I have been silent for days now, maybe even weeks, I was so

[texpatriot2004]

nervous about Jan. 6th. It was like watching a scary movie and covering your eyes and ears at the scariest part because you just can't look, only you can't NOT look either. You know, you brace yourself and hold on...

I'm baffled by those who stood up to say there were problems on Nov. 2nd and still voted to certify for *! I didn't know what to expect. I am very grateful to those who had the courage to stand up and take action. Still, now it seems like there is this air of that's it. I know there are two legal actions pending. Thank goodness.

What's next? What can we expect? I had so hoped that they would object to the certification. That somehow Kerry would end up where he rightfully belongs. I have been a faithful Kerry supporter since a week or so after he conceded but now my faith is wavering. It seems he is only interested in "election reform" for the future. Maybe I am wrong, I really hope so. Perhaps it's just a moment of weakness on my part.

Thing is, this is the hardest place I have ever found myself in. I am sure others here can relate. What to do? Flee? Fight? How? Where to start? It's a jumble of ideas, mixed emotions, chaos - inside as it is outside. I will not abide another four years. That I know. I may be willing to give it one year...tops.

Where do you draw the line? At what point do you say, "enough is enough"! When do you stop allowing the abuse and take a stand? How bad does it have to get? I understand after say, March, this government will pass another part of the Patriot Act which will make peaceful gathering in protest ILLEGAL. What then?

Can anyone else here relate?

[seabeyond]

1. look at all we have to do in texas

we had election fraud in southern texas.
we have delay to get
we are a people of religion and church power. we can use this in speaking morality adn christianity in talking to our representitives adn senators. we know the talk. our dems have problems from what i am hearing. we need to get into our dem party

what area are you in

[texpatriot2004]

3. I am in Houston, how about you? n/t

[seabeyond]

5. now this is cool. i know we have some in houston

i am way up in the panhandle in texas. adn our state senator is from this area connected to oil and the bush in a way. also i have lawyers in elpaso.

i really do feel we need to get the dem moving in texas

[texpatriot2004]

8. By "some" you mean Democrats? n/t

[LittleClarkie]

10. That's a good place to start

That's where I will start, locally. Is that's what's known as grassroots? Work up from there.

Trying to get Kerry in the White House after November 3rd was something of a false hope. I got what I wanted on January 6th, which was a wider audience for the fraud. Don't distract from fighting for election reform by letting people call you a kook for trying to flip the election.

Kerry probably has some clue as to what happened to him. Even so, he's being pragmatic. Better to fight for what you can get, rather than fight for the near impossible, fail miserably, and be a non-entity afterward with no teeth. A non-entity perceived by some as being noble and pure, but a non-entity nonetheless. Gored. God bless him for the fight, esp. as close as it was, but Gore-d nonetheless.

We especially did NOT need Kerry out front. Then the whole thing would be dismissed as sour grapes rather than a major failing of the system, which is what it was.

The Republicans would rather a Kerry with no teeth. As Kerry says, they'd rather we all go away. Let's not go away. He's not going away. He's in the Middle East, preparing to fight first by info gathering. To poopoo his efforts as campaigning is shooting us in the foot. I don't care why he might be doing something if it gets results in the long run. I want results, not ideological purity.

I'm going to contact my local Dem Party, and see if they have any ideas. In fact, just before they shut down the mailing list, the organizers of Kerry HQ Milwaukee sent out an email thanking us and giving us a hotline number to call to contact the Dems in Madison. I think I shall use it.

[texpatriot2004]

14. LittleClarkie, who is the "wider audience"? Just curious? n/t

[LittleClarkie]

22. I guess I'm mostly referring to media attention at all

I think we got more coverage for the election on Jan 6th. Considering how many don't even seem to realize there's a problem, any coverage that doesn't make us look like a bunch of nutjobs is a good thing.

But that's a good question. Who is the wider audience? Other Dems who bought the idea that the election was fair? Concerned folk who may not have the time to be news junkies like us? I don't have much hope for Joe Sixpack.

