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Officials say "Trust Us" When Very Basis of American System is Distrust!!

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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 10:54 PM
Original message
Officials say "Trust Us" When Very Basis of American System is Distrust!!
Edited on Tue Feb-21-06 11:38 PM by Land Shark
According to Montesquieu:

Political liberty is to be found only in moderate governments.... It is present only when power is not abused, but it has eternally been observed that any man who has power is led to abuse it; he continues until he finds limits. Who would think it: Even virtue has need of limits. So that one cannot abuse power, power must check power by the arrangement of things.
--MONTESQUIEU, THE SPIRIT OF THE LAWS, bk. XI, ch. 4, at 155 (Anne M. Cohler et al. trans., Cambridge Univ. Press 1989); id. ch. 6, at 157

And, another observant quote for elections officials seemingly shocked at the notion of inside jobs as a primary threat to elections:

"Do not neglect during a period of administration by the virtuous to provide against succession by the incompetent or corrupt, for that time will come. Wise and just magistrates encourage us to relax our vigilance, but that is when it is most important to exercise strict safeguards."
— Jon Roland

Those of you too polite to tell the truth to elections officials (namely, that they have NO BUSINESS even asking for "trust" which is inappropriate in a system of checks and balances) you can use the quote above to flatter the current officials while still preparing for the possibility if not the overwhelming likelihood of future corruption given the temptation. And if these officials don't think the temptation is enormous, they **must not love their country enough** to realize how valuable and coveted controlling it would be.

Speaking of being "offended" by not being trusted: Imagine Congress getting all bent out of shape because the courts reserve the power to check the Congress's unconstitutional exercise of power with judicial review, by whiningly protesting: "But we in Congress would NEVER EVER EVER deign to pass an unconstitutional bill!! You should trust us!" When, Congressional history is replete with unconstitutional acts of Congress, some of which sit on the books still unreversed by the Courts, given the Courts' requirement for a proper "case or controversy" to be before the Courts before an issue can be ruled on.

When there is no power checking power, the Framers thought fraud and abuse inevitable, if not already present.

If the Framers had to choose between what are today being called tinfoil hatters and the Pollyanna election officials described in other previous posts, there's no doubt the Founders would fling off those Pilgrim hats and don the tinfoil, in a heartbeat, if that's what it really took (the "tinfoil" label is a gross distortion, however).

And here's the reason why they'd prefer the tinfoil, in an excerpted quote from a much longer law review article that I think is accessible and shows that the idea that trust has no part in our government has an enormous Constitutional validity and American resonance, and indeed the author below calls the Constitutional convention itself "a feast of distrust":

CARDOZO LAW REVIEW
REPRESENTATION AND NONDELEGATION:
BACK TO BASICS
Marci A. Hamilton*



The Framers assumed that every individual exercising power would be tempted to misuse that power either by underutilizing it or by using it overly aggressively.<13> At the same time, they expressed hope that their project of effecting a system of government would preserve liberty. This is what I have called elsewhere the Calvinist paradox of distrust and hope.<14>

Much, or even most, of what was said at the Constitutional Convention was couched in terms of distrust — distrust of the legislature, of the Executive, of the people, of power in general, of religion, of the states, of the large states, and of the small states.<15> It was a feast of distrust. Frankly, one can point to precious little in the intervening centuries that would prove their assumptions wrong.



Given that they trusted nobody and no particular social institution but still believed that they might craft a government geared toward liberty, the Framers’ debates focused on finding the appropriate balance of power.<17> The Framers believed that a balance of power was effected by pitting one social entity against another and by assigning different jobs to different branches. Their theory was that you could not trust either one alone but you might be able to trust both if they were working toward the common good in different and potentially conflicting ways.<19>

The Framers had come to fear the “excesses of democracy”<20> The two branches might then check each other and thus render the balance necessary to forestall tyranny.

