Religion in the Science Class

[demwing]

I make no apologies for my religious beliefs, but I also am a firm believer in the separation of church and state. It is, without doubt, my core democratic belief.

So when my 14 year old son came home and told me that his science teacher made a remark, in class, during class time, that "The second coming of Jesus will probably happen in your life time" to a small group of students, I was livid. I asked if there were an ongoing discussion on creation vs evolution. My son said no, they were currently studying geography.

I was set to hit the Principal's office, breathing constitutional fire and brimstone, but my son asked me to hold off. It seems that this teacher is one of the few with which he has a decent relationship, and did not want to get the man in trouble.

My solution was to have my son go back to his teacher on his own, and without challenging the belief, challenge the appropriateness of the discussion during public school hours. He did, and the teacher apologized to him for his misstep, and owned his error.

My question here is if other DUers think this is a proper resolution, or should I take this further?

What say you all?

[kestrel91316]

1. I wouldn't have had my child discuss it with the teacher. I would have done it

myself. But it didn't need to become a federal case, and it's good that it didn't.

[rurallib]

2. I probably would have gone to the principal.

That is just so out of line.

[paulsby]

3. i think you handled it well nt

[enlightenment]

4. I would have gone to the teacher myself,

simply because I'd like to be sure he understood that his comment was inappropriate for the classroom - it doesn't need to be confrontational; just serious.

Your son sounds very mature, but if he likes the teacher I suspect he would accept any apology as sincere. Fundy proselytizers are like any other addict - they make the right noises when confronted, but they make them to get people to back off. Then they go right back to the behaviour.

[Goblinmonger]

5. As a teacher

I always appreciate when students/parents come to me first. Not that it happens a lot, mind you, but there are times when I don't even realize there is a problem. Usually the problems can be solved at the "local" level. This is a case where it seems to be. If it continues, then I think you go to the next step. If it doesn't, then fine. Regardless, I think you son showed that he has learned to be an advocate for himself--something that many kids that age and older are lacking. Good for him.

[Warpy]

6. I think your son is a brave kid

unless he's telling you a story, something kids have been known to do when their parents are in First Amendment moods.

If that did resolve it, that's great, leave it alone.

If this had happened during formal class time, it would be a very big deal. Since it happened outside formal class time and with only a small group of kids, probably believers, leave it alone.

There's a difference between expressing opinion and teaching it. IMO, the teacher didn't quite cross that line, although he did manage to get a toe over it.

In any case, your kid got a lesson in separation of church and state.

FWIW, I'm an atheist who has no trouble with people who disagree as long as they know where that line is.

[demwing]

10. My son is still a poor liar, and has a horrible poker face

When he bluffs/fibs, he sweats. LOL. But I know that won't last forever :)

I would expect him to create stories (or actually - withhold details) about girl friends, but not about teachers and not about this. He came to me, and was very open about the issue.

That being said, you misread my post. This happened IN class and DURING class time, but in a corner, with a select group of students. Regardless, it was loud enough for everyone to hear, and my son did.

I'm willing to give this teacher the benefit for now, but am very disturbed and will likely pick a random day to drop by class, and tell him how much I appreciate his continued adherence to the constitution, just to gauge his reaction. ;)

[rrneck]

7. Outstanding.

You handled it well. Everybody learned and no heads had to roll.

[cynatnite]

8. You have a very mature kid...

I don't blame you for your outrage over this, but for him to want to handle it in his own way is commendable. That kind of maturity is great for a kid his age.

Good job!

[Why Syzygy]

9. I wonder how small the group of students.

IMO, this is worse than promoting creationism, because "creationism" (as the young earth theory) can be disputed with science.

Also, IMO, this teaching is one of the most destructive forces in our society. If it were the entire class, I wouldn't be satisfied until the teacher made a public correction. He could start off by pointing out that people 1,000 and 2,000 years ago believed he would come in THEIR lifetimes. A certain number of sensitive students, if they accept the teacher's view, will abandon hope for their future, and that of humanity.

[cosmik debris]

11. I would have used email just to keep a record.

And I would have copied in the Principal.

It tales a hell of a lot of nerve to tell kids that they will not be allowed to grow up and lead normal lives because of forces beyond their control. That's pretty cold hearted.

[skepticscott]

12. It might not be a bad idea

to let the principal know that it happened, while letting him know that you consider this particular incident closed as far as you and your son are concerned. It may very well be that there have been previous incidents of this type and that the teacher has been warned and promised not to do it again, in which case the principal will probably be glad to hear about another.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

13. I notice you live in Provo, Utah

It doesn't surprise me one bit that there's a teacher like that in Provo. What's more surprising to me is that your 14 year old son has gone this many years without experiencing religious content in the classroom. There are a huge number of mormons who have serious boundary issues, one of them being church/state separation rules. I don't know if you are LDS or not, but as someone who grew up mormon, I saw these boundary issues up close for many years.

[demwing]

14. Actually, we home schooled him until only recently

Specifically to avoid the LDS influence in the schools (obviously, I'm not LDS :) ).

I always wonder why homeschooling gets such a bad rep amongst progressives. Maybe those who are against it have not experienced the soft but insidious prejudices of rural Christianity, whether Baptist, LDS, Evangelical, or otherwise. It's hard to be the only kid in class or scouts that doesn't go to the local church. The progressive alternative is to homeschool.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

17. Holy crap, how do you survive in Provo?

It's the very heart of the mormon corridor holy land. Even though I'm no longer mormon, I can tolerate them pretty well, but Utah County would be torturous to me.

[demwing]

18. It's easy to be the anti-establishment guy here

I don't have to get any ink done, wear piercings, or rip my jeans. I just have to avoid church on Sunday, and ditch Family night each Monday. Utahns will get it.

And this way, I'm the laziest protester that ever sat on a sofa. :)

[sakabatou]

15. I would've asked the teacher "How do you know that's true?"

[JerseygirlCT]

16. He acknowledged his mistake, and apologized

Unless it happens again, I think I'd let it be.

[Evoman]

19. Meh, I'd let it go.

If he put up a fight, or attacked back in Jesus Mode, then I would have told you to get tough. But he backed down. Let it go, but keep an open eye.

[Sandrine for you]

20. Your son and you did exactly the right things, and since he apologize, everything is great. nt

[Sal316]

21. I think that was a wise choice.

Allowing your son to deal with it, and the way he did, shows both emotional maturity and good parenting.

Like any other form of harassment, the teacher gets one freebie. Now that he's been told, he can't play ignorant next time. Then you take it up the chain.

[and-justice-for-all]

22. Unacceptable..nt

[demwing]

23. Care to elaborate? /nt

[and-justice-for-all]

24. Well sure, if you insist....

I have no issue with private religious schools teaching their pupils an alternative reality; it is privately funded and they can teach them all the Sunday school nonsense they want.

A teacher in the public education system should not be introducing his/her religiosity upon, what should be assumed, pupils that attend public school come from different backgrounds with their own religion or lack thereof.

Public school is not a church service and teachers need to stick to the curriculum and not take use their position to influence those students. If I had a professor pull that shit with me, I would get up, walk out the door and straight to the headmasters office.