Do you believe there is something after this life ?

[blues90]

I am not religous really , all I had was a childhood of the christian science religion which is quite different .

I always wondered if this leaving the earth was just like before you came on the scene , you knew nothing then and you go out not knowing the difference .

I recall in 1987 when my wifes mother passed away , I was sitting at this small work table in the corner of what should have been our dining room in our old small apt building guitars late until the wee hours . Had this odd feeling I was being watched , you know the feeling , you don;t want to look but you do .

I saw her mother as a see through vision floating near the ceiling and she said , take care of my little girl , well I now don;t feel I've done such a great job of that over the years since we are broke , it did however scare the hell out of me .

It could have been being tired but i was fully awake .

A few years later I woke from a dream about a yellow cat that had been killed , we had a yellow cat , so the first thing I did was check to see if she was ok and she was , however not an hour later a neighbor knocked on the door asking me if I knew who owned a yellow cat , so i went to look at the cat she placed in a box right next to the sidewalk and it was a couples cat who lived in the same building as my wife and I .

[dottym]

1. i'm not religious either. in fact i'm an atheist.

i do believe that there is an afterlife. i've had similar experiences and have had them for the past 40 years. i sometimes feel like my cat has jumped on my bed. i look and i'm alone. i believe it's the spirit of one of my cats that passed. i used to feel the distinct walk of my little dog across my bed for years after she was gone.

[kestrel91316]

35. I had the same thing happen to me just one time. A few nights after

I put my Fido kitty to sleep, she (and I could always tell when it was her, as opposed to the other cat twice her size) hopped up into bed with me one last time. I felt the thump on the mattress of a cat her size. I felt the pad pad pad of her paws as she walked up the bed toward my head, like she always had. I looked, but there was nothing there.

This was shortly after I went to bed, and wasn't even close to asleep yet. I KNOW what I felt. I can't explain it, but it happened. So I find myself wondering if a part of us persists, at least for a time.

With people, I don't think they are well and truly dead until no one is alive to remember them.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

44. kestrel, I am not a religious person by any means

But these words moved me: With people, I don't think they are well and truly dead until no one is alive to remember them.

I agree.

[Cleita]

47. I've had the same experiences with deceased pets.

I do think that they are real.

[tabasco]

49. I saw what I thought was the ghost of a dog.

I saw a dog under my bed that did not belong to me but had been in the same litter as my dog.

The next day I found out the dog had died that night.

I was not dreaming. It really surprised me to see so many posts about animals in this thread so I thought I would post my experience.

[rasputin1952]

56. Welcome to DU dottym...

:hi:

[dottym]

62. thank you.

i've been lurking around for awhile.

[LisaL]

2. No. I think you die and that is it.

[blues90]

5. That's what I think too .

It's like going to sleep with no dreams or memory of them . Really just like before you were birthed , nothing then and nothing after . It seems reasonable enough to me .

[rzemanfl]

3. My stepson told a doctor he would wake up paralyzed. The

doctor wanted to do an MRI until he learned my stepson had no insurance. Actually the paralysis dream is something that happens to about half of us at one time or another. It is similar to the falling dream that wakes you up with a start and the dream where you try to scream but no sound comes out. Religious visions in the olden days peaked in late spring when people's nutrition was at its lowest ebb and the mold on their remaining bread was making low grade LSD.

If there is something after this life, I hope it involves me urinating on * and his friends frequently.

[blues90]

8. I've had the falling dreams or the ones

where you are being chased and you can't run as if your legs are bogged down in the mud .

The falling dreams were when I was young , once i reached the bottom or what ever it was i would see what looked like wheels rolling around the floor and tried to pick them up but as I did they became to fat to handle , i could hear my parents talking so it semaed i was awake , who knows when you are a child all freaked out .

[Why Syzygy]

36. I have a distinct

memory of a dream when I was about four y/o. It sounded like a lot of people were talking. I thought I woke up because my mother told me it was the new place we were moving to. I surely knew that we were moving. But later, in the new location, I heard the same sounds at the hambuger place where we ate. It all made sense to me then. No idea now.

I don't believe in an after life per se. Alternate realities and a form of consciousness I don't fully understand. A portion of us will always remain part of mother earth as well.

[TwilightGardener]

42. Oh, those dreams where your legs are so bogged down or weak

that you can't run away from a threat--I have those a lot! Didn't know that was common. I wonder if it's due to that "paralysis" from being in a particular sleep stage, or if it means something psychological.

[MisterHowdy]

4. I dont believe in an afterlife

I want to though.
I sure wish there was, but in my life, I have never seen anything that couldn't be explained.
I think that when we die we make new soil.