END QUOTE ____________________________


Are our elections officials, in asking for trust or objecting to the implication that they should not be trusted or are not trusted, really the defenders of democracy, the "sentinels of democracy"? A real sentinel will rise to defend at the instant of a possible threat and summon reinforcements at the moment of a probable threat. In contrast, some elections officials seem to wish to be left alone with the *actual* threat and ability to modify an electronic election, unmolested by any power checking power.

If one is truly defending democracy, one does not wish to be ALONE at a point of technological election vulnerability (or election "opportunity") one wants company! And Lots of it!

Think of Paul Revere, if you like, have fun, feast on distrust as did the Framers, and defend democracy.

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FogerRox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. ASS kickin as allways-- KNR
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
2. Good to see you, my friend,doing what you do so well.
:toast:
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #2
47. Thanks, trying to get to the heart of the matter, more blood there 4 shark
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
3. K&R
Great post!!
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NVMojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
4. EXCELLENT POST, Land Shark. Now if only the Bush lovers
would learn to understand this.
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Oftentimes, the Bushlovers cite these distrust of govt principles more
than Dems. Paradox to the max. LIke some crazed moonshiner with shotgun trained at the distant opening in the trees, they seem ready to "defend America", but they'd let the Taliban buy Diebold and take over vote counting without a fight or a whimper of complaint.
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GuvWurld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. That's a funny image
I'd like to see a militia of * apologists whimpering complaints from the "free speech zone" at the Houston HQ of Taliban-owned Diebold.

:rofl:
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #6
16. Or let the UAE take over our port security...
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GuvWurld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
5. Brilliant.
Great work, LandShark. It's good to have you back on this board.

Can I post this in the GuvWurld News Archive? Is it already on another site I could link to?

Any reason I shouldn't send this to the Humboldt election manager whose resignation I've already called for repeatedly?

Are more DUers starting to get comfortable with the idea that it is not outlandish or inappropriate to call for resignation when an official acts as if s/he has legitimately derived power, knowing full well it isn't so? Politicians' credibility and legitimacy, going forward, can only come from their dedication to restoring a basis for voter confidence.

How do you know when someone is at that point where you should say they must go?

LandShark says it is as simple as receiving a request to be trusted.

I say people defending indefensible positions have only managed to do so by going unchallenged.

My original reason was the flat out denial of well documented problems and a defensive attitude about current election conditions. Anyone resigned to the status quo should resign their office and make room for someone determined to improve election conditions.

See The Resignation Frame.
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. LandShark posts FIRST on DU. (may don other personas elsewhere)
This is not posted elsewhere as of yet. Feel free to post with proper attribution.

Ask yourself the question: Does Someone REALLY *love* their country if they can't readily imagine someone else "wanting her" by illegitimate means, such as cheating in secret electronic vote counting? Let's all think clearly about this, or else America gets fucked.
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GuvWurld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Link to OP in GuvWurld Archive
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #8
17. Will you send it to Brad? This deserves to be on Bradblog.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
7. Yes, only those who know they plan to deceive say "trust me" and hide
Edited on Tue Feb-21-06 11:31 PM by Nothing Without Hope
their plans. Some more quotes:

The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in time of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality. -Dante Alighieri, poet (1265-1321)

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." - Edmund Burke

“To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men.” –Abraham Lincoln, 16th US president (1809-1865)

“Good intentions will always be pleaded for any assumption of power. The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions.” -- Daniel Webster

The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

What does it matter to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy? --Gandhi

...and, more precisely to the point:

"Secrecy, being an instrument of conspiracy, ought never to be the system of a regular government." --Jeremy Bentham, jurist and philosopher (1748-1832)

