‘Blasphemy Challenge’ lures kids to renounce Holy Spirit;

[The Straight Story]

CULTURE DIGEST: ‘Blasphemy Challenge’ lures kids to renounce Holy Spirit
Feb 14, 2007
By Erin Roach
Baptist Press

NASHVILLE, Tenn. (BP)--A radical new website is gaining popularity by challenging people to deny the existence of God, and it’s run by an atheist who was raised Catholic and claims he “became a born-again Christian when he was 13.”

“I loved Jesus and he was my best friend and I talked to him and God all the time,” Brian Fleming said on ABC’s “Nightline” Jan. 30. “I have to admit that they never talked back to me, and I think some people would say that God does talk to them and I think they’re not being honest with themselves.”

Now a dejected Fleming is part of the “Rational Response Squad,” which is behind the website www.blasphemychallenge.com and promises to give away 1,001 copies of a DVD espousing their views.

“There's only one catch: We want your soul,” the site says. “It's simple. You record a short message damning yourself to Hell, you upload it to YouTube, and then the Rational Response Squad will send you a free The God Who Wasn't There DVD. It's that easy.”

Somewhere in the video, the person must say the phrase “I deny the Holy Spirit.” The website explains that the phrase is required because Mark 3:29 says, “Whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin.”

http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?ID=24966

That's just freakin sick.

[LeftyMom]

1. No, the point is saying that one is past superstition.

If saying "I deny the holy spirit" is any harder for you than saying "I deny the easter bunny" or "there's no such thing as Vishnu" you're still, to some degree, a believer.

[Phredicles]

6. I consider myself an agnostic, but I guess I'm not completely past

superstition: Someone saying they want my soul gives me the heebie-jeebies.

[Az]

14. They don't believe in souls

That is the point. They are beyond belief of such things. There is no threat in it for those that take the challenge. They do not believe in God, the Bible, or souls. All are ficticious creations.

There is a similar event that the skeptic community holds every once in a while. Whenever a friday the thirteenth rolls around the skeptic community will host a supersticion party. At this party they allow people to break mirrors, walk under ladders, covort with black cats who are walking around, and violate all sorts of supersticions taboos. This atheist challenge is meant in the same way. It is confronting what they believe to be an ancient belief that should be challenged.

[LeftyMom]

32. What's a soul? Has anybody proven they exist?

Asking for my soul is like asking for my Jetsons flying car, you're more than welcome to it if it makes you happy, because it doesn't exist.

[loudestchick]

35. At least they're not asking for my liver...that exists...and I'm still using it.

Local radio heretics gave people the opportunity to do this on the air...they didn't give away presents because they didn't want ot be seen as "encouraging" people to do it. Whatever.


Superstition-free since 1984. No soul to worry about...just the earth and all her inhabitants (current and future).

[Dorian Gray]

63. Bart Simpson said the same thing

and sold his soul to Millhouse. It wasn't pretty.

[Meshuga]

65. Funny that same episode come right to mind

when I was reading the these posts yesterday. :-)

[Dorian Gray]

67. Because it's a great episode!

:)

[Ezlivin]

2. What great fun! Challenging invisible super beings!

As a former pastor and seminary graduate I give this two thumbs up.

Fight for your right to think for yourself!

[Az]

3. Why do you think it is sick?

It is not a call for people who believe in God to renounce him. This is an exorcise in atheists standing up and making people aware of them. Do you think atheists are sick?

[The Straight Story]

5. It isn't?

"challenging people to deny the existence of God" - it would not be challenging people to do something if they already believed that way.

Good to see an outreach program I guess...

[ieoeja]

9. Is it sick to ask people to accept Jesus as their Lord and Saviour?

The only difference is that Atheism is not Politically Correct.

[Az]

10. This project has been going on for quite some time

Its a bit silly in my opinion but it does raise awareness that there are atheists all over the place. We tend to blend into the background unless the issue comes up. And this causes people to tend to run over our rights and beliefs as they do not think we exist (I have met people that did not believe atheists existed).