[shadowknows69]

7. I have seen and experience many things that I don't think could be explained

that shapes a lot of my view on this, even moreso than my christian upbringing which i walked away from.i have seen and felt evidence of it, of something, there are other worlds than this.

[MisterHowdy]

9. I hope your right

of course, for me, i'll have to see it for myself to believe it.

[shadowknows69]

11. I suspect that whatever we believe about death

is likely to be very different from the actual experience. I for one pledge to try to get back to talk about it lol.

[Xipe Totec]

15. Cheesy movie quote, but I love it:

"I realized science couldn't answer any of the really interesting questions, so I turned to philosophy. Been searching for God ever since. Who knows? I may pick up a rock and it'll say underneath 'Made by God.' Universe is full of surprises."

-Chantilas (Red Planet)

At the boundaries, science and philosophy become blurred.

Ask Heisenberg, Gödel, Hofstadter, Einstein...

[DemBones DemBones]

12. I have, too, and in the years when I was an atheist. They

didn't cause me to go back to faith at the time, that happened years later.

[NoPasaran]

6. I believe that when you die

You get back all the socks that disappeared in the laundry. After that, nothingness.

[slowry]

33. Bittersweet n/t

[kestrel91316]

38. Hey, I know where all those socks go when they disappear...........

they turn up without explanation but with frightening regularity in the back seat of a car belonging to acquaintance of mine here in LA.

The floor of his back seat is always getting filled up with unmatched socks that he doesn't recognize, lol. Been going on for years.

[DemBones DemBones]

10. Yes. But no one can know for sure until they are dead,

at which time they either find that there is something after this life or they no longer know anything. I think it will be the former, but if it's the latter, I'll never know.

Either way, I think my religious faith is a good thing for me. Others don't want faith, which is their choice and their right.

I don't believe or follow the teachings of Jesus with actions in order to get God to let me into Heaven but because I think Jesus taught truth, particularly in the social Gospel.

[Contrary1]

13. I experienced something very strange several years ago...

We had bought a fixer upper. I was busy in the hallway, repairing plaster, painting, etc., and out of the corner of my eye I caught a glimpse of something by the front door.


The first time I didn't think much of it, but it happened several more times, and only while I was working in the hallway. For some reason, I assumed it was a woman. And it was always gone by the time I turned my head to get a good look.

This went on for a few weeks, so at the risk of appearing crazier than I am, I asked the husband if he had noticed anything odd in the house. Without hesitation he responded, "You mean the woman by the front door?"

I still can't explain it.

[Digit]

14. Yes, I do

I have "left my body" on two occasions while I was sleeping, napping actually, and viewing my body lying below was quite disconcerting. I knew "I" was the one viewing the body who "looked" like I did, yet I was the real essence of myself.

This was in my early 20's, and now I am 55. I can say that I lost my fear of death at that time. Oh sure, I don't welcome the pain that can go with dying, but I don't fear the afterlife.

It was very personal and I realize others might have differing views and that is perfectly okay.

I also remember when my grandfather died. He came to say goodbye to me and touched my foot. I could not see him, but knew he was there. I was only 6 yrs old.
I went out to the living room to tell my father that Opa had died and my father became angry with me. I found out later my opa had died at pretty much the same moment I felt him in my room.

[shadowknows69]

20. I used to travel as a kid when i napped

I haven't met too many people who say they projected while sleeping. It used to happen a lot. Around early puberty i think which makes sense. nothing spectacular, ususally just enjoying floating around the neighborhood. Let me ask you something. DId you used to have dreams where you could fly? if so how did you do it in the dream? fishing for a common thread here.

[Digit]

31. Wow, yes

I would soar....kind of like you see hawks do while soaring on the air drafts. I used to have those all of the time and looked forward to them.

Those are quite scare now, or possibly I don't recall them.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

51. Interesting. I still have those dreams,...especially, recently.

What most strikes me about my "flying" dreams is: I have to control my anxiety ABOUT flying in order to control flight. It's quite a test of focus. If I focus on an objective, any objective, I can control the floating/flying. If I get caught up in my anxiety, I start losing control and kinda' floating right off the earth, grabbing at tree branches or power lines or window ledges to stay here.

I like those dreams even though I've awakened with my heart prounding at times when I've ended up in places I don't want to be because I've had to grab whatever available to *LOL* 'keep me grounded', so to speak.

With respect to an afterlife, the movie "What Dreams May Come" fairly represents my belief on that. I do believe conciousness is separate from physical existence.

