? How about a Sea King? Or in a forest uniform to Afghanistan?

[CHIMO]

4. I Presume You Are Using The Royal "We"

As the alliance/conservatives have not yet had a convention.
Once that has occurred then I would accept your intentions of what the party stands for, proposes and how to reach that objective. Until then I would refer the Conservative objectives to those of Joe Clark and David O.

Unless your name is Flanagan.

[Spazito]

5. And where does it say our troops are for war???

Who are we going to go to war against? The only country that has ever attacked us is the US and you want Canada to build a bigger military for that?

We are known as peace-keepers for a reason.

The faux Reform/Alliance/New Conservative party only changes it's name to try and fool the public, it's policies are still the same.

Privatize everything, tax cuts to the rich, gosh, that sounds like another party we all know, the repubs from the States.

[Mother Jones]

7. Here here Spazito!!!

Yep, that sounds about right to me....don't forget how insignificant the environment is to Cons.

By the way, they changed the name because it finally dawned on them that Progressive-Conservative was an oxymoron.


Oh and Joel, just an fyi - Paul Martin didn't scare the crap out of me regarding Cons, Stephen Harper did that all on his own!

[iverglas]

6. just curious

Would you describe yourself, apparently a member or at least a supporter of the Conservative Party of Canada, as a "liberal", a "progressive" or a "Democrat"? We can discount that last one, so that leaves two.

You might prefer to describe yourself as a red Tory -- and that, I'd call left of a right-leaning Democrat, of course, and said right-leaning Democrat would probably call "communist". ;)

Like I said, just curious.

[Joel]

8. I'm

Definitely a red Tory. I don't deny we've got our share of crazies just like the NDP. I’m leery of supporting the party completely because, as has been mentioned, we don’t have a constitution yet. It is however becoming clear to some of our less realistic members that unless they give up the Pro-life thing we can’t win. I expect the new party constitution will say we’re a pro-choice party, but respect the right of individual members to disagree with that outside of politics. (If it doesn’t I’m trading my Tory blue for Liberal red the next day)

As much as the merge was played as an Alliance take over it was really the folding of the PC Party west of Manitoba and the folding of the Alliance east of Ontario.

As for the poster I assume is a NDPer that said we want to privatize everything: WE WILL NOT PRIVATIZE HEALTH CARE. WE WILL NOT AXE THE CBC. The Alliance far right nut jobs are even onside with that. Stop fear-mongering.

[iverglas]

9. then it's the grand old Tory tradition

of self-in-the-foot shooting. If a party did not propose to privatize health care, gut the CBC, and do all manner of other evil things ... why the hell would it elect Stephen Harper as its leader?

I can't think of a reason in the world why a red Tory would have stuck around this bunch.

And the fact that your direction of defection would be the Liberal Party, and not the NDP, suggests that your pinkness isn't the true pinko-ness of the red Tory; that red was never of the Liberal variety. It wasn't Martinite backroom boy Richard Mahoney whom Flora MacDonald was supporting in the last election -- it was Ed.

And as Ed said:

http://www.edbroadbent.ca/en/abouted/why.htm

Today, outside the NDP, the commitment to equality of citizenship has virtually disappeared – particularly since 1993, both in rhetoric and in substance. At one time there was a key social democratic component to the Liberal Party (1) and a “red” Toryism in the Progressive Conservative Party (2). Today social democrats are non-existent in the Liberal Party, and the PCs have now morphed into the mean-spirited Alliance.

1. Marchand, Pelletier, Le Blanc, Bégin, Allmand, Axworthy
2. Stanfield, Flora MacDonald, David MacDonald, Gordon Fairweather

Commitment to equality of citizenship isn't something I've noticed in your party much.

[iverglas]

10. oh, and by the way, really ...

"I don't deny we've got our share of crazies just like the NDP."

Did you have someone specific in mind? Maybe someone who's been saying hideously offensive things about racial or religious or sexual minorities lately?


"As for the poster I assume is a NDPer that said we want to privatize everything: WE WILL NOT PRIVATIZE HEALTH CARE. WE WILL NOT AXE THE CBC."

Yeah. And John Turner wouldn't have signed the FTA, and Chrétien killed the GST. Some people will just believe anything, eh?

[Joel]

12. well...

why the hell would it elect Stephen Harper as its leader?

Stephen Harper speaks French. That's why he won. When Bernard Lord takes over after the next election(we'll lose again) you wont be able to dig up position papers on health care written by a bitter economist (who I never really liked).

I can't think of a reason in the world why a red Tory would have stuck around this bunch.

I "stuck with this bunch" because I don't think we should regulate prices in every industry and privatize every business under the sun. I believe that a man or woman should not be discourage from achieving more than just average by crippling taxes to pay for uneconomical programs dreamed up by socialists. The national debt is not dads’ credit card. We should pay more than the interest and we should never add to it unless we enter into a depression or a war in which we under direct threat (ie not Iraq or Afghanistan. Something on the scale of WWI or WWII).

Commitment to equality of citizenship isn't something I've noticed in your party much.

Commitment to the equity of citizens? WTF is that supposed to mean. If you’re accusing the entire party of being racist than you have some serious issues.

Did you have someone specific in mind?

Perhaps the anti free trade wing of Dave Barrett and the like doesn't qualify as a crazy to you, but it does to me.

Yeah. And John Turner wouldn't have signed the FTA, and Chrétien killed the GST.

Sense when are Turner and Chrétien Conservatives?

Harper is an extremist, like bush

Harper is many things, but a fascist moron he is not.

[Spazito]

11. ROFL! You assume wrong, I am a Liberal...

and, yes, your leader is very much on privatization of health care as is the province he lives in! Harper is an extremist, like bush, that is trying to pretend to be a "compassionate conservative" and that would last only until he won the PM post, that will NEVER happen, thank goodness!

If, as you say, the faux Conservative party will go pro-choice, be prepared to have a split, a new party start up and we Liberals will win yet again because a split in the conservative ranks benefits us so I hope you are right, please vote for pro-choice!