Its a very simple challenge. The point of it is for those who do not believe in God to demonstrate their convictions by blaspeming the Holy Spirit. The reason for this is that the bible is quite clear that if you do this there can be no salvation. There is no forgiveness for such an act. It is of course selfcontradictory with what Jesus teaches but hey.

Many theists seem to think that atheism is just some fad or rebellion. This challenge is an attempt to make it clear that it is a very real position and that we are not going away. All other minority groups find causes and ideas that they rally around. Some of them may seem silly or worse to outsiders. But they are points of pride within such communities.

[Meshuga]

51. It looks more like "rebellion" than "awareness" to me

"Its a bit silly in my opinion but it does raise awareness that there are atheists all over the place. We tend to blend into the background unless the issue comes up. And this causes people to tend to run over our rights and beliefs as they do not think we exist (I have met people that did not believe atheists existed)."

I find this odd, perhaps because I grew up in New Jersey and live in Maryland (DC metro area) but I have friends and have been around atheists all my life. I see atheists at work, I see them in my circle of friends, I saw them when I went to college, I've been around them all my life. They do exist. Perhaps in other parts of the country this is different which brings the necessity of awareness that atheist do exist.

"Many theists seem to think that atheism is just some fad or rebellion. "

This project is not helping clear that misunderstanding because a "blasphemy challenge" looks more like rebellion than it looks like an attempt of "awareness to atheism". I think it would be more effective to use this energy to build and heavily promote an organization that educates others on the problems and prejudices that atheists face here in America.

[Az]

52. Oh I agree with your assesment

I am just trying to relate the intent of those who established this challenge. I have been active in groups where they were active as well. And they are in the vein of confrontational atheists. They believe that by highlighting the issues that are illogical in believers positions they will win people over. They come off as strident and angry. In fact they drive not only theists away but many atheists that would rather find common ground and understanding between atheists and theists.

[Meshuga]

60. I see what you are saying

I also agree with you that this effort drives theists away. Many theists would sympathize with atheists if they were aware of all the crap atheists have to deal with. Like I said, I have always lived in blue country (NJ and DC metro) and where atheists seem to be comfortable being atheists. At least in my experience.

But I was not aware of problems in other parts of the country and that even here in Maryland, atheists were not allowed to run for public office until this law was changed recently. I was made aware of these issues here in DU, believe it or not.

By finding common ground I believe most liberal theists would support atheist in trying to end any type of discrimination and injustice atheist might suffer.

[Dorian Gray]

66. It sounds like we had similar upbringings, Mr. Wiggles.

I grew up in New Jersey. I've lived in Boston, Hong Kong, London, and now New York City. Even at my Jesuit University (Boston College) there were many atheists. It was never something that people objected to or would be surprised by, but Boston was the most Catholic of places that I lived. All the other cities, nobody batted an eye, no matter what faith you were or weren't. It's truly a non-issue. I work in the non-profit sector now, and I come across people of all stripes.

Because of that, it's easy to forget that things aren't similar everywhere else in the country. It's easy to take life in the Northeast for granted, assuming that people in the South, Midwest, etc. will treat everyone the same as they do here.

[Meshuga]

68. Catholics

I don't see catholics hung up on what others believe or don't believe. I have also lived in Rio de Janeiro which is located in a huge catholic country (there is even a huge Jesus statue on top of a mountain you can see from all over the city to remind all of that fact) but being non-catholic, non-christian, non-theist was a non-issue.

My Rabbi became really good friends with a catholic priest (a fellow part-time chaplain at a government institution) and this priest was fired from this institution for speaking out against new policies that discriminates against minority religions. Recently, this institution found bogus reasons to fire my Rabbi as well since he testified in favor of this catholic priest.

The Catholic Church does not have a clean record as far as tolerance but my perception is that now, in general, they have their act together as far as tolerance of other beliefs or non-belief goes.

