Man Accused of Killing, Dismembering Girlfriend Because She Was a "Warlock"

[rd_kent]

This time, it happens to be Wicca. Last week, it was Christians murdering Muslims in Nigeria. The week before that, Muslims were murdering Jews. The week before that, well, you get the point.

Just goes to show, that ANYONE can use ANY religion as an excuse to do terrible, terrible things.

http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/dailyweekly/2010/02/eric_christensen_accused_of_ki.php

[Name removed]

1. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[old mark]

2. Religion throughout history has been used to justify death and terror

on the "others". Only difference here is it's a different and smaller religion. In a different time and place, he may have become pope.

mark

[rd_kent]

3. And THAT is the scary part.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[old mark]

5. Go to the Seattle site and read the comments there - most people seem to

think this is funny, or don't get the idea at all.

Are they all pinheads in Seattle or do they just smoke too much pot?


mark

[Berry Cool]

7. The commenters are pinheads.

And the people blaming this on "religion"--oh please! This is a cut-and-dried situation in which an abusive, jealous man got pissed off because he found out his girlfriend had had contact with another man--so he killed her. Period. Violent, possessive males are killing women every day. It's an outrage, but if they didn't use religion as their excuse, they'd use something else.

[Berry Cool]

6. Religion is a tool. It is not good or bad in and of itself. It is only what people make it into.

When people choose to use it as a justification for their evil, they do so no differently than someone else who would use some other excuse. It can also be used as a justification for doing good, no differently than some other justification.

Anyone can use religion as an excuse to do terrible things, or great things. The terribleness and the greatness do not come from the religion, but from themselves.

[Deep13]

52. What other excuse is as compelling and as prevelent as religion.

With respect, your hypothesis does not match historical fact. By creating a moral imperative to obey a diety rather than fallible humans (including ones own conscience), those who control the theological discussion can easily make people believe that the most horrific of acts are justified. Evil people do evil things and they don't need religion to do it. That's a fact. Nevertheless, nothing is as effective as religion in making millions of good (or at least nuetral) people commit evil acts. How many in AIDS-ridden Africa have eschewed condoms there because of R. Catholic teachings? How many abortion doctors have been shot by people thinking they are defending babies? How many young women give birth to children they can't care for because religious repression guilts them into not aborting or even about knowing how birth control works? How many educated, middle-class young people have strapped bombs to themselves and committed mass murder in the name of Allah? How many voters will once again vote against their own interests this fall because of Christian "values?"

In the hands of the dishonest and in some cases well-meaning morons, religion is the tool that makes horrific evil possible.

[atreides1]

8. The guy is whacked

The Wiccan Rede is very clear, Do what you will, so long as it harms none.

I'm just starting, and so far none of the books that I have read even recognize the use of blood for any ritual.

[ellenfl]

9. if she was a warlock, doesn't that mean that her bf found out that

she was a he? :smoke:

ellen fl

[RaleighNCDUer]

10. My first thought, too -

back when I was a kid, 'warlock' simply designated a male witch. I guess the definitions have evolved since the 60s.

[Tailormyst]

18. The term means "traitor"

From the Middle English warloghe, from Old English wrloga, oath-breaker : wr, pledge; see wr-o- in Indo-European roots + -loga, liar (from logan, to lie; see leugh- in Indo-European roots).

[Echo In Light]

11. Have fun in prison

[rd_kent]

13. Maybe he will find jesus there, and be rehabilitated!

[Jennicut]

12. It is so incredibly stupid because most religions essentially worship they same God

just put it in different terms. Needless violence for no reason. No religion is any better then any other, they are all very similar really.

[Silent3]

26. The God of the Bible loves dismemberment!

Judges 19:29

And when he was come into his house, he took a knife, and laid hold on his concubine, and divided her, together with her bones, into twelve pieces, and sent her into all the coasts of Israel.

Of course, the man didn't kill the woman himself before dismembering her. That would be barbaric. He let a crowd of rowdy strange gang rape and kill her first, as apparently pleases the Lord.

Well... maybe the crowd killed her first. She did manage to crawl back to the door of the house where the guy was staying, but she couldn't have been very alive at the point when he started chopping her up.

[laconicsax]

62. In a sense, you're absolutely right.

That sense being, of course, that God is a sockpuppet so people are just worshiping their own opinions--the god of egocentrism. In an objective sense however, when someone worships a sun deity and a different moon deity they're not worshiping another religion's Earth deity. When someone worships their river deity, they're not worshiping another religion's vengeful sky deity. This is demonstrated every time someone says something along the lines of, "my god isn't like that."

[Jim__]

14. Looks like the real reason he killed her was plain old jealousy.

There are no good reasons for killing your girlfriend. But as Gold Bar's Eric Christensen proves, there are certainly bad ones.

According to court documents, Christensen, 40, has told police that when he found out his girlfriend, 35-year-old Sherry Harlan, was talking to another man, he forced her to take a Wiccan blood oath, making her promise she'd end all contact. Christensen says he found a text message from the guy on Harlan's phone shortly thereafter, a transgression that he alleges made her a "'warlock,' literally an evil traitor."

...

Christensen has prior convictions for assault, sexual abuse and domestic violence. He currently faces charges of first-degree murder, and for coming up with a piss-poor excuse for taking another person's life.

[rd_kent]

19. Its still his excuse, whether you beleive him or not.

You don't believe Wicca is real? Why not?

[Jim__]

21. In the article, there are quotes around "'warlock,' literally an evil traitor."

So, your conclusion is interpretive:

Christensen says he found a text message from the guy on Harlan's phone shortly thereafter, a transgression that he alleges made