...and, for the Nazification of Germany:
“What happened was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to be governed by surprise, to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believe that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if people could understand it, it could not be released because of national security. ~ The crises and reforms (real reforms too) so occupied the people that they did not see the slow motion underneath, of the whole process of government growing remoter and remoter. ~ To live in the process is absolutely not to notice it — please try to believe me — unless one has a much greater degree of political awareness, acuity, than most of us ever had occasion to develop. Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, ‘regretted.’ ~ Believe me this is true. Each act, each occasion is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for one shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join you in resisting somehow. ~ Suddenly it all comes down, all at once. You see what you are, what you have done, or, more accurately, what you haven't done (for that was all that was required of most of us: that we did nothing) . . . You remember everything now, and your heart breaks. Too late. You are compromised beyond repair.”?-- A German professor describing the coming of fascism in They Thought They Were Free by Milton Mayer - posted at DU by Qibling Zero here: http://tinyurl.com/fyq7f
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Melissa G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 11:33 PM
Response to Original message
9. K&R for Checks and Balances! n/t
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AmBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
11. Land Shark hits it outta the park....
AGAIN!! Thanks for the inspiration. : )
:yourock:
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Thank you AmBlue, (and Guv and Hope and ya'll) cuz you inspire me
And there's a major offering coming up later this week. A real world litigation "motion to terminate" a particular well known vendor.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 12:12 AM
Response to Original message
14. Boiling it down to a brief soundbite--
Edited on Wed Feb-22-06 12:15 AM by eridani
Trust is the absolute antithesis of checks and balances, and as such has no place in any part of our government, particularly those parts of it responsible for tabulating votes.

My parents understood this concept very well. Whenever there was a piece of cake or pie left over to be divided between three kids, we drew straws. The short straw was assigned the task of cutting the cake, and the middle and long straws got first and second choice of the resulting pieces. You'd better believe that the cake-cutter did his or her level best to make the pieces of equal size.
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 12:35 AM
Response to Original message
15. Land Shark, were you born brilliant? Or did you come by it later? :) K & R
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GuvWurld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 01:45 AM
Response to Original message
18. On the CA Diebold situation
You know, when I first read the OP I immediately had an overall sense of applicability - it's just totally true. But an hour later, or whatever, and I just had this flash that of course this is part of the core response to the CA Diebold situation. McPherson, Diebold, and every damn registrar who thinks "good enough" is good enough as a standard for elections, they're all saying "trust us." We have been trying to say "NO" for a long time. Now the message evolves: YOU HAVE NO DAMN RIGHT TO ASK ME THAT.
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 02:52 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. You're darn tootin' they don't have right to ask.... (as dad would say) nt
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Febble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 03:15 AM
Response to Reply #18
23. Yes.
As a Brit, the thing that strikes me and my fellow Brits as odd about American elections (or at least first struck us in 2000) is that they are so damn approximate. "Good enough" only.

While hand-counted paper ballots are also perfectly good to steal elections with, one of their big advantages is that the actual process embodies the principle that every vote counts. Every UK vote deserves, and gets, individual scrutiny by a UK citizen.

The very least you guys deserve is ballots that could be scrutinized, even if they aren't. The very fact that anyone can consider that a vote that exists in electronic form only is "good enough" says something very terrible about the value they place on the principle of one-person-one-vote.

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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. Hmm. My uncle used to say "good enough for government work"
is this the negative connotation for "good enough" you intend above? I suspect it is.
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GuvWurld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. Exactly
Transparent, secure, and verifiably accurate. Nothing less is good enough. This ain't horseshoes or hand grenades.
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Febble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. Yes
Every vote must count, even in a "safe" seat/state. "Good enough" isn't good enough.
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #23
34. How exactly does every vote get scrutiny? What's the process?
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. The process......
I'd say paperless DRE's are soon to be history.

Voter Verified Paper Ballots will be required countrywide, soon, but not soon enough.

Anyway, eventually, we'll have paper ballots of one kind or another. The idea is that that paper CAN be audited. Our efforts, I believe, must turn to a form of citizen audits. In that light, I intend to, as I can afford to do so, hire a lawyer to take my case to a judge with the intent of swaying that judge to declare that I, as a citizen of the US, be free to examine, count and tabulate those VVPB under certain legally defined conditions.

I would hope the democratic party would do so before I must endure such a travail, but then maybe it will just be leading the party, eh?
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Febble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 03:07 AM
Response to Reply #34
43. Well, it's absurdly simple
We vote in "constituencies", at "polling stations" where we are given a ballot, and go into a plywood booth where there is a pencil (tied to the booth with string). We mark the ballot, fold it, and drop it into a ballot box.