[Dorian Gray]

69. They are hit and miss.

We have some priests/cardinals/bishops who are great, and we have some who are travesties. But, because of the huge immigrant populations, Catholics in the USA are quite liberal. It's not the same everywhere, and for every Martin Sheen, there is a Sean Hannity these days. But, social justice is big in a lot of Catholic based charities, and many nuns that I know involved in charities deal with practicalities (teenage pregnancy, homelessness, etc.) in a realistic way, rather than falling upon doctrinal issues as an excuse not to act.

As for the firings of your Rabbi and his friend, the priest, sadly, things like that can be all too common. One of the charities that I deal with is the NYC based Healthcare Chaplaincy. It's an awesome interfaith organization that provides spiritual chaplaincy to the ill in NYC area hospitals. They also raise money for the hospitals, and they are not limited to faith based patients, either. I know the director pretty well. He's a Jesuit priest. The board is comprised of people from all faiths. It's an interesting partnership. Rabbis, Imams, Unitarian ministers, Priests (Catholic, Episcopalian, etc.)

But, I'm blathering off topic. :)

[twilight_sailing]

11. "lures kids"?

There's your tip off right there.

The piece you quoted in your OP is pure propaganda.

[jilln]

12. That quote is from the journalist, not the Web site.

[Warren DeMontague]

33. Yeah, and there's no need for gays to come out of the closet, either.

Since the world is such a welcoming fucking place for them as it is.

"Sick"? I guess you can't grasp why it might be empowering for some atheists to do this sort of thing.

[Dorian Gray]

64. That's how I took it too...

then I wondered if Az might not be right. Either way, I wouldn't participate, and I suspect the only people who would are non-believers. I guess it's a sort of empowerment exercise?

[muriel_volestrangler]

49. An "exorcise"? Your freudian slip is showing (n/t)

[Az]

50. Teehee

I caught that myself but decided to leave it in.

[Ian David]

4. I dare you to look in the mirror and say "Candyman" three times! Muhahahaha!

I think this is BRILLIANT!

[TallahasseeGrannie]

53. I thought it was Bloody Mary

and you had to twirl around three times.

[Goblinmonger]

58. Good to see you.

I was just thinking about shooting you an email. Hope all is well.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

62. Thank you

Much better, even doing a lot of walking to get things strengthened. Love my new Crocs!

[MADem]

7. It reminds me of a stupid horror movie, where, if you say the magic words three times

then something BAAAAAAD happens...the evil genie is released, or someone turns into a monster, or something.

But hey, this is "Anna Nicole" newsworthy--especially with all of those YouTube videos!!

Then again, there's these magic words:

There's no place like home...There's no place like home...There's no place like home...

http://home.att.net.nyud.net:8090/~pldexnis/potpourri1/1951CBScolor2004/DCP_3699_ruby-slippers-onD.jpg

[TechBear_Seattle]

17. Beetlejuice! Beetlejuice! Beetlejuice! n/t

[MADem]

23. There ya go!

Didn't South Park do a version where the ghost of Biggie Smalls was conjured up on Halloween and ruined Satan's big "Puffy-style" party?

[ProdigalJunkMail]

26. now THAT was funny...

that is my second fav episode running a close second with Make Love, Not Warcraft!

sP

[jilln]

8. How is this any sicker than asking people to declare their faith in God?

It's the "journalism" that's sick. Why is Fleming "dejected," because he was unable to remain religious? Why is this Web site "radical"?

[The Straight Story]

20. So you are saying one is sick and not both?

I don't drive either way down that street. I don't tell people they have to recant what they believe to be right, and I don't support those who do such either.

"How is this any sicker "
Which, at least it appears, says that you see one is sick - and I think both are.

To each their own.

[jilln]

24. No, I'm saying it's the same thing, and neither is sick.

[The Straight Story]

31. Fair enough :) I think both are sick in some ways though

at least in their methodology.

[MADem]

25. I think the individual is saying they're equivalent...that they are the same. NT

[sodenoue]

13. Religion would not be such a big friggin deal if

people would just keep it to themselves.

believe what you want, just leave me out

[spoony]

19. This guy isn't keeping it to himself

Why don't you email him and tell him to.