Hell, I heard from a teacher friend last night who hated the Sec. of Education (he quoted the guy, something about considering the teacher's union to be terrorists?) and is glad he's going, and who also says that No Child Left Behind is terrible, and yet voted for Bush.

What's the matter with Kansas, indeed? I shall add him to the gay Bush-voting Starbucks barista.

[merh]

24. Who is the wider audience?

My opinion is congress was the audience. Yes, we got media attention, not as much as I would like, but we got some and we are still getting it. More importantly, we got congress' attention. Do you think for one minute a senator would have stood with Conyers if we, and when I say "we" I mean all on DU and other like forums, the activists, had not deluged congress with emails, faxes, letters, telephone calls demanding that they pay attention to us? Good heavens, if it had not been for us, the vote would have been certified immediately and everyone would have gone about their merry ways negotiating and begging for committee seats.

The media called us "conspiracy theorists" and dissidents, they blew us off, made it sound like we were kooks and there were no problems with the election except maybe some minor glitches and some long lines for voters. We did not need the media, we got congress' attention despite the media's (rove's) attempts to down play the problems and their efforts to ignore us.

We did that, we were heard for god's sake. We screamed and we got their attention and we were not ignored. The most important audience we needed was congress' attention. We scared the hell out of them, we jammed their switchboards and we made them pay attention to us. In turn, we got more media attention and just a little more respect. They recognized our grass roots activism and they paid attention.

That was some mighty big steps to take, but they are not the only steps we need to take. We have so much more to do, we cannot allow them to ignore us any more and if we stay focused and organized, they will not.

Yes, involvement in our local and state governments is essential. We need to get dems elected as Secretary of States and Attorney Generals, not to break the law the way Blackwell has, but to oversee and operate honest and fair election systems. When the matter of voting equipment comes up in our states we need to pay attention and demand that paper ballots are the norm and not some "waste of paper" that is obsolete. You see, that is why congress is able to poopoo the election problems, it is up to states to operate their elections. Well, we need to make sure our states conduct fair and honest elections, thus we need to have Secretary of States that we can trust. We need to have honest Board of Elections or Election Commissions and we need to pay attention to the folks being elected to those offices or we need to run for those offices. We need Attorney Generals and District Attorneys that we can go to and say, "hey, we think they violated the law" and know that the allegations will be investigated and prosecuted.

There is so much we can do. We cannot remain silent, we must act and we must take responsibly at home. How dare we demand our elected officials to be responsible when we are not? Do you know what the repugs have done over the last 10 years or so to get a strangle hold on the issues and the grass roots movements. They have infiltrated and now control the majority of the Chambers of Commerce, the Kiwanis, the Elks, the Rotary Clubs, the Knights of Columbus and similar organizations. At those meetings they spew the repuke agendas, they serve the kool aid and they secure their base.

We were able to get an audience, but their our other audiences that need our attention.

Never give up. NEVER!

[saracat]

32. What did I miss Merh? I didn't see ANY Msm

coverage of the contest! I heard rumours of MSMBC but CBS did a blackout. There was Nothing on CNN and abc did 10 seconds! WHAT coverage????

[seito]

33. It was covered on Countdown

It was covered in several newspapers. As far as the corporate media whores, we have to take the crumbs the drop for us.

We have got to launch an organized effort to regain a voice in the televised media.

[merh]

34. Television is not the only MSM

plenty of newspapers have covered it. MSNBC/Newsweek had a great article on it.

The important audience, congress paid attention to the issue.

Maybe we should start a thread collecting the coverage.

[GetTheRightVote]

2. I say enough is enough, let the Dems go they are infected by the Repubs

virus and there does not appear to be a vaccine for them.

They are weak and can not lead us especially Kerry, stick a
knife in your back canidate. I like Edwards better atleast
he wanted to fight back for us. The political machine which
runs this country includes both of these parties and they're
no good for the left wing party members. Time to move on,
to another city beyond DemCity.