[shadowknows69]

52. I was looking for a specific method

my dreams were very specific.I would have to run as fast as I could and leap forward and then i could fly, only a few feet above the ground and only for a few seconds. Strange thing about this is my wife and one other person are the only ones I know to have this variation on the dream.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

57. Mine are the opposite.

I just, take a soft leap and take off. In a way, my anxiety is what keeps me earth-bound because I'm thinking, "Whoah! Shit! I want my feet back on the ground!" Yet, when I accept it (flying) as a freedom I can utilize, at will (e.g. focus upon the utility of flight), I have total control.

It's a fascinating dream and reminds a bit of my early explorations in gymnastics: I had the capacity of doing an aerial cartwheel but actually doing it was pretty scary,...until I mastered it.

Of course, the dream of mastering flight is a *LOL* bit more intense.

[bentley]

77. I believe

I was involved in an accident and had surgery several times over a two week period, the whole time I was completely out of it. I floated over the operating table and also throughout the hospital, at one point I sat at a desk in my johnny. Once, I was awake and going for test, I recognize the halls and the desk.

When I was injured, I was lying on the floor dying when a bright light came and spoke to me, it said I could chose to live or die and everything would be all right either way, without hesitation I said I wanted to live and it was like everything just clicked and I had complete faith that everything would be o.k and to this day I still have that feeling. I don't fear death at all and look forward to accepting it as a gift just as I have accepted the gift of life.

Also, since I was a kid I've experienced visions and dreams of the future that have come true, sometimes they are very vivid and true to my dreams, other times they are like signs and only make sense after the facts.

[madrchsod]

16. my mom saw the light but she was called back

yup i believe her because my mom would never make that up. where we go after we walk into the light, i have no idea and do`t really care

[MisterHowdy]

17. Do animals have an afterlife?

which species have an afterlife and which don't??
do bacteria have an afterlife?

I think the life/death of animals(or any lifeform) should be brought into perspective.

[shadowknows69]

22. I think all life recycles in some way

if you accept the universe as infinite or nearly infinite or accept some of the wilder "multiverse" theories out there, it allows for this continual wheel of life. However the energy here and now in this universe was created according to our known laws no energy can be destroyed only change forms. Perhaps we do just become fertilizer but that enables new life to form, we are in that new life as much as we are all made of stars.

[dottym]

70. i've heard that they go to a "group soul" .

they also reincarnate -- just like people do. well that's my belief. i had a cat named "joey". he could be really mean. i'd be petting him and he would attack -- grab onto me with teeth and claws. i loved him dearly, but i always said "when joey dies we have to get another cat immediately before he reincarnates". lol

i say that i'm an atheist because my beliefs tend to be more "buddhist".

[orleans]

18. yes. we've seen "ghosts" in various forms (dead relatives) in my family

had prophetic dreams, and had "visions" (my grandmother had the visions)

i don't believe in god

but i believe energy cannot die

i don't understand it but i do believe we go on--at least for awhile (at least from what i've seen! and i was a child and knew nothing about any of this, and it scared the crap out of me!)

[blues90]

19. When my younger brother was dying

of liver cancer , well before he died and was ill he would stare at the corner of the room and talk to my long gone grand father . My mother had the idea this was his guardian angel . I felt it was the injected pain drugs .

[MrSlayer]

21. I'll be shocked to wake up in Valhalla.

No, I don't think there is anything after. You die and that's it.

[shadowknows69]

If you aren't of Nordic blood

or belief in Asgard, they'll be pretty surprised to see you too lol.

[Warren DeMontague]

23. Not religious at all. However, I figure if I popped out of the void once

no reason I couldn't do it again.

[shadowknows69]

25. I hope that's a more metaphorical statement

and that you don't talk about your mother like that. ;-)

[kineneb]

24. proper answer: doesn't matter what happenes after death, but...

what you do in life.

Right understanding.
Right thought.
Right speech.
Right action.
Right livelyhood.
Right effort.
Right mindfullness.
Right concentration.