[sodenoue]

44. “Jesus was a warrior, not a wimpy, pathetic individual..."

A message might challenge his beliefs, which would anger said individual, who would become warrior-like and vengeful with biblical rage.

It is probably best to stay away from such individuals.

ANyway, you should really keep that shit to yourself...

[Mike Niendorff]

15. Mark 3:28-29

"Truly I say to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter; but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin"

The text says that these are the direct words of Jesus. So: either (1) Jesus was a liar, or (2) every person who commits this act is now permanently "unsaveable".

In either case, to engage in further evangelical efforts toward such persons constitutes a direct denial of Jesus' authority.

So, yes, there is a point here.


MDN

[Silent3]

47. False dichotomy

So: either (1) Jesus was a liar, or (2) every person who commits this act is now permanently "unsaveable".

...or...

(3) Jesus never existed, so what the Bible says is just a story.
(4) Jesus existed, but was misquoted.
(5) Jesus existed, said these words, believed them to be true, but was in error.

There are probably a few more possibilities. I'm guessing you're not a believer in this "unforgivable sin" stuff yourself, so I don't understand why you're using the same false dichotomies so often used by fundies in stunning displays of massive illogic.

[sakabatou]

16. Being a Jewish agnostic

I would have no problem saying that.

[Meshuga]

81. Being a Jewish theist

I would not even need to renounce the Holy Spirit since I never even gave it a chance.

[sakabatou]

84. Too true

:)

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Az]

21. Just as fundamentalists do not represent all of Christianity

this is not representitive of all of atheism. This is a group. It is a group trying things to raise awareness. Personally I think this is a silly exercise. But I credit them with trying something to raise awareness.

[spoony]

22. But whereas people

often know many Christians or other believers and know they aren't all like Falwell, they may not know that many atheists and will think of guys like this when they encounter them. With all the shit in the world right now, why people have to find ever more pointless ways of slapping each other in the face is a msytery to me.

[Warren DeMontague]

30. How is saying "I personally don't believe in (your) God"

a slap in the face?

[Az]

34. Because they are tired of being slapped in the face

Here is a partial list of the things I have to put up with.

I sometimes place bumperstickers on my car pronouncing myself an atheist. This is more to let other atheists know they are not alone than it is to rub anything in the face of believers. And I do recieve numerous thumbs up indicating that I am getting through. But I recieve other things too.

To date I have recieved:

Countless fingers extended my way

A What Would Jesus Do bracelet wrapped around my windshield wiper

Numerous pamphlets left on my car informing me I am evil, deluded, stupid, and part of a vast conspiracy to destroy the world

Personal notes telling me I am a horrible person

Several key jobs done to my car and stickers

3 sets of stickers stolen on separate occaisions (guess they forgot that thou shall not steal)

1 set of stickers removed and reapplied to the side of my car (guess they remembered)

10 bibled dumped on my trunk on one occaision

Followed into parking lots and evangelyzed on more than one occaision

In addition to my troulbes I have friends who are atheists as well and they report their interactions to me as well. I have one friend who just had a Darwin Fish on his car and for this he was insulted and forced off the road by a person that claimed to love the Lord of Mercy. Another friend lost her job because she refused to partake in the office prayer circle.

So yes, some atheists tend to get a bit upset. They act out. They take the Christians at their word that they treat others how they wish to be treated themself and they emulate the hate and angered directed towards them. I personally think its a bad idea. But I understand why they do it.

[SemperEadem]

37. my bumpersticker once I find that bumpersticker site

"Jesus saves, but I invest".

[loudestchick]

40. My husband has decided to begin evangelizing. He keeps his copies of Origin of the Species,

The God Delusion, and Letter to a Christian Nation in his car...just in case.

He's a hard case.

I try to lead by example. Openly atheist and full of moral fervour...I also know "that Book" really well...it helps when countering the deluded.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

54. Az, those are all bad things

but when you put a bumper sticker on your car, you are kind of opening up yourself for a barrage from the other side. As anyone with a Kerry sticker on their card well knows.

