Which do you love: God or Mankind?

[catbert836]

Poll question: Which do you love: God or Mankind?

Inspired by this passage of Friedrich Nietzsche's Thus Spake Zarathustra:

"...Altered is Zarathustra; a child hath Zarathustra become; an awakened one is Zarathustra: what wilt thou do in the land of the sleepers?

As in the sea hast thou lived in solitude, and it hath borne thee up. Alas, wilt thou now go ashore? Alas, wilt thou again drag thy body thyself?"

Zarathustra answered: "I love mankind."

"Why," said the saint, "did I go into the forest and the desert? Was it not because I loved mankind far too well?"

"Now I love God: men, I do not love. Man is a thing far too imperfect for me. Love to man would be fatal to me... Go not to men, but stay in the forest! Why not be like me- a bear among bears, a bird amongst birds?"

"And what doeth the saint in the forest?" asked Zarathustra.

The saint answered: "I make hymns and sing them; and in making hymns I laugh and weep and mumble: thus do I praise God.

With singing, weeping, laughing and mumbling do I praise God who is my God. But what dost thou bring us as a gift?"

When Zarathustra had heard these words, he bowed to the saint and said: "What should I have to give to thee! Let me rather hurry hence lest I take aught away from thee!"- And thus they parted from one another, the old man and Zarathustra, laughing like schoolboys.

When Zarathustra was alone, however, he said to his heart: "Could it be possible! The old saint in the forest hath not yet heard of it, that God is dead!"

As a caveat: When Nietzsche said that God is dead, he did not mean a physical death of God, nor that any God had existed in the first place. What he meant, rather, is that the concept of God was incapable of acting as a source of morality for mankind any longer. If you wish to read more on the topic, please read this post which I made on the subject some time ago.

Which to you agree with, Zarathustra or the saint? Do you love mankind or God? Or both? Or neither? What are your reasons for your answer?

[Cleita]

1. I love mankind. We still don't know if God exists. n/t

[phaseolus]

2. "I love Mankind. It's people I can't stand."

... not an obscure quote if you're old like me ;)

[catbert836]

3. No, that makes sense.

To me at least. Besides Schulz, there have been many famous historical persons, such as Thaddeus Stevens, and literary ones, such as Ivan Karamazov, to express that sentiment.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

4. I can't answer your poll as written

in my belief system, there is only one Being, That Which is All. Humanity definately is a part of That. And so are all God concepts. And so is love-which may be the very framework upon all this that we recognize as reality is based.

Thank you, though, for emphasizing that Nietzsche was talking about God CONCEPTS. Actually, that is all anyone can talk about, for That is all concepts, and yet also beyond all concepts.

[catbert836]

5. I've added an "other" response

Thank you for reminding me of your particular belief system, and why you and others like you could not answer the poll.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

6. That was very kind of you!

I always like to vote in polls and add comments, and now I can do both. :)

[valerief]

7. I love the aliens who have been abducting me ever since I was a

little child. I even saw one once.

What? It's, like Jesus or Mohammed or Buddha or nothing? But what about my aliens? They do my Pap smears.

You Murkans are so particular.

[eallen]

8. No god has been found except in man's imagination.

[cosmik debris]

9. I love beer

and I imagine that beer is god.:-)

[eallen]

11. There you go, then. Drink to Zappa.

[natrat]

10. lets see-with species dropping off the face of the burning earth everyday

our time is obviously drawing to a close-the concept of love for humans that have done this to such a cool place or the idea that there is some benevolent god is utter and complete bullshit for weak fools to eat up. Now ask me if i love bird kind or fish kind or simian kind or even american indian kind from just 100 years ago and you get a different answer-humans suck along with there stupid superstitions-merry xmas

[TRYPHO]

12. I love my Kids

End of. And my wife, parents and siblings. But my total everything belongs to my loud, annoying, expensive, bound-to-get-worse, amazing, energetic, beautiful, intelligent, argumentative, lovely children.

If the rest of the planet blew up I dont think I'd care much, as long as they were alright.

I'm sure I'd miss you all, a bit, though.