At the end of the day, the ballot box is sealed, in the presence of witnesses, and taken to the constituency "count" - usually a school gym or town hall. When the boxes arrive, they are unsealed in the presence of witnesses, and emptied on to tables. Then each vote is picked up by a teller (they are usually bank tellers) and counted. So that is what I mean by individually scrutinised. But, in addition, bipartisan voluntary "scrutineers" walk around the tables to check everything is fair. And the whole thing is open to the public, who simply have to keep behind a rope barrier. There are also TV cameras at all the counts, as the result is declared at the count, after the candidates have agreed that the count was fair. If it is close, they do a full recount, and every single vote is counted again.

I'm sure the odd vote gets missed, or counted twice, or drops behind a radiator. But apart from that, every vote is individually handled by a teller.



&imgrefurl=http://politics.guardian.co.uk/election2005/gallery/0,15977,1471463,00.html&h=257&w=372&sz=24&tbnid=FogsXqoEWbrKaM:&tbnh=81&tbnw=118&hl=en&ei=RGz9Q8S5KqrmwQHUxPz9DQ&sig2=yxKgA3n9RCDS8hR0ZC8tBg&start=1&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dconstituency%2Bcount%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG">The Guardian
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-24-06 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #43
48. Now that is brilliant. ANd here we have people spending huge amounts of
time on all the ins and outs of trying to make machines secure...
how many races are on each ballot? the argument we always hear against hand counting is that we have too many races on one ballot.
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-24-06 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. If you had more volunteers, you could have each set of ballots
counted twice by two people, independent of knowing the results reached by the other counter. If they don't match, they do it over..... that would be a highly accurate system if one counter from party a and the other counter from party b and they aren't allowed to know the total the other got. Even if they were both of the same party, it would be hard to shave votes by the same amount, so even if the two independent counters were leaning the same way it would still tend to be reliable.

Perhaps a third party judge compares the tallies, and if they match they are stapled and then sent to the tabulation office (for mere addition purposes) and posted in the gym on the reader board so the public and parties can add them up themselves if they wish.
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #18
33. That's great, Guv. I remember Land Shark saying that once we reallly get
it they have NO RIGHT, we will be able to reclaim our democracy. I don't know if that's true - I hope so - but but I think we have to get to that place of saying you have no right to ask me to trust. Trust is irrelevant.
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Pooka Fey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 02:12 AM
Response to Original message
19. K&R
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rumpel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 03:00 AM
Response to Original message
21. Framed for McPherson and McCormack's office
oooh many more offices now come to mind that can be adorned...

:hi:
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nicknameless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 03:03 AM
Response to Original message
22. Pollyanna hasn't met the election officials in CA.
Many have Diebold (etc. e-voting companies) connections, have fought against election reform, and have proved themselves to be completely untrustworthy.

I'm keeping my tinfoil.


... K'ed & R'ed
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 04:17 AM
Response to Original message
24. Think of Patrick Henry also, four time governor of Virginia.
He was regarded as a radical prior to the revolution. Skilled in the art of politics, he passed bills objecting to British rule of the colonies, bills that could have resulted in his hanging. He didn't care. He said, "Give me liberty or give me death." What a concept...heard anyone say that lately.

Moderate governments are the source of political liberty because they're more concerned with pragmatic issues like how to benefit the nation and it's people. They want to know what works. Ideological governments know the truth and are convinced that only their truth works. Liberty is at a minimum since it deviates from the truth, a higher value to ideologues. Should elections meet that end, fine. If not...well... Moderate governments are interested in elections that work to determine public choice and maintain a public consensus. Ideological governments are focused in retaining power.

We're governed by ideologues. They control all three branches of government.

There is no moderate opposition to speak of, just moderate defense of our fundamental social welfare programs and whole scale abandonment of issues relating to our most fundamental rights in the political process, the ability to vote, be assured that our vote is counted and inspect the process ourselves or through proxies.

Lets be frank. The United States has experience numerous instances of election fraud since colonial times. We have scandals at the national, state, and local level. Those scandals are more extensive than we're taught but they are not hard to find with a little research.