[Az]

74. Oh I am well aware of that

I am not disabused of any illusion that such reactions would not occur. Doesn't mean I will back down either. I do not present insulting images on my car. I merely represent my beliefs as others are able to do with the intent of rallying others who believe as I do. Not instigating those I disagree with. I would be a fool though to expect that there will not be those who still take offense.

[NMMNG]

91. So you advocate "the other side" barraging religious people who have bumper stickers on their cars?

Or for wearing religious jewelry/clothing/etc? It is completely unacceptable not only that atheists and/or members of minority religions are accosted for not hiding their status, but that they are made to feel like it is their fault when they are accosted for not hiding their status. They have as much right to live as they want, in the open, as anybody else.

[ThomCat]

94. So, you're basically saying

"You let people know you're an athiest, so what do you expect?" :shrug:

That seems to imply that the only options are to either put up with this offensive behavior or don't let people know you're an athiest.

It seems to me that a better option would be to step on the power that organized religion has been amassing in society and remind them that this is a secular society. Freedom of religion does not, and should not, include the right to harass people in the name of relgion.

[sniffa]

95. ....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2767111

[jgraz]

56. What are your stickers and where do you get them?

If they're good enough to get your car keyed, I definitely want some. ;)

[Az]

75. Its been a while

But I got them at www.evolvefish.com. I recommend getting them with magnetic backings so you can go stealth mode if you want to.

[SemperEadem]

36. not necessarily

I don't know many antheists; however when I think of athiests in general, I certainly don't think of the most out-there one person out of tens of thousands to define the whole. Give people more credit than that.

[jilln]

28. Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat???

Live and let live philosophy? In my life I have been made to use money that declares "In God We Trust," I have sat through countless prayers at school and public functions, have been asked to swear on a Bible in court, our national anthem declares our trust in God, etc. and yet you actually think starting a private Web site and advertising it is not "living and letting live"? Opposing the kind of religious indoctrination I face every day is "obsessive" and "over zealous"?

No one is forced to go to the Web site.

[Warren DeMontague]

29. It's only "religion stalking" if you consider the statement "I don't believe in God"

to be a personal attack on believers... Just like being openly gay is a "flaunting" attack on the sanctity of straight-ness.

Obviously, this kind of thinking persists, even here- which is why some go so batshit when atheists refuse to shut up and stay in the closet.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[trotsky]

57. ??

Being an ass who screams from mountaintops that believers are idiots while tearing up or burning pages from the Bible is quite another.

Has someone been doing this?

[spoony]

72. Some of the videos

on the site this entire thread is about, yes.

[Goblinmonger]

59. Linky?

You make some pretty bold claims for things I don't even see being discussed in here.

[spoony]

73. It's only the OP's link, mate

There's no bold claim in saying someone doing that sort of thing is a total arse.

[Goblinmonger]

76. Throw another prawn on the barby and read again.

You were talking about a double standard. I see nowhere in here were any atheist on DU is doing the things you said. That was what my response was to. I am not speaking to what someone says on DU. The OP talks about a group asking people to make their denouncing of the holy spirit public. That, in no way, is saying that someone is an idiot for believing what they believe.

[spoony]

78. Lame xenophobic jokes aside

I wasn't talking about DU, I was talking about the actual topic of the thread. The behaviour I'm talking about is present at that site, and yes the people doing that are dopes. The behaviour here, in this subforum, is often insulting, patronising and contemptible too, however.

[Goblinmonger]

83. You're the one who called me mate,

I thought I would just try to return in kind. If I were xenophobic, I would have used shrimp, but I clearly am culturually enough aware to know that the correct term is prawn.

So, you were talking about his form as well, and my original request is still in place. Could you please provide links to the behavior in here that is insulting, patronising, and contemptible.

[spoony]

86. I'm not Australian, MATE

And even though your request violates DU rules, as you well know I imagine, I will indulge it nonetheless.