-the Eightfold Path
(Buddhist)

Think good thoughts, say good words, do good deeds.
-Zoroaster

Service above Self.
-the motto of Rotary International

[kestrel91316]

41. Don't forget: Do as you will, an it harm none.

[Richard Steele]

26. yes. nm

[Wiley50]

27. Oh Yes!

Cremation

[cherokeeprogressive]

28. I believe in SOMETHING, I'm just not sure what it is

Do I believe that some Supreme Being created all I see? Yes
Do I believe that Supreme Being is the Christian God? Hindu God? Allah? Someone ELSE'S idea of the Supreme Being? Not Sure
Do I believe in an "afterlife"? Yes
Do I believe in Karma and how it affects the afterlife? Yes
Do I worry that the Supreme Being requires unknowing faith without knowing WHO THE SUPREME BEING IS? uh huh
Do I worry sometimes that I'm going to suffer for eternity for getting it all wrong, WHATEVER IT IS? You Fuckin' Betcha

[lvx35]

29. Yes I believe there is, but maybe best not to think about it.

Of course I certainly can't prove it. The thing is I don't think its supposed to be provable, I think we are meant to live this life as if its all we've got. (or there is a good chance its all we've got) I think its something of a test, an experiment.

[Big Sky Boy]

30. I can't even remember what I dreamt last night

If what we experience after death is anything like sleeping, then for me I expect it will be an endless dark nothingness from which I never wake.

I went to Catholic Parochial School and a Jesuit University, but now I pretty much lump Jesus, Yahweh and Allah in with Zeus, Apollo and the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

I would never pretend to discount your own personal experience. I believe the world is a more wondrous place than we could possibly imagine. But as much as I really would like to believe that some part of my consciousness will live on in a form that remembers where it came from, I just haven't seen any evidence to make me believe that will happen.

The cruel irony is that we won't know until we die and there is no way to come back from the dead to tell anyone what it's like on the other side.

As it is, I wake up every morning astounded by the miracle of chance and happenstance, that this lump of carbon, calcium and water is aware of itself and its place in the universe.

[dottym]

79. i had the catholic upbringing too.

you say we don't know until we die. have you ever been to a seance? i've been to several and the stuff that comes out is amazing. there's no way that the "medium" could know these things. she's actually channelling the spirits of those who have passed on.

i've also had seances in my house and i can tell you strange things happened before the medium and guests arrived and after they left. i'm talking about things like carpeting lifting up into mid air, a mouthprint on a mirror in a room where none of the guests had been. i could go on and on.

i've also had relatives who had passed appear to me and i've had mental conversations back and forth with them. i had to stop because it was getting to the point that i was dealing more with dead people than living people. :eyes:

[Big Sky Boy]

130. I do believe

That the world is a more amazing place than we can possibly imagine.

As near as I have ever come to a seance is playing with a Ouija board when I was a kid. Pretty sure someone was moving it. I visited a "psychic" once and she told me enough general information about myself that most intelligent people could probably guess. I was going to move soon... I have issues with my father... I wasn't happy with my work life... blah blah blah blah.

I have family members who claim to have seen ghosts, while others claim to have had premonitions and I have no reason to doubt them. I myself had some very disturbing dreams in my teens that seemed to foreshadow some traumatic events I would rather not discuss.

My mind is certainly open to the possibility... But I have to admit I'm a pretty skeptical soul. Sounds like a lot of fun though.

[IChing]

32. Energy can neither be created or destroyed

Nuff said

[IChing]

39. We think we only have 4 dimensions to deal with

that make up our reality.



Physicist agree that there are at least 6-18 dimensions
but the fundamental law of thermodynamics
still does not change.

The brain and nervous system have photon energy
this energy has not been explained when the body
dies. The light essence of us all

[mondo joe]

54. What do you think that has to do with what happens when people - or any other

animal - dies?

We are not made of energy - we process energy.

[IChing]

58. The photon energy problem has not been addressed

all the others have been.

So it must be, a Mana, an energy, that has been
for all living beings.

I have had experiences with ghosts,
of my past, of my future,
of politics, and even on the spiritual side.

The dimensions of our reality
are not decided by religion.

[mondo joe]

59. What "photo enery problem" is that, and what does it have to do with dying?

There's nothing about thermodynamics that suggests one can't simply die and be done with.

[IChing]

60. Where does that energy go?

[mondo joe]

61. It dissipates, just like it does every day.

Where does the energy go when the TV is turned off? Are there ghost TVs?

Every day you convert foodstuff into energy, which later dissipates and is recycled.

Matter isn't destroyed either -- that doesn't mean your body goes on forever either.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

65. Um, can't compare a TV where the energy is cut-off.

The energy isn't 'disappeared' by a switch.

Have you taken a physics class?

[mondo joe]

68. Sure you can. A TV processes energy, and so do animals. When they break to

a certain point, they can no longer process energy.

Where does the energy go? It dissipates and gets used in other ways.

[Marr]

95. I'd like to know where these souls are getting the energy they need to

maintain that pricey conscious mind. I eat three meals a day to do it.

Not trying to be overly smarmy or anything to the originator of the side-thread, but I've never understood how that energy argument is supposed to apply to a supposed afterlife either.