God is on my list, between my Dad, and my sister probably.

TRYPHO

[Zebedeo]

13. I can't believe

that I am the only poster who loves God. Sad.

[cosmik debris]

14. Sad for you maybe, but not for everyone. n/t

[More Than A Feeling]

15. Doesn't the Bible feature this saying of Jesus:

"Love one another, as I have loved you"? By that standard, the correct answer would be the middle one: God and Mankind in equal amounts. Not the first one.

[TRYPHO]

17. Correct if you're a Christian possibly..

Otherwise who is He to say!

TRYPHO
(sorry - probably being a bit unnecessary there, forgive me for I have sinned)

[Zebedeo]

24. I disagree with your reasoning and your conclusion

Yes we should try to love one another, as Jesus has loved us. But we are not to love mankind as much as we love God.

Jesus said: "Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me." Matthew 10:37

That seems to me to be a definitive Biblical answer to the question in the poll.

Merry Christmas to you and yours!

[beam me up scottie]

27. A jealous god that demands one love him above all else is not worthy of love.

He's not even worthy of respect.

I've had boyfriends like that, I know what I'm talking about.

[TRYPHO]

18. I love God - but not as much as my wife and kids. Be real.

And who needs ME more, God or my family?

I'm hoping God wont need me for another 50 years or so!

TRYPHO

[catbert836]

20. You are the only poster

who loves God to the exclusion of Mankind. Not the only one who loves God.

[Zebedeo]

25. No, catbert836, you are twisting my words.

I never said that I don't love mankind. I do not love God to the exclusion of mankind. Rather, my response to the poll indicates that I love God more than I love mankind. I do love mankind, as well as God, but it is not "in equal amounts" or even close.

Jesus Himself said: "Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me." Matthew 10:37

To me, that is as definitive an answer to the poll as you can get.

Merry Christmas to you and yours!

[Evoman]

29. I like my family way more than Jesus...I think Jesus was too arrogant.

"Oh I'm the son of god, love me love me"

He leaves a bad taste in my mouth. If thats the emissary of god....jeesh *rolls his eyes*

[catbert836]

30. self-delete

[cosmik debris]

31. That's a pretty competitive god you've got there

Seems a bit insecure to me.

[Meshuga]

32. Yep

God has to actually go there and try to compete for the love of one's family. That's pretty insecure. I guess I don't fall for the guilt trip and choose to be worthy of my family instead of Christ.

[cosmik debris]

35. The Baby Jesus will torture you in Hell for that decision. n/t

:)

[Meshuga]

37. At least...

I'll be there with all my family and people I care for! Most interesting people are going to be there suffering with most of us for eternity.

Think of the people who are worthy of heaven and decide whether you really want to spend eternity with them! :scared:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

21. No, I put "both"

"You shall love God with all your heart and all your soul and all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself."

[Zebedeo]

26. Lydia, you are correct

that we are to love God with all our heart and all our soul and all our mind, and our neighbor as ourself. However, in my view, that does not mean that we are to love God and our neighbor in equal or nearly equal amounts - which is the answer to the poll question that it seems you gave.

Rather, Jesus taught: "Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me." Matthew 10:37

The only logical conclusion is that we are not to love ourself as much as we love God. We are to love our neighbor as we love ourself, but love God "more" - with all our heart and all our soul and all our mind.

A very Merry Christmas to you and yours on this blessed day.

[Evoman]

23. God didn't get me what I wanted for Christmas.

My girlfriend got me a better present than god did. My girlfriend gave me an Egyptian-style short sword, Futurama first season, and a book.

I'm still waiting for those lottery numbers god was supposed to give me.