In addition to threads that simply make fun of particular doctrines http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=214x112373">like this one (which add nothing to any "religion and theology" discussion except scorn, similar to http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=214&topic_id=111483&mesg_id=111483">this one), there are flat-out insulting ones like http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=214&topic_id=110625#110734">like this one.

And, just so you don't feel too bad, it isn't limited to R/T, as posts like http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x165062#165182">this illustrate.

And that's in about three minutes of searching. If I kept track of threads and posts mindlessly bashing religious people and their beliefs, I'd run into some kind of post length limit.

[spoony]

88. Here's another one

from today, real classy:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2733615&mesg_id=2734318

[Warren DeMontague]

38. Just like their failure to accept Jesus is the reason Jews are disliked.

"annoying malcontents defacing Bibles and cursing believers"

Good grief. What a flaming crock of bigoted poo.

[spoony]

42. Lol

so you find the actual defacing of others' holy texts to be inoffensive, but the taking of offense to such as bigoted.

I don't know why I bother following these threads once they're moved into this hole of a subforum.

[Goblinmonger]

85. You can be offended all you want

Doesn't mean that those of us who aren't need to do anything differently. I mean, if I say that there is no proof of god and I have no belief in any gods and that offends you, do I need to never say that again? Do I need to start believing in god just to stop the offense?

If I took YOUR bible and defaced it, that would be pretty shitty. If I go to a book store and buy a bible, I think I have the right to do pretty much whatever I want with it. It isn't a holy text to me. I'd be pretty pissed if you defaced a copy of Joyce's Ulysses since I read it every summer and think it is the best novel ever written. But you can do what you want.

[Lars39]

27. If they're old enough to be able to post their own video on youtube,

then they're old enough to enjoy Free Will.

[NoPasaran]

39. Sorry, but if you want my soul it'll take more than a frikkin' DVD!

I expect dinner and a movie at a minimum!

[Evoman]

43. I've always wanted some jack ass to offer me money for my soul.

Like I saw them do it on TV...would you sell your soul for $20? HELL YEAH. And then, when the next guys offers to buy my soul, I would do it again. How does he know I've already sold my soul? HA. Hell, for enough money, I would even sign in blood. Because its no threat to a person like me who doesn't believe in souls. I would do it without hesitation.

This blasephmy challenge? It entertains me. It entertains me that so many damn people care so much about kids saying a couple of dumb words. I find it hilarious (and heartbreakingly sad) that some people would probably care more about their kids saying, "I deny the holy spirit" than about doing drugs or getting cancer.

Oh, and by the way...I'm Evoman...I deny the holy spirit, I deny the existence of Jesus Christ, and I deny that Jesus Christ sacraficed anything for me. In addition, I fart in gods general direction.

Evoman

[sodenoue]

45. what a great idea

what else can you sell that never runs out?

I will sell my soul in installments!

Maybe we can barter; some goods for my soul?

[cain_7777]

70. Sell your soul on ebay

you never know, some christian fundementalist who believes that they have lost their soul for eternity might need a replacement.

[struggle4progress]

46. On the love of enemies: the teaching of St. Silouan

... The grace of the Holy Spirit shows to him who possesses it the way to love his enemies. But it also reveals to him the foundation of this love: the love of God for all people and His will to save them: "No man can know by himself what divine love is if the Holy Spirit does not instruct him; but in our Church divine love is known through the Holy Spirit, and that is why we speak about it." Grace also "gives man the capacity and the strength to love his enemies, and the Spirit of God gives us the strength to love them" ...

http://www.pravoslavie.ru/enarticles/040218200410


June 05, 2006
Papal Homily for Pentecost - The Holy Spirit is Love

VATICAN CITY, JUNE 4, 2006 (Zenit.org)- Here is a translation of Benedict XVI's address at the Mass of Pentecost, which he celebrated in Saint Peter's Square:

... The Holy Spirit is love. But, how is it possible to enter into the mystery of the Holy Spirit? How can the secret of love be understood? ...

http://www.archdioceseofanchorage.org/news/archive/2006/06/papal_homily_fo.html

[Crunchy Frog]