:mad:

[blm]

4. If the ONLY thing that comes is a transparent electoral voting system then

that would be a huge victory for this nation. Think what the future would be like without any focus on the electoral process. That is why Jan.6, really was a great day. It was a giant step towards shining a light on the rigged system.

If the Democrats don't pursue this as a priority issue, THEN I will lose faith. But, I really feel that last Thursday set the base for a real investigation and reform. And I believe Conyers, Tubbs-Jones, Boxer and others set that goal on Jan.6. I do believe everyone played their parts exactly as needed.

[hijinx87]

6. the right of the people to peaceably assemble is guaranteed

in the bill of rights.

[texpatriot2004]

7. Well it was, until they finish with the Patriot Act. They are already

infringing on our rights, the last part of the Patriot Act will seal the deal for them...against us.

[bush_is_wacko]

9. Write thank you letters and letters of outrage to all of those that

Spoke. I have compiled a list of all those that spoke out against and have written them all a scathing letter.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x270236

Another poster has posted all those that spoke for us. I have the list saved to disk, but if you look under some of the Boxer and Tubbs-Jones threads you should be able to find it.

I feel so much better having done this. In Colorado citizen initiatives have been getting things done for years. California and Oregon do things in a similar manner. Next is election reform and preventing * from getting his hands on our SS for profit. The information provided in that 102 page document is now in the proper hands. We will have to wait and see what they choose to do with it. In the meantime, if you can handle it, more information could be found and handed over to the proper people. Conyers, Clinton. Kennedy, Tubbs-Jones, Boxer will probably still appreciate any smokers citizens can come up with.

[LittleClarkie]

13. If I can get up the gumption

I'm going to write every Democrat in the Senate and let them know I have their back.

The House is more daunting.

[bush_is_wacko]

16. Yeah, I'm still working on the House list of thank you notes,

but I will get it done within the week I imagine. Even though snail mail takes an average of about 2 weeks to get through. I would love to see the looks on their faces when mail by the truckload is delivered to their offices! both the supporters and the dissenters should be amazed by the volume of emails faxes and letters that they are getting. That is the way to make a difference.

[bleever]

11. Hiya tex! Pay us a visit over here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=270782&mesg_id=270782

And, never give up.

:hi:

[texpatriot2004]

18. Nice to see you Bleever, I did visit your other thread,

actually I had visited it before but I didn't have the words then.

I will never give up!

[mdb]

12. Good question I've wondered myself.

Where do you draw the line? At what point do you say, "enough is enough"! When do you stop allowing the abuse and take a stand? How bad does it have to get?

I've come up with more or less wondering about why it is people will riot in the streets if the Red Sox lose or win a game. Maybe if Kerry and Bush had a ball game together and one lost. I don't know.

[flyarm]

15. alot here in fla I-4 coridor..

are changing their registration to independant..to send a message..if large blocks do it..it surely will wake some dems up..or scare them crapless...its meant to send a message...that we are not happy with the dnc!
i don't know if thats valuable...and i dont think i owuld go that far...but we need to do something to let the dems know we are dang unhappy with snafu!!

fly

[texpatriot2004]

21. That's a good idea, unfortunately, in Texas we don't register

by party. Which is too bad because I really would like to send a huge group message to them now.

[texpatriot2004]

20. Yeah, if it were a ball game, or sporting event people would

not only attend, they would be informed...passionate, etc.

Good point.

[SueZhope]

17. texpatriot2004 Thank you for your post.

Your questions are good ones.
I don't have the answers but know that your not alone ,many of us
I think are trying find answers to those questions.

Politics is not simply , so many levels and motivations for why people do what they do.
Sometimes its baffling. (thats why for years i hid my head in the sand)

Hold onto your ideals you will find the answers you seek.
Please dont give up or go to Canada .OK? :)

[texpatriot2004]

19. Thanks for your post SueZhope, Your last line made me smile.

I won't give up. NGU like Class Warrior says.