[Odin2005]

40. Hard to love something that doesn't exist.

[Book Lover]

16. Are you familiar with Orwell's take on this question?

It is one I share. The below is taken from Orwell's Reflections on Ghandi:

Close friendships, Gandhi says, are dangerous, because "friends react on one another" and through loyalty to a friend one can be led into wrong-doing. This is unquestionably true. Moreover, if one is to love God, or to love humanity as a whole, one cannot give one's preference to any individual person. This again is true, and it marks the point at which the humanistic and the religious attitude cease to be reconcilable. To an ordinary human being, love means nothing if it does not mean loving some people more than others. The autobiography leaves it uncertain whether Gandhi behaved in an inconsiderate way to his wife and children, but at any rate it makes clear that on three occasions he was willing to let his wife or a child die rather than administer the animal food prescribed by the doctor. It is true that the threatened death never actually occurred, and also that Gandhi--with, one gathers, a good deal of moral pressure in the opposite direction--always gave the patient the choice of staying alive at the price of committing a sin: still, if the decision had been solely his own, he would have forbidden the animal food, whatever the risks might be. There must, he says, be some limit to what we will do in order to remain alive, and the limit is well on this side of chicken broth. This attitude is perhaps a noble one, but, in the sense which--I think--most people would give to the word, it is inhuman. The essence of being human is that one does not seek perfection, that one is sometimes willing to commit sins for the sake of loyalty, that one does not push asceticism to the point where it makes friendly intercourse impossible, and that one is prepared in the end to be defeated and broken up by life, which is the inevitable price of fastening one's love upon other human individuals. No doubt alcohol, tobacco, and so forth, are things that a saint must avoid, but sainthood is also a thing that human beings must avoid. There is an obvious retort to this, but one should be wary about making it. In this yogi-ridden age, it is too readily assumed that "non-attachment" is not only better than a full acceptance of earthly life, but that the ordinary man only rejects it because it is too difficult: in other words, that the average human being is a failed saint. It is doubtful whether this is true. Many people genuinely do not wish to be saints, and it is probable that some who achieve or aspire to sainthood have never felt much temptation to be human beings. If one could follow it to its psychological roots, one would, I believe, find that the main motive for "non-attachment" is a desire to escape from the pain of living, and above all from love, which, sexual or non-sexual, is hard work. But it is not necessary here to argue whether the other-worldly or the humanistic ideal is "higher". The point is that they are incompatible. One must choose between God and Man, and all "radicals" and "progressives", from the mildest Liberal to the most extreme Anarchist, have in effect chosen Man.

http://www.george-orwell.org/Reflections_of_Ghandi/0.html


on edit: formatting

[Meshuga]

19. You can't love God

If you don't love humankind.

[Meshuga]

33. To expand on it...

TO LOVE GOD truly, one must love people. If anyone tells you that he loves God and does not love his fellow humans, you will know that s/he is lying. -- this is something I found in the Reform Jewish prayer book and I am paraphrasing it.

[Crunchy Frog]

34. I disagree.

If one believes in some sort of God, but as an embodiment of the creative forces of the universe, rather than the Biblical God, it is quite possible that one might think a great deal of the grandeur of the universe, but not be that impressed with humanity.

I'm kind of in that camp myself.

[Meshuga]

36. I'm kind of...

...in the same camp as you. Most of the time I have a hard time believing in God as personal deity and I tend to believe in God as a process. I definitely do not believe in the "Biblical God" especially when you start studying how scripture was written and all of its motives.

BTW I don't mean to say that I am "impressed with humanity". Instead, I'm saying that in the sense of caring for humanity.

[SidDithers]

22. Maybe in order to understand mankind...

we have to look at the word itself: "Mankind". Basically, it's made up of two separate words - "mank" and "ind". What do these words mean? It's a mystery, and that's why so is mankind. - Jack Handey

Wisdom from Jack :)

Sid

[FedUpWithIt All]

28. I think we are one but not the same...

I believe each is part and yet independent of the other. I love both as the parts that make up the whole.

[cosmik debris]

38. This reminds me of the story of King Lear

He asked his three daughters to tell him how much they loved him. Two daughters piled on the BS while one daughter said that she loved him the way a daughter should love a father. The rest of the play is about how hard it was for Lear to realize that the third daughter had the best answer.

It applies here to those who see the god relationship as a Father-son/daughter relationship. So cut the bullshit 'cause god read Shakespeare too.

[cain_7777]

39. Both are a plague

[Odin2005]

41. Mankind.