48. I think it's hysterical.

A good antidote to all of those religious proselytizers who continually try to prey on young people. Just showing that there can be multiple players in that game.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

55. This has been an interesting thread

And I can see that for atheists this is empowering. One thing it does is "force" a person to take a stand. At least for that moment. It reminds me of when my son-in-law got baptized, along with his infant son. I am well aware he did so to "please" me, although I never, ever asked him to. (and though he doesn't know it, I really didn't have much of an opinion one way or the other) But it kind of freaked him out to "renounce Satan" because, as he asked me, WHAT IF HE WINS? Now THAT made me think.

I once heard a man say "never mess with a person's faith" and while this fellow was a long way from wise, I think there was wisdom there. I like to understand people's beliefs or lack thereof, but I wouldn't ever want to talk them into changing them, or encourage them to commit in some way.

And I do agree that there really is very little difference between having a person do this and "give your life to Jesus." Having done the latter, I can yet see the similarities.

To me, the bottom line is that faith or lack of faith is the ultimate personal decision and should be respected, regardless. Even if someone believes in something that seems to us outlandish, if we wish respect for our own beliefs (or lack thereof) then we have to give it.

[Zhade]

100. Glad to have you back, T-Grannie!

Great post...until the end.

I respect you tremendously. You're a wonderful, caring, understanding person.

But I don't respect your beliefs, at least those that are supernatural. Just as you're not required to respect my lack of belief, no one is required to respect your beliefs.

However, I fully agree with the idea that all people deserve that their right to their beliefs or lack thereof be respected.

[Dorian Gray]

61. What's the point?

I truly don't understand what the purpose of this is.

ETA: I asked that well before I read the thread, and I came realize that, as some of you say, it's about empowerment. If I took a moment to think about it at all, I would have realized that. :)

[Evoman]

71. Another point besides empowerment.

IF you commit an eternal sin, then it does no good for any christian to ask you to accept Jesus or preach to you. Your lost, so they might as well leave you alone.

[Dorian Gray]

82. To you a benefit...

I suppose the only people who would be on your ass to convert you would be the same people to which that would apply. There are many Christians who don't believe that sin is so static or conclusive. We evolve as we live, and things change, including our hearts. I'd never presume that anybody was damned. It's not my place. But, I see what you mean and how you mean it, so if it gives you peace from door to door christians, then enjoy your peace.

[Rabrrrrrr]

77. Sick? SICK?! This is miles away from being SICK. It's fucking hilarious!

Sick is letting children die, or forcing the elderly to starve to death or die in unheated homes. Or Sean Hannity.

Disagree or not, this is not sick.

Please, save the superlatives for stuff that truly merits it.

But then, I guess in a day when flipping your bike over is "awesome!" or a grade of B is "fantastic!", I guess something like this is "sick".

Ah, English language, how I loved thee and miss thee in thine slow and undignified death.


(Add to the above the fact that I think what the guy is doing is actually pretty funny; and as those who know me here know, I'm an unapologetic very active Christian)

[Az]

79. To be fare

Within the mindset of a believer asking people to risk their soul is sort of an ultimate kind of thing. In their world this mortal coil is just a temporary thing. Its the soul that lasts forever. Which is of course what the challenge is getting at. That it does not buy into or accept such notions in the slightest. It attempts to dismiss such claims by forging straight ahead into the issue.

[Rabrrrrrr]

80. And that's why it's so funny, in my opinion.

It shoves the fundy crap right back down the fundies' throats by prophetically forcing them to see that they focus far too much on hocus-pocus non-essentials, doctrine, and other crap than they do on people's immediate lives and needs.

The fundies will be more upset about this irrelevancy than about the 29,000 children that died of hunger today.

I believe in universal salvation and that there are no unforgivable sins, so stuff like this doesn't bother me in the least, because I don't think it bothers God at all (and of course, for the atheists, there's no one to bother, so you guys probably find it even funnier than I do).