Go to Canada? Hmmm? Well, it's not likely. A blue state perhaps. A blue city perhaps. I can't imagine actually leaving America. Although I thought your intuition quite keen as lately I do flirt with getting the hell out of dodge. You know, not contributing to the delinquency of this government with tax dollars, etc. Ireland seems nice. #1 place to live in the world I read. I have ancestors who came from there, maybe I could go back now? Someone said something about writing a note to England like a run-away coming home. It was a joke of course, kind of funny.

[SueZhope]

25. keep in mind

the grass is always greener in Ireland .LOL No were is perfect.
There is hope for the USA ... There are to many great SANE people here willing to fight
against the evil doers. I also believe that sooner or later every dog has its day.
truth shall come....(hopefully in this lifetime)

it must not be easy living in Texas.... There must be many others with like minds there.
just harder to find. I'm in the blue zone yet I still worry and cry for the injustice and insanity.

Sometimes we all need some time to regroup and figure things out...
maybe last weeks fat lady sung but there are new fish to fry , new hope on the horizon. John Kerry he is but human , he is not perfect. its hard when we see a hero in someone and perhaps they are not who they seemed to be or who we hoped them to be.

In the game of politics its hard to know what is wise and what is foolish until latter down
the road when we look back.

No matter what wacko stuff goes on in the USA and the world we can still find hope and make a difference.

Class Warrior is correct NGU
and i don't think your the type to give up
if you were you would not be sharing this....:)

[Lurker321]

29. You are aware, of course, that

United States is one of the few countries in the world that require, by law, that expats (that is, US citizens living outside of the US) pay US federal income tax. You get a bit of a "foreign income exclusion" - I believe the latest was up to $80,000, but on anything over that you have to pay US income taxes.

[Peace Patriot]

23. "It seems he is only interested in 'election reform' for the future."

This is the part I don't get. Over the last four years, after getting cheated of victory in 2000, the Democratic leadership (including Kerry) participated in setting up an election system in which they will never win the presidency or the Congress again, ever.

The election system is so blatantly non-transparent, and so blatantly in the control of partisan rightwing Republican Bush donors (I mean, secret source code running all the vote tabulation, held as proprietary by the likes of Wally O'Dell! Come on!)--you have to wonder about the Democrats' SANITY.

True, some few fought the BushCons on a few things, paper trail, for instance--and they got blockaded by Tom Delay (BushCons had to keep vote counting behind the curtain.)

Why then didn't the Democrats exit Congress en masse, hold a press conference, and tell the country, " We will not return to Congress until the Republican Party guarantees the country transparent elections. Until that day, this is no longer a democracy."

Or something like that. Why wasn't it a CAMPAIGN issue? Why did they not issue one word of warning to the voters?

Are they so blind? Are they so corrupt? Are they so stupid? Are they so insane?

It's beyond me to understand this. I DON'T understand this. And until I do--and all of us do--we have to be VERY WARY of what the Democratic leadership says that it is going to do about election reform. (We already know what they have to say about the Election Fraud 2004--"Get over it." Very truthful and inspiring.) (Not.)

I think we have ONE CHANCE left to restore democracy. We must retrieve our right to vote. And we must do it LOCALLY, state by state, county by county, while we still have the power.

Best solution:

a) paper ballot

b) hand counts

or at least

a) 1st count paper receipt in electronic voting (voter verified paper receipt that takes precedence over electronic results in any recount)

b) open source code!

and c) honest exit polls to check for fraud (as they do everywhere else in the free world).

We CAN do this. We are the majority. And most people would agree with it. It's an easy sell. But we don't have much time, and Congress is NOT GOING TO HELP. (Mark my words--the Dems do not have the power to push it through, and most of them don't have the guts to do what is necessary if BushCons blockade it again--f.i., denounce them as a fascist coup.)

So that's MY hit on where we're at (our democracy is hanging by a thread) and a plan of action (recover our right to vote NOW, or it's all over).

