Cameron - Middle east chaos is our fault

[Hopeless Romantic]

Britain and the US have contributed to instability in the Middle East by supporting autocratic regimes that suppress human rights, David Cameron has said.

The Prime Minister said that popular uprisings now flaring across the Middle East showed the West had been wrong to support dictators and oppressive regimes.

Speaking to the Kuwaiti Parliament, Mr Cameron said Britain would back democracy campaigners seeking greater rights across the Middle East.

"History is sweeping through your neighbourhood," he said. "Not as a result of force and violence, but by people seeking their rights, and in the vast majority of cases doing so peacefully and bravely."
Britain and other Western countries supported Hosni Mubarak, ousted by protests in Egypt. They have also backed authoritarian regimes in the Gulf region, making few efforts to push allies towards democratic reform.

That approach was wrong and counter-productive, Mr Cameron said.

more...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/david-cameron/8340068/David-Cameron-Britain-has-contributed-to-Middle-East-instability-by-backing-autocratic-regimes.html

[muriel_volestrangler]

1. And then went on to flog them some arms and riot police equipment

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Politics/David-Cameron-Gives-Speech-In-Kuwait-Prime-Minister-Feels-Cautious-Optimism-For-Middle-East/Article/201102415938356?lpos=Politics_Top_Stories_Header_1&lid=ARTICLE_15938356_David_Cameron_Gives_Speech_In_Kuwait%3A_Prime_Minister_Feels_Cautious_Optimism_For_Middle_East

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/cameron-attacked-for-egypt-visit-with-defence-sales-team-in-tow-2221695.html

[Jeneral2885]

2. Logic in this

So does that mean that former British colonies in East Asia (where the UK supporteed the big one party leaders) will be the UK's fault too--if there are demonstrations there?

Second, while the support of autocratic regimes is wrong, isolation is neither the case. Would the UK not support China or Pakistan for example? Those countries can be classified as regimes too and yet are important economically (well China only) and strategically.

Third, so if you want "democratic" countries (ahm, which western country is fully democratic?), tht doesnt not mean you stick your nose/finger everywhere and call for human rights (British Human Rights abuses since 1945) democracy (if there is a democracy the views of the minority still should be heard) or open market reforms (neoliberalism which has damaged the globe)

[LeftishBrit]

3. Hmm?

Well, I agree that we should not be bringing 'human rights' to other countries in precisely the way we did to Iraq!

However, there's a big difference between not invading or bombing a country, and selling arms to its leaders!

And international pressure can work. Amnesty International is campaigning against global arms sales to places like Libya. I've posted a petition if anyone wants to sign it.

Britain has been altogether too cosy with Gaddafi, and other dictators.

And, while it is true that few Western countries are *perfect* democracies, I'd much rather live/ have lived even in Bush's America or Berlusconi's Italy than in Gaddafi's Libya.

[Jeneral2885]

4. Well

The logic does run all the time, the UK sold arms to Argentina--did it cut off the arms sales after the Falklands? Same with Iraq in the 1980s--it killed its own citizens and I don't recall any stopping of UK fighter trainers or European weapon systems (Saddam's weapons were half from Europe) It's not all the time whne every nation creates artocities will outside nations cut off arms sales. Moral conscience has no start or end point.

And what's bad about living in Libya? In western countries, its not like deomcracy has advnaced human welfare and rights better off than in non-democracies. Pick China as another example. It's a regime, autocratic. But it cares for its people by investing in green technology.

[LeftishBrit]

5. Human welfare and rights are not particularly good in most non-democracies...

e.g. China has near-apartheid between urban and rural citizens, and rural people in particular do not live well at all. 'Green technology', though admirable, is not *all* that there is to human welfare.

'what's bad about living in Libya?'

Ask thousands of people who are risking their lives right now to oppose the regime!

[Spider Jerusalem]

6. If you want to go to the root of the problem...

it's the fault of France and the UK, and the continuing fallout of the fall of the Ottoman Empire. France and Britain between them carved up the former Ottoman dominions into various protectorates, mandates, and new territories (see the Sykes-Picot Agreement of 1916), and created a lot of long-term problems by drawing arbitrary lines around tribal groups that fucking hate each other (because of centuries of tribal warfare, because of the Sunni/Shia schism, etc) and saying (for instance) "right then, this is Iraq, your country now, chaps, have at it and good luck!"

And in more recent times, yes, the fault of Western governments, partly, because of making the calculation that a brutal, repressive regime that the West can do business with and count on to keep radical Islam in check was better than the alternative (because Arab democracy might take forms that the West is not comfortable with).