The fundy, rightwinger's god is a very small, very petty, very weak god. Not the god that I worship at all.

[Evoman]

87. Great response

And yes, I do find it funny ;)

[Zhade]

101. If more believers were like you - even HERE - the world would be a better place.

Thanks for that awesome post!

[redqueen]

89. Honestly?

The first time I read this, I thought the OP used "sick" in the "awesome" sense of the word.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

102. Your faith in the inherent good of mankind is truly moving.

:hug:

[redqueen]

103. Well... I am a very spiritual person.

:P

:loveya:

[NMMNG]

90. What is so "freakin sick" about it?

:shrug:

[Evoman]

92. I think its funny.

For one, I don't have the foggiest fucking clue what the "holy spirit" is....and this is after reading the entire bible, and reading too much about christianity. So saying something like "I reject the holy spirit" means absolutely nothing to me, and everything to these christian fellows.

Religious people are odd.

[NMMNG]

93. I think the whole thing is likely tongue-in-cheek

And frankly, I don't see why the notion of asking someone to subjugate their mind, body, spirit and (likely) money to a deity is considered beautiful while asking them to renounce belief/the "holy spirit" is considered "freakin sick".

[believerinchrist]

96. Saying you deny the Holy Spirit is not blaspheming him.

A person can only blaspheme the Holy Spirit when he/she no longer have deception in his/her life and has walked in total truth and freedom from evil. At that point, if a person chooses to turn away from Christ, then there is no second chance. As far I can see, no one has reached that point yet. We need to remember, if God is true to the progressive revelation found in the Bible, then His love and compassion is greater than anything that pulls the human race away from Him.

Just a thought--we need to be careful of mockery because it has a habit of turning around and biting us back. Mockery--no matter where it comes from can be destructive.

[Silent3]

97. Mockery is a useful rhetorical tool

Think of what would happen if Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Santorum, etc., etc., were never mocked, never joked about on the Daily Show or the Colbert Report or late night TV or anywhere else. Imagine that everyone who disagreed with Republican policies and misconduct always did so in a careful, very circumspect and cautions manner. If we disagreed, we always had to disagree respectfully.

I think I can assure you with a high degree of confidence that we'd still have Republicans in control of Congress, and we'd probably already have invaded Iran. It would be a great mistake to underestimate the impact that the bite of mocking comedy and satire had in bringing down the power monopoly which Republicans until very recently enjoyed. Humor, including scathing humor, is a fantastic tool for pointing out absurdity and hypocrisy.

As far as I'm concerned, religious and "spiritual" beliefs are nothing special. People certainly should have the right to practice and promote their religious beliefs, to whatever extent doesn't interfere with my right to do (or not do) the same, but that's covered by the same general principles which promote freedom of speech, expression and thought.

I don't want to give religion any extra, special protection beyond what we typically grant any other political or philosophical realm in a free society. For example, I believe every person has the right to believe that the war in Iraq was a good idea. I also believe I have every right to call such people f*cking idiots. I further believe that if everyone carefully avoided mocking the pro-war position, a lot more people would still hold the pro-war position than actually do so now.

Of course, mockery isn't always and in every circumstance the best tool to use. It has to be wielded carefully, and there should be something solid behind it, well-founded and reasoned arguments to justify one's derision. But if you take mockery out of your arsenal of rhetorical tools entirely when it comes to one particular subject -- in this case, religion -- you imbue that subject with a special aura of respectability and importance. If you think religion is a lot of superstitious nonsense that the world would be better off without (like I do), why on earth would you act in a way that helps religion along and helps it retain a special, mystical luster?

[NMMNG]

98. You are, unfortunately, in the minority

I don't want to give religion any extra, special protection beyond what we typically grant any other political or philosophical realm in a free society.


I don't understand the need/desire to put religious beliefs, no matter how outrageous or harmful they may be, on a pedestal. The notion that they are not to be questioned or critiqued under any circumstances is not only absurd but potentially dangerous.

[Zhade]

99. LOL! Good show, kid!

Blasphemy: a victimless crime.