What we're fighting for now is a strong guarantee of election integrity nationwide, a guarantee that has enforcement, inspection, and review along a commitment to access to the franchise by "the governed."

Asking for our rights is like asking for air to breathe. We should and we are demanding our rights. I really don't care if officials are upset or challenged by these demands. If they'd done even an adequate job and shown a commitment to improve when improvement is obviously needed, we would not be where we are now. They have not, our representatives have not. Now it's our turn to demand, insist, kick in the door to make sure every American has the right to vote and have that vote counted in a fully open and verifiable fashion. Otherwise, we're ruled by petty tyrants who won't even bother to demonstrate their legitimacy.

We DEMAND liberty and we DEMAND the right to assure that our voices are heard. That's it. The only reason we're loud and DEMANDING is the demonstrable failure of our elected officials and those they appoint to honor the requirements laid out in the Constitution and embodied in the Declaration of Independence.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #24
35. Indeed - Give me Liberty or give me death!
Or, we could say - Give me my vote or give me death!

Because, without our vote, we lose our liberties. Our vote is the basis of our liberty, otherwise we might as well be subjects of some distant king - an idea our forefathers wholeheartedly rejected, thereby placing themselves in grave and serious danger. It is only because they stood up and demanded a vote that we are the country that we are, or, were.

Now, it is our turn. Soldiers have died for our vote, yaknow?
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #35
39. We will die prematurely because of our lack of free & fair elections.
The success of filthy lies told by the faux scientists who propagate the notion that global warming might NOT be man made are in direct proportion to our ability to choose our government in free and fair elections.

The absence of free and fair elections is due to:

--racial discrimination in voting registration and voting access procedures by the states;

--voter suppression of minority voters once they've hurdled the discrimination barriers;

--election fraud specific to voting technology - hacking, malicious code, etc.

--election fraud specific to vote reporting methods;

--redistricting that takes away the incentive of people to vote;

--etc.

Time to change things, permanently.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
25. Bookmarked for later-off to audit Lucas.
Thanks Landshark!

:patriot:
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
27. "trust us" is the antithesis of accountability
"Never. Ever. Trust the state."
-- Noam Chomsky to Phil Donahue
http://www.iwtnews.com/videoplayer/phil_donahue
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #27
46. a good sound Bite, Land Shark wishes he woulda bit off and chewed
Edited on Thu Feb-23-06 09:07 AM by Land Shark
the "antithesis of accountability". Below are the top six google hits on this phrase, then I got tired of biting off more than I could chew. but in the top six hits, the following things are considered the antithesis of accountability, in no particular order:

1. Corruption
2. a new, duplicative bureaucracy
3. Private, secret talks
4. engaging in mindless behaviors that defy logic
5. fundraising without a clear specification of need and purpose
6. "special districts" for elections purposes

Here is a paragraph for each: what others have felt and said was the antithesis of accountability:

1. Countless people in organizations everywhere waste time and resources digging useless holes. Engaging in mindless behaviors that defy logic is the antithesis of accountability. Accountability means more than just doing your job. It includes an obligation to make things better, to pursue excellence, and to do things in ways that further the goals of the organization. If outmoded or wasteful tasks are part of your job description, it's your responsibility to do something about it. http://www.womensmedia.com/new/seminar-accountability.shtml

2. Eleven years after Goma, this remains the fall-back position for many NGOs and the UN system both as a crisis infolds, and in its aftermath: predict the worst, take even minor public health problems as indicative of a possible apocalypse to come, and continue in a fundraising mode that in effect says ‘we’re not quite sure what we’ll do with the money, but we’re good people with good intentions and we’ll think of something’. This is neither responsible nor wise. Yes, in the short term the public is engaged. In the long term, however, such a strategy – the antithesis of accountability in any serious sense, and the antithesis of any code of conduct worthy of the name – can only breed cynicism. http://www.odihpn.org/report.asp?ID=2711

