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Lerkfish (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 02:28 PM Original message |
On the nature of Belief... |
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Warpy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 02:33 PM Response to Original message |
1. You ran into trouble right off the bat, with |
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kwassa (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 02:42 PM Response to Reply #1 |
5. Atheists HERE re-define the word "Atheist" |
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Warpy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 02:44 PM Response to Reply #5 |
6. Don't tell other people how they think |
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kwassa (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 02:55 PM Response to Reply #6 |
13. I will say whatever I choose, freedom of speech and all that .... |
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Warpy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 02:57 PM Response to Reply #13 |
14. Thanks for proving my point |
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eallen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 03:10 PM Response to Reply #13 |
24. When you understand the self-deception in what you just wrote... |
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kwassa (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 04:22 PM Response to Reply #24 |
57. I'm sorry you suffer from self-deception. You can recover, you know |
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beam me up scottie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 04:28 PM Response to Reply #57 |
59. Perhaps the same thing that makes THIS person think that they know what |
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eallen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 04:35 PM Response to Reply #57 |
61. From what you write. You label a stance "phony" for what is logical... |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-15-05 02:49 PM Response to Reply #57 |
99. You're an abuser. |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 03:21 PM Response to Reply #13 |
30. Maybe the reason we "care about the subject"... |
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kwassa (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 04:23 PM Response to Reply #30 |
58. Having watched you for awhile ... |
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beam me up scottie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 04:36 PM Response to Reply #58 |
62. Speaking of issues, |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 03:44 PM Response to Reply #5 |
45. Christians HERE re-define the word "Christian" all the time. |
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H2O Man (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 05:25 PM Response to Reply #5 |
66. That's not "redefining" |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-15-05 02:51 PM Response to Reply #5 |
100. I'll speak to this lie. |
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Tux (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 03:34 PM Response to Reply #1 |
35. OK |
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Warpy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 03:37 PM Response to Reply #35 |
38. Thanks for proving my point |
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H2O Man (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 05:24 PM Response to Reply #1 |
65. Atheism defined: |
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muriel_volestrangler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 06:20 PM Response to Reply #65 |
69. Merriam-Webster's online |
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beam me up scottie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 06:25 PM Response to Reply #69 |
70. : ) |
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H2O Man (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 06:52 PM Response to Reply #69 |
73. Sure it did |
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_TJ_ (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-14-05 12:56 PM Response to Reply #1 |
97. Two different things |
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pscot (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 02:33 PM Response to Original message |
2. Atheists believe god is "not proven" |
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Tux (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 03:36 PM Response to Reply #2 |
37. There is the truth |
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Lerkfish (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 03:39 PM Response to Reply #37 |
39. but, I'm not trying to say one belief or the other is correct..I'm |
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Tux (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 03:56 PM Response to Reply #39 |
51. I didn't say either one is correct |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 02:34 PM Response to Original message |
3. Eh, it's still disrespectful. |
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bowens43 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 02:40 PM Response to Original message |
4. 'athiests believe there is not a God(gods)' |
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Lerkfish (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 02:51 PM Response to Reply #4 |
10. If I am incorrect, simply correct that portion and then comment. |
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Maple (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 02:45 PM Response to Original message |
7. Does anyone here 'believe' in unicorns? |
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Tux (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 03:40 PM Response to Reply #7 |
40. WTF?! |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 03:42 PM Response to Reply #40 |
43. Is "bald" a hair color? |
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Lerkfish (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 03:44 PM Response to Reply #40 |
46. actually, more to the point, I wanted to discuss the nature of belief, not |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 03:46 PM Response to Reply #46 |
47. Oh, you *didn't* want to start a flamewar? |
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Lerkfish (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 03:49 PM Response to Reply #47 |
48. No, I didn't. |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 03:55 PM Response to Reply #48 |
50. Well, it seems a bit naive to think that you could use a sensitive phrase |
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Lerkfish (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 04:10 PM Response to Reply #50 |
52. see post #10. |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 04:16 PM Response to Reply #52 |
54. When used as a "general term," belief almost becomes meaningless. |
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beam me up scottie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 04:21 PM Response to Reply #54 |
56. Damn Trotsky |
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Donald Ian Rankin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 05:48 PM Response to Reply #52 |
68. I think a lot of people |
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wtbymark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 02:46 PM Response to Original message |
8. belief is naturally human |
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salib (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 02:54 PM Response to Reply #8 |
11. Interesting. How is reality something objective that we |
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Lerkfish (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 03:00 PM Response to Reply #11 |
17. Dont apologize! I love philosophical arguments! |
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housewolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 03:19 PM Response to Reply #11 |
29. Our "rose-colored" glasses |
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Lerkfish (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 02:55 PM Response to Reply #8 |
12. thank you for responding to the philosophical nature of the thread... |
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Tux (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 03:42 PM Response to Reply #8 |
42. Thank you |
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salib (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 02:49 PM Response to Original message |
9. OK, being an atheist who has not contributed to these rants |
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Lerkfish (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 02:58 PM Response to Reply #9 |
16. thanks for your thoughtful reply... |
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salib (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 03:09 PM Response to Reply #16 |
22. Do not forget that there are also relative strengths of belief, |
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Lerkfish (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 03:17 PM Response to Reply #22 |
28. But I could say that your belief influenced your behaviour... |
