Vatican insiders declare the Pope a 'disaster'

[emad]

Pope Benedict's repeated gaffes and the Vatican's inability to manage his message in the internet era are threatening to undermine his papacy, Vatican insiders have said.

The Holy See is struggling to contain international anger over the Pope's claim on his first official visit to Africa that Aids "cannot be overcome through the distribution of condoms, which even aggravates the problems".

The Pope's remarks about condoms, and a recent furore over his lifting of the 20-year excommunication of a British bishop who has questioned the Holocaust, has left him looking isolated and out of touch, prompting calls for a radical shake-up of the way the Holy See delivers its message.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/vaticancityandholysee/5018013/Vatican-insiders-declare-the-Pope-a-disaster.html

[ogneopasno]

1. GET OUT!

[closeupready]

2. He was unfit for the office of Pope from the beginning.

I can't even call him that. He's Ratzinger, to me.

[TechBear_Seattle]

11. I prefer Maladict

Somehow, that name (Latin for "ill speech" or "curse") seems far more appropriate than Benedict (Latin: "good speech," "blessing".)

[Peregrine Took]

18. I wonder if it was true that the Cardinals' had chosen someone else but that

man (I think from South America)indicated that he didn't think he was worthy of the position by crying in front of a statue, thereby, indicating his refusal.

When this happened Cardinal Ratzinger was chosen but he was only a second choice.

[nickinSTL]

23. I've heard that, but it seems unlikely...

number one, because historically it's been really hard to get the College of Cardinals to agree quickly, and Ratzinger was announced at only the second ballot-count...

and because the majority of the College is currently very conservative, having been selected by John Paul II - and the South American who was rumored to have been the first choice really isn't that conservative.

I'd love to believe it was possible, as the South American guy would probably have been a great Pope and have begun to lead the Church out of the dark ages and into the real world...unlike Ratzinger.

[Why Syzygy]

26. There were four ballots.

eta: Two each day

Results of the first ballot

On the first ballot, according to the Italian daily Il Messaggero, Carlo Maria Martini obtained 40 votes, Joseph Ratzinger obtained 38 votes, and Camillo Ruini a substantial number of votes, the rest of the votes being dispersed. Black Smoke (fumata nera) emerged from the top of the Sistine Chapel at around 20:00 Rome time. This signaled that the first ballot had been held and that no new pope had been elected.

...
Vote counts from a "leaked" diary

On September 23, 2005 a text purporting to be the unauthorized diary of a cardinal was published by the Italian magazine Limes. The diary gave the impression that Ratzinger more or less scraped in, and that his chief rival in the election was not Cardinal Martini, but rather Jorge Cardinal Bergoglio of Buenos Aires. The story was covered by several agencies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_conclave,_2005

[hedgehog]

3. What's wild about this is that the unnamed Vatican insiders

are in support of condom use.

[YOY]

10. There is a "Liberal" Catholic Church.

Who do you think made Vatican I and II happen?

Watch "Religulous" and see Bill Marr's interview with a modern American Catholic priest in front of the Vatican. He was making fun of them and sounding almost like a secular humanist.

According to some DUers though, they're worse than the Mormons and Evangelicals.

Just like most Protestants/Evangelicals don't get...most Catholics take everything the pope says as the word of God...not anymore.

[trotsky]

13. Seems a stretch to say that.

I think the discomfort comes from the way Ratz communicated the idea, not the idea itself.

[hedgehog]

15. There is fairly reliable testimoney that the original ban on artificial birth control

had more to do with a perceived need to protect the authority of the Pope than with the actual morality involved. In other words, a group of Vatican insiders agreed that there is nothing morally wrong with birth control but proceeded to brow beat Paul VI into denouncing birth control on the grounds that if the "Church " (i.e. the hierarchy) was ever seen to change its mind, it would lose all teaching authority.

So the Pope and bishops held the line on artificial birth control and proceeded to lose all authority because most Catholics saw through the BS.

I am wondering if what we have here is a group of Vatican insiders who want to change the rules in an effort to elicit better press. Note that the question of actual right or wrong doesn't enter in, it's a question of what looks good.

[RaleighNCDUer]

4. Hey, they elected him. They can always 'unelect' him.

It wouldn't be the first time.

[TechBear_Seattle]

12. Popes are elected for life, so the only way to "unelect" him would be to....

(You'll have to fill in the blank yourself.)

[RaleighNCDUer]

14. Exactly. And they have done it at least twice before.

I'd have to research a bit to remember which ones.

OTOH, they made up for it by having two popes at once for quite a while, too.

Vatican history is pretty interesting, but I've never delved deeply into it - only caught some references off-hand while reading other histories.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

21. John Paul I.

Allegedly. Only ruled for 30 days??? Back in 1976 or so???

[Sequoia]

5. Can they actually replace him or is it until death do they part?

[TZ]

6. Uh hello you knew what you were getting when you

elected this idiot.

[BurtWorm]

7. The Pope cannot be out of touch. The world is out of touch with the Pope.

[MannyGoldstein]

8. The Former Grand Inquisitor

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKxnaMeOK20

[sandnsea]

9. The message needs a radical shake-up

There's no way to "manage" a message that prohibits condoms and birth control pills and abortion for 9 year old rape victims.

[IndianaGreen]

25. The message reflects the corrupt and bigoted ideology behind it

Jesus would have never approved of the Catholic Church or the Papacy.

[emad]

16. Just wait what the God's Banker UK cops have in store for old

Papa razzi!


Hehehe/

[Peregrine Took]

17. The way I read it was he was a PR "disaster." He just needs to hire some new

staffers who are computer and internet communication savvy and everything will be swell.

[moobu2]

19. You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig

[saltpoint]

20. The Pope was wrong on condoms. He showed poor judgment

regarding his call on a Holocaust-denying Bishop.

It seems unlikely that he will just step down.

But this Pope is not doing the Catholic Church a whole lot of favors with his performance in recent weeks.

I think most 6th graders likely know the Pope is wrong on condoms.

[struggle4progress]

22. The Telegraph is notorious for inaccuracy in the service of sensationalism

[IndianaGreen]

24. How about abolishing the Papacy altogether?

Or pray that Benedict soon meets his idol Hitler in the afterlife.