Let's get at it--and put off the kind of questions that you asking until we have made this one last citizen effort.

[zalinda]

28. I think I got it!

Wow, what a rush. Now, to explain it. Just about everyone who talks about Iraqi democracy (that isn't a * supporter)says, "You can't give democracy with a gun, the people have to grab it). Isn't that what is happening now, with us? Aren't we grabbing back our democracy? It IS up to us, if we want it, we have to work for it. All we need is some what of a co-ordinated effort.

First step, reform election processes.........from federal on down.

zalinda

[marcologico]

26. Call or write to Hastert and Frist and ask politely for investigations

into voting irregularities in the 2004 elections. Nothing fancy.

Frist:
http://frist.senate.gov/index.cfm?FuseAction=AboutSenatorFrist.ContactForm

Hastert:
http://www.house.gov/hastert/contact.shtml

It took me awhile to figure out the logic but it's a good plan and the best thing you can do right now. If you send an email off their webpages they'll send you back a nice little note!

[marcologico]

27. fixed the link n/t

[candice]

30. I intend to send a letter to both and mention that if 1 in 5 voters

questions the outcome of this election AND we have no paper trail, and the recount in Ohio wasn't conducted according to the laws of Ohio, and Ken Blackwell plays a dual role, how can the outcome of the 2004 Presidential election be known? For legitimacy's sake, we have to have a paper trail, non-partisans overseeing elections, an opportunity for all citizens to register to vote and then to vote in an expeditious manner, without trickery. I'm going to mention fair play, and how dissappointed I was in that the Republicans in Congress did not seem to support fair elections.

Urge both of these men to bring the bi-partisan bill to have a paper audit to the floor NOW. Tell them that the free world will be watching them.

[marcologico]

31. U ROCK!

:toast:

[JoMama49]

35. Texpatriot, I think we need to keep fighting. Here is a copy of

a letter I've sent out now to every repug. congressman/woman who spoke against investigating the fraud on 1/6. I've also sent it to Frist and Hastert, and now I'm getting ready to fax it to all repugs and cc it to all democrats as well. Please feel free to cut, paste or crib from my letter. I think we need to shame these folks into doing what is correct and just! I hope this helps to make you feel stronger, less helpless and more motivated to stay and fight!


January 9, 2005 FAXED TO: 202-225-3529


Dear Congresswoman Pryce:

Please let me know if I have this correctly:

1.You don’t care that Blacks, other minorities and poor folks in Ohio and other States were denied the right to vote on November 2, 2004?

2. You don’t think allocating too few voting machines in poor, minority voting districts is just as racist as what happened to Blacks when they tried to vote in 1964?

3. You think having a Secretary of State who is also the campaign manager of a major political party is somehow fair and non-partisan?

4. You don’t care that people in many States say they voted for one candidate on a touch screen machine, just to see the other candidate’s name come up on their summary of voting page? This doesn’t bother you?

5. You're okay with voting machines having no paper trails? It doesn't bother you that there's no way to verify that Bush actually won this election? The election is completely unverifiable? Are you kidding me?

6. It doesn’t bother you that poll records show more people voted for one candidate in some Ohio counties than were registered to vote?

7. You don’t want to find out why the Board of Elections in Warren County, Ohio was closed down and observers kicked out due to an alleged Level 10 terrorist threat during the counting of the votes in that County?

8. You believe that all of these allegations are a conspiracy theory started by Michael Moore or a fringe group? Really?

If any of my assumptions are incorrect, please let me know, because this is what I heard you and several of your Republican colleagues say after Congresswoman Tubbs-Jones and Senator Boxer challenged the Ohio electors last Thursday, 1/6/05.

If I'm wrong, please set me straight and tell me what you are planning to do about these problems? I request a personal answer to my letter, not a form letter or a letter that does not address the above issues. Thank you for responding to my concerns. I look forward to hearing from you soon.

Sincerely,

Jomama.

[texpatriot2004]

36. Thanks JoMama49 n/t