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salib (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 03:27 PM Response to Reply #28 |
33. As I said, silly. |
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Lerkfish (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 03:35 PM Response to Reply #33 |
36. I'm stating the obvious, but I'm also trying to understand this by |
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eallen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 03:14 PM Response to Reply #9 |
25. Faith is a psychological problem. |
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H2O Man (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 05:28 PM Response to Reply #25 |
67. You are consistent |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 03:16 PM Response to Reply #9 |
27. Of course it's not proof. |
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Tux (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 03:44 PM Response to Reply #9 |
44. Thank you |
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housewolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 02:58 PM Response to Original message |
15. I'd like to throw into the mix... trust |
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salib (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 03:03 PM Response to Reply #15 |
19. Can trust and belief be separated? |
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Lerkfish (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 03:04 PM Response to Reply #15 |
20. Excellent post! Hadn't thought of that...hmm..Trust, then |
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salib (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 03:10 PM Response to Reply #20 |
23. I love these kinds of discussions |
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housewolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 03:41 PM Response to Reply #20 |
41. Yes, you got my point |
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salib (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 04:31 PM Response to Reply #41 |
60. Again, why is religion the only "faith"? |
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housewolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 05:12 PM Response to Reply #60 |
64. Does "faith" always equate to religion? |
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housewolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 09:21 PM Response to Reply #60 |
88. Holland - apology |
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salib (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 11:29 PM Response to Reply #88 |
94. NP |
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MADem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 03:01 PM Response to Original message |
18. Well, atheists aside (believing ones or knowers) |
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Lerkfish (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 03:09 PM Response to Reply #18 |
21. Well, I would say that your belief is that the universe is highly complex. |
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salib (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 03:14 PM Response to Reply #21 |
26. Belief is not openness to new ideas. |
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Lerkfish (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 03:23 PM Response to Reply #26 |
31. See post #22...wherein I discuss both possibilities: that belief is either |
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Tux (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 03:51 PM Response to Reply #26 |
49. God bless atheists |
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MADem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 03:27 PM Response to Reply #21 |
32. I've always been sold the bill of goods that "belief" is a fixed entity |
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Lerkfish (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 03:32 PM Response to Reply #32 |
34. Interesting. I "believe" that a belief is an evolving, changing thing... |
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pscot (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 04:20 PM Response to Reply #21 |
55. I think you're mixing up belief and imagination |
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Lerkfish (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 06:56 PM Response to Reply #55 |
74. I think you've misunderstood my point. |
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beam me up scottie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 04:14 PM Response to Original message |
53. " atheists believe there is not a God(gods)." |
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Lerkfish (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 06:51 PM Response to Reply #53 |
72. And yet, you continue to participate. |
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beam me up scottie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 07:29 PM Response to Reply #72 |
75. No, I did not participate. |
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MADem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 09:00 PM Response to Reply #75 |
84. I don't think any insult was intended, though |
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beam me up scottie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 09:05 PM Response to Reply #84 |
86. You are right, |
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Lerkfish (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 10:27 PM Response to Reply #75 |
90. agreed. if you'll note, I also expressed dismay |
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eallen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 08:02 PM Response to Reply #72 |
76. "I don't like the term believers/unbelievers .. for BOTH are believers" |
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Lerkfish (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 08:09 PM Response to Reply #76 |
77. well, you have all opened the door on my ignorance. |
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eallen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 08:43 PM Response to Reply #77 |
82. OK, how's this? Belief is volition where it doesn't belong. |
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Lerkfish (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 10:40 PM Response to Reply #82 |
91. interesting.... |
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eallen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 11:22 PM Response to Reply #91 |
93. Several comments... |
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muriel_volestrangler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-14-05 09:01 AM Response to Reply #93 |
95. I think your definition of 'disbelief' is fairly restrictive |
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eallen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-14-05 09:47 AM Response to Reply #95 |
96. Purely for the argument -- I wasn't trying to foist a preferred meaning. |
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beam me up scottie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 08:46 PM Response to Reply #77 |
83. I am more than willing to discuss the definition |
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MADem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 09:02 PM Response to Reply #83 |
85. A "pre-offended state!!!" |
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beam me up scottie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 09:06 PM Response to Reply #85 |
87. I think I'm going to use that one again. |
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Donald Ian Rankin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 04:55 PM Response to Original message |
63. I think a lot of people |
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trotsky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 06:42 PM Response to Reply #63 |
71. That says a lot, Donald. Thank you. |
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toddaa (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 08:12 PM Response to Original message |
78. DO OVER!!! |
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Lerkfish (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 08:14 PM Response to Reply #78 |
79. I have no problem with that. |
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toddaa (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 08:26 PM Response to Reply #79 |
80. Instead of belief, let's use the word knowledge |
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Lerkfish (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 08:31 PM Response to Reply #80 |
81. hmm.. |
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eallen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 09:30 PM Response to Reply #79 |
89. Sure. Belief is the insistence that a chosen interpretation is fact. |
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Lerkfish (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Apr-13-05 10:48 PM Response to Reply #89 |
92. Agreed, the religious right tend to think in absolutes, but |
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aneerkoinos (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-14-05 01:30 PM Response to Original message |
98. Pistics |
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