[mondo joe]

98. Well, creationists similarly try to use thermodynamics for their crackpot purposes

as well.

:shrug:

[IChing]

102. Me a creationist?

LOL..................now we get to name calling?
actually I am a nappy headed hoe.

IChing is a creationist.

LOL:) :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[mondo joe]

105. I didn't say you were - I said creationists similarly misunderstand and misuse

TD. They get to different, but equally unsound, conclusions.

[IChing]

67. "your body goes on forever either". "TV is turned off"

forget it,
not worth the corrections or the dialogue
sorry, not going back to high-school to explain
that level of science..

but thanks for talking,
You made people look.

[mondo joe]

74. If you had even a high school understanding of science you wouldn't make

such ridiculous posts.

Neither energy nor matter is created or destroyed. And yet you die. The matter that comprised you and the energy you processed is recycled - neither is destroyed. But either way, "you" are gone.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

78. No one can prove your assertion.

You assume the material IS YOU.

Prove your assumption.

[mondo joe]

80. LOL! If you want to pretend thermodynamics = some sort of afterlife you have

very badly misunderstood physics.

Goodnight.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

87. I was an "A" student in physics. Evidently, you didn't develop the same kind of,...

,...possibilities I got during my course.

I found physics one of the most fascinating studies of my life.

[mondo joe]

88. Really? And yet you didn't know energy dissipates?

Tell me another funny!

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

94. It changes. "Dissipate" equates to DISAPPEAR.

No. Energy does NOT dissipate. Never has and never will.

And, please,...we don't have to disintegrate into a disrepectful tone (and I confess I was moving toward that zone). Let's be decent about this exploration even though we see it differently.

Okay?

[mondo joe]

97. No, dissipates does not mean disappear.

I don't think you understand a thing about physics, and I know you don't understand a thing about biology.

Just do yourself a favor and Google DISSIPATED ENERGY. Then spend some time reading.

[muriel_volestrangler]

118. Ah, this is a language problem

"To dissipate" means "to spread out". Take a loaf out of an oven, and the heat in it dissipates. The energy stored in a wound clock will dissipate as it winds down. The energy in a organism dissipates, if it dies and is therefore unable to obtain more energy by feeding or photosynthesising. They all heat up their surroundings.

[More Than A Feeling]

113. That's easy.

Everytime someone takes drugs, they've ingested physical substances, which act on their brain, but look at that, their behavior changes and their perceptions are altered.

I'd say that's a pretty fair start to showing that the physical body is a sufficient source of everything that human beings are.

Now you show that that is any reason to believe that there is a non-material essence or entity which is a part of a person, and from which part of their nature derives.

[Random_Australian]

115. I claim the null; to make the most rational viewpoint different from the null you

require evidence.

On other words, you are making the claim that there is more than we can find, and there are specific conservation laws governing it, and since you made the claim the burden of proof is on you. :)

[IChing]

81. OK, what happens to the photons part of the equation?

I understand all the other parts ........

my photons do not, or do turn into light in my
electrical system into a photosynthesis system.

I think that this portion of Einstein's equation
in a metaphysical understanding has not been
fully addressed


So to get back to the OP's question
to me it is unknown and not definitive
in your opinion or mine.
but the question is one that all conscious
humans should discuss

thanks again.

[mondo joe]

82. Which photons do you speak of?

Of course Einstein's equation has not been addressed metaphysically - it's physics.

The only use metaphysics has for physics is to try to co-opt actual science as metaphor in a lame effort to user it as a crutch for made up things.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

64. Back to energy. Without it, material life cannot exist.

Energy literally 'charges' physical bodies. When the physical bodies die, that energy HAS to go,...somewhere.

No one has actually broken down 'energy' like we have atoms and molecules. Energy is a mystery.

[mondo joe]

66. Not so. Bodies don't carry energy around - we process it and it dissipates, every

day of our lives.

There's nothing magical about it.

[IChing]

69. it dissipates

LOL

[mondo joe]

72. Some misuse science to support some magic thinking, not knowing what words

mean.

Then they say "LOL".

[IChing]

73. it dissipates Show me that law in physics.

The law of conversation of energy?

[mondo joe]

75. What law is needed? Energy is not destroyed - we know that already.

How does the second law of thermodynamics apply to organisms and biological systems? Organisms are highly organized, both structurally and metabolically. Maintaining this organization requires constant care and maintenance and a constant energy supply. Every time a cell loses some energy to do work, some of that energy dissipates or is lost as heat and movement. Thus, in Lindeman’s study, only a portion of the energy in each trophic level is available to create biomass in the next level. If cellular energy supplies are interrupted or depleted, the result - sooner or later - is death.” (Cunningham, W.P. & Cunningham, M.A. (2002). Principles of environmental science: Inquiry and applications, New York, NY: McGraw-Hill, p. 25.)

[IChing]

90. Now we get back to death of the organism

and the dissipation of energy back into the dimensions from where it came from or is changed
No argument there

However the concentration of burying a dead fish when planting can increase
the life of others and that is only the chemical physical aspects of the equation.

The photonics aspect has not been addressed
and is worth the the dialogue.


I AM AFRAID THAT NEITHER OF US HAS ADDRESSED THE OP'S
QUESTIONS TO HIS OR HER APPROVAL

I don't type well. So it takes me some time.

[mondo joe]

96. There is no reason to think energy goes "back into...dimensions" others than

the dimensions we live in.

Your body gains energy by eating an apple. The apple isn't from another dimension.

And I don't know which "photonics" you speak of. Is that that Uri Geller crap?

[Name removed]

103. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mondo joe]

106. I don't mind people making up their own explanations for their lives.

I do mind them misrepresenting physics and biology to bolster their imaginings.

Thanks.

[muriel_volestrangler]

119. Please pose this "basic question"

mondo joe has explained what happens to the energy of an organism when it dies. It dissipates, heating up the surroundings via conduction or infra-red radiation (just as it does while the organism is alive; but the dead organism doesn't get more energy from its environment).

The word "photonics", and extra dimensions, have been waved around, without actually being put into a meaningful question. You think you know what this 'basic question' is. Please ask it, and we'll see if anyone has answered it.

[Random_Australian]

116. Nope, the second law of thermodynamics.

For any increase in time, the net change of the sum of the entropy in the heat energy/temperature and R*natural logarith W forms must increase.

Not difficult.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

84. If you had physics, you would know our bodies can NOT exist without,...

,...energy.

Define that energy. Can you assert your thoughts without it? Do you compare your thoughts of energy (as dissipating which is fundamentally against a truth we know via basic physics) to your body?

Where does the energy that allows you to post, here, go when your body stops?

We are NOT talking 'magic', here.

What we ARE discussing is an UNANSWERED phenomenon that NONE OF US can pretend to 'know'.

We CAN create a belief or knowing FOR OURSELVES without (I repeat, WITHOUT) pretending any one of us have the 'bible of existence' in our hands.

[mondo joe]

86. Of course our BODIES exist without energy - when we die.

Our bodies, when living, process energy.

You take in energy every day of your life, and give it off. You need to keep eating in order to do that.

When you die the last bits of energy left in your body dissipate, just like it does when you're alive. The difference is you're not bringing in new energy.

There is no law against energy dissipating - it happens all the time. For goodness sakes, just type DISSIPATED ENERGY into Google and see for yourself.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

89. Oh. Now, I see our fundamental difference of perspective.

You believe OUR BODIES create and process the energy. Whereas, I believe energy is what makes our material existence possible.

[mondo joe]

91. Of course our bodies don't CREATE energy - energy is not created. Duh.

Our bodies process energy.

If you say "energy is what makes our material existence possible" I'd have to ask where you think that energy is coming from and where it is.

I wonder if you understand that life depends on a constant input of energy and where that comes from.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

99. But, but, but,...I have asked you numerous times to define that energy.

The point is,...you can't,...I can't,...no human being can.

THAT'S the mystery!!! :hug:

It's a mystery that provides great opportunities for human creativity and imagination. Einstein recognized that. He even said human imagination trumps knowledge.

It's okay that you choose not to explore and prefer a solid perspective. But, please, don't criticize those of us who choose to exercise our creativity and imaginations. We may actually bring something wonderful to your life, someday.

[mondo joe]

101. Define it? It's a measure of being able to do work, of course.

An A in physics my ass.

Go ahead and use your imagination - just don't try to pretend it's physics.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

109. Hey, mondo joe. Ever heard of the term, "projection"?

Is it possible that, this topic is personal, to you?

Why else would you get so 'personal',...?

Do you realize YOU INITIATED A CONTEST AGAINST OTHERS' BELIEFS,...not the other way around?

Are you tolerant?

I can let you go, respectful of your belief, and stop the struggle of answering the unanswerable by saying, "let's just do the best with what we have,now".

Does that work for you?

[mondo joe]

110. I'm not tolerant of lies.

When you lie about physics and TD, I'm not prepared to tolerate it any more than I am when creationists do the same.