3. Special districts are the antithesis of deomcracy. John-david Morgan Says: It’s also the antithesis of accountability. Milwaukee County has enough trouble holding facilities it owns—such as the Marcus Center for Performing Arts or the War Memorial—accountable when the bring in nonunion contractors. http://watchdogmilwaukee.com/blog/?p=108

4. This brings me to the second of the cross-cutting issues I mentioned earlier. Corruption is the antithesis of accountability and transparency, which form the subject matter of this Forum. Corruption is both a governance and a developmental issue. It impedes development and minimizes the ability of governments to reduce poverty. http://www.uneca.org/eca_resources/Speeches/amoako/98/accra2.htm

5. The number 1 and 2 points in the 15 point plan are as follows:
#01 - Attain & Retain Quality Educators & Administrators
#02 - Focus on Funding & Accountability
My points focus squarely on those two goals. And, of course, as always I view private secret talks as the very antithesis of accountability for the formation of public policy that is supposed to represent all interests. http://pdxcityclub.typepad.com/citizensblog/2005/06/chalkboards_k12.html

6. {South Carolina] critics maintain the proposed new statewide charter school district would create another statewide school bureaucracy. In addition to the state Department of Education, there would be a statewide charter school bureaucracy. “It’s creating a new school system that’s not accountable to the local needs,” said SC Sen. Phil Leventis, D-Sumter. “It’s the antithesis of accountability.” http://www.statehousereport.com/columns/05.0123.charter.htm










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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
29. Was tin-foil available during the time of the framers?
:D

:thumbsup:

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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
30. Excellent points Land Shark
I think that this misplaced trust is fostered by inertia and laziness.
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
32. Leading the way, as always. Thank you LS!
Recommended.


Peace.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
37. Trust them? No way, Landshark, no way, never.
The problem we have in this country is this:

We live in fear of our government.

That is so screwed up. The government should be in fear of the People! Any government employee should live in fear that the citizens don't trust them! The way our elections are now run is just the opposite!
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Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 09:58 PM
Response to Original message
38. Great post.
There is no place for trust when it comes to checks and balances.

"Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end...liberty is the only object which benefits all alike, and provokes no sincere opposition...The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to to govern. Every class is unfit to govern...Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." -- Lord Acton

Even if it had a place in the political system, this current cabal hasn't earned enough trust to collect my newspaper while I'm away.

K&R!
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. Lord Acton did have some things on the ball
though to be perfectly honest when some people realize that one only *needs* liberty to do things other people Oppose, there are a few people who, at that point, start to question the wisdom and necessity of Liberty. For them, Freedom and Liberty="proud to be an American"
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Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. Well, that's always the case
when a group wants control. Fear and misinformation will attract the weak.

War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.

Appeal to the basest fears. Release half-truths in doublespeak. Persecute thought-crime in the name of "security".

I believe the current situation is too big for the a lot of people to grasp. Born to believe in the military, born to believe the government is always the strong father figure and not the nurturing mother. It takes a lot of attention to detail to realize the government is criminal and lying to them. That happens other places, but could never happen here. Most people weren't even paying attention to anything until recently.

I often wonder what would have happened had it been the Second Amendment under scrutiny.
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #41
45. Yes, some have a more realistic chance of truly exercising 2nd Am
freedoms rather than 1st Am freedoms. To exercise the 1st, you've got to have something to say that others would like to stop (most specifically, that the govt would like to stop) and the urge to say it even at a cost to yourself (otherwise the issue would never come into the COURT, literally the only place where anything but voluntary compliance or noncompliance can take place).

It's a fundamental but woefully underappreciated point: the ONLY place your "rights" can actually be vindicated or enforced is in court, so if you can't make it to court (think: $$$) you basically don't have any rights. Unless you want to count as "rights" whatever compromise might occasionally happen after you scream or beg or complain.
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TexasLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 02:40 AM
Response to Original message
42. kick
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 04:33 AM
Response to Original message
44. .
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Amaryllis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-22-06 12:12 AM
Response to Original message
50. kick
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Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-05-06 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
51. Last night John Dean echoed the trust, not checks and balances idea
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