Believe whatever you like - but when you misrepresent physics expect to be called on it.

[IChing]

100. "life depends on a constant input of energy and where that comes from."

Ok, let us look at that philosophical and physical concept.

where is that " constant input" coming from?

from the close system, right?

But the dimensions of that reality is in how many planes?
Just our 4 dimensions? Right?

We are made of the same things as stars.

[mondo joe]

104. If you want to talk thermodynamics and physics, please do.

But it's plain you don't have a clue about it, other than a bit of TD that you took to mean something philosophical.

Yes, we're made of the same stuff as stars. Is that supposed to MEAN something?

[IChing]

111. ok Joe

funny now you get into processes of logic
on this discussion that reach
the inferences of ad homen and other
logically fallacies.

So we may never discuss
or even evaluate the "light"
or light itself. (no jesus shit there)


"MEAN"..........yes that is the question
that the OP asked

I like Dawkins
but for me

this is a joke
about an atheist and a christian.

I am neither.

[Marr]

108. Forgive me, please, but these pseudo-scientific attempts to prove an

afterlife are just ludicrous.

We're made of materials that were first processed in stars, yes. We get our energy from eating food, and we expend it by heating our bodies, moving about, etc. I can't talk advanced physics with you with any degree of intelligence, because I only posess a basic lower division college science education, but I don't see what these concepts have to do with one another, much less an afterlife.

If people want to believe in an afterlife, that's fine. But using junk science to "prove" it borders on insulting. And it just degrades real science, in my humble opinion.

[IChing]

92. thank you

[Random_Australian]

117. Eh? We certainly have quantified it as well as we have mass.

E = hf is the best way.

Energy can be moved into, and out of, bodies.

Life needs energy to move, and to keep itself ordered. The increase in energy in the body by chemical potential & heat simply leaves the body and is anonymously transferred elsewhere.

That is, there is no difference between a warm new corpse heating an ice-block, and a non-living thing doing the same. There is no special boundary between the alive and the not; that was proven in about 1803, I think. (Ammonia synthesis)

Energy is not even really a msytery, to be honest. It follows laws, and it's existence is defined by them. That simple.

[Silent3]

128. Energy isn't what we ARE...

...it's something that what we are USES.

This is why the Second Law of thermodynamics (which a lot of people have apparently tried to educate you about with little positive effect so far, unfortunately) is of far more importance than the First Law (conservation of energy).

What are we exactly? Well, if you want to go metaphysical about this stuff, you can talk about "souls" and "spirits" I guess.

But if you're going to try to drag the laws of physics into the discussion, you'd better be prepared to deal with people as physical beings. Amorphous new-agey concepts of "energy" haven't got much in common with the term "energy" used in physics beyond how the word is spelled and a bit of poetic license.

Talking about "souls" and "spirits" as "energy", and then trying to drag in the laws of physics in an attempt to prove something about immortality is like talking about being under "a lot of pressure" as work, and then bringing a tire pressure gauge into the office to prove it.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

34. I think one day millions of years in the future scientists will solve time travel

and they'll go back to save every human being who ever lived and bring them to their own time (which may even be a space outside of time). In that future time, they'll be able to solve every disease or physical problem from which those people died. Every generation of man will coexist including every family member. At first, it will be just the major figures of history. Eventually, it will be everyone, going back to the times when homo sapiens sapiens began emerging.

But I also think that when you die, your conscious mind just keeps going through the time loop of physical reality that you passed through before. It's because the points of time and space through which your life's journey passed are still there. It's like a river. Just because you paddle up river doesn't mean that where you paddled before stops existing. It just exists back in time and in the physical space as it was when you were in it at that time. That time and space exists forever, but it is back in time and you are back there in it.

As far as the spiritual stuff, I've also had strange experiences. The universe and physical reality are probably much, much stranger than we can imagine.

[BlooInBloo]

37. Sure. The universe, everyone who isn't dead... all sorts of things....

... I don't have reason 1 to believe that I'll be one of those things, though.

[TwilightGardener]

43. Sure hope there is. Hope it's good.

(Meant to respond to original post)

[dysfunctional press]

40. there's nothing after this life- and the sooner people realize it, the better.

we should be focused on the here and now, not the 'hereafter'.

[Pastiche423]

71. I prefer to focus on the 'hereafter'

where I will not be conscience of physical pain. Whether the hereafter is full of fluffy clouds and rainbows or just nothingness, I believe I will not feel pain.

[dysfunctional press]

121. i live with chronic pain due to an arthritic spinal condition...

i take 50-70mg. of methadone every day, plus a couple of vicoprofen depending on the pain level...i wake up pretty much every morning in severe pain.

i WISH there was a pain-free yet conscious afterlife...but i see absolutely no reason to believe that it actually exists in any form. we live. we die. end of story. and for some of us, the living part isn't all that great- but that's the hand we were dealt, and the cards we get to play.

but focusing on a non-existent hereafter rather than the known here and now is a total waste of the life you were given. you're only cheating yourself...but- if you're so anxious to get to your pain-free hereafter...for your sake and everyone else's- i hope you get the chance to find out what's actually there VERY VERY soon. :hi:

[southerncrone]

45. Yes, but unsure what it might be.

Perhaps the cosmic hook to keep us interested in the future, so hope springs eternal.

[bridgit]

46. oh yes, but it's not for me to know just what that might be...

[BlueJazz]

48. "Th-th-th-that's all folks!"

I'm satisfied with that.

[TahitiNut]

50. Of course. It's the same 'place' I was before I was 'born' (this time).

Simple. :shrug:


FWIW ... there's much more than flippancy to that answer. Just ask the Hot Dog vendor.

[WillyT]

53. I Certainly Hope So !!!

:rofl:

[mondo joe]

55. After this life I/my body will break down and be recycled.

That's all I know of.

[Rex]

63. Maybe.

Shit happens.

[Greyhound]

76. Don't spend much time thinking about it. I'd like to think there is, but

my mother died over five years ago and she would come back or give me some sign if she could, but so far nothing.

The way I look at it, we're all going to find out for sure some day, so why worry about it now.


"We all got it comin', kid" - William Munny

[AshevilleGuy]

83. I think we return to wherever we came from.

Reincarnation, of course. I do not believe that I "began" at my birth. And I have seen too many people reacting as they were dying to believe they were going into nothingness; I will never believe it.

[Marr]

85. Absolutely- and it's called decomposition.

We have precious little time in this universe. The recognition that you will not, in fact, live forever is the strongest impetus imaginable to live life well and treat others well.

[donheld]

93. I just hope that when I die I don't go to

New Jersey. I hear it can be hell :evilgrin:

[Laurier]

107. You live. You die. What matters is what you do in between those two points.

The rest, meh, it matters not at all.

[More Than A Feeling]

112. Of course there is. The world will go on without me, that is what is after my life.

If you mean some kind of continued conscious existence for me after my death, then, no, I don't believe in any such thing.

[Lilith Velkor]

114. A possible future that did not occur happened in your dream.

This is only scuttlebutt and therefore probably bullshit, but I heard there have been cases in labs studying dream states where subjects dreamed of events a few seconds before they happened.

As for ghosts, maybe the dreamtime of the living is where and when they live on.

[Orrex]

123. "subjects dreamed of events a few seconds before they happened."

Well, the problem is that there's no way to verify this, until we can actually "listen in" on people's dreams.

It's like the old myth that "if you die in a dream, you really die." Oh? How do we verify this, since presumably all the died-in-their-dreams people died. To prove the myth, we'd need to observe a death-dream in progress and also observe the near-simultaneous death of the dreamer.

In the case of these momentarily prophetic dreams, we simply can't ascertain that the dreamers really dreamed the events or that they dreamed them "a few seconds before they happened."

[Lilith Velkor]

124. Hence the "probably bullshit" disclaimer. :)

I've died in a dream and I'm still here, but since there's no way to verify that statement, nothing has been proven either way, correct?

[Orrex]

125. Doh! How did I miss that?!?

My "probably bullshit" detector must be on the blink!

And as to your question, if it's a matter of proving to someone else that you did/didn't dream X, then it's currently impossible (pending the aforementioned dream-monitoring device).

[Lilith Velkor]

126. Yup.

I get this funny feeling that I'm going to watch "Minority Report" again this weekend.

[Orrex]

127. Shhh! Don't mention that actor's career!

You'll be cast out or something.

[Lilith Velkor]

129. Which one?

Colin Farrell was also in that film.

Besides, the casting choices just make it all the more deliciously creepy.

[MistressOverdone]

120. I hope.

I see hints that it is true. My faith promises that it is, but is sketchy on the details.

It is the bit unanswerable question we all wonder about. And if you have ever watched someone die, and seen the difference between a living body and one that has stopped breathing, you wonder even more.

[shadowknows69]

122. There are too many subcategories on this forum

This thread was a GENERAL discussion about the afterlife. The title diudn't specify any religion or theological school of thought I'm failing to see why it was moved? Needed more room for anohter Imus thread? you guys are getting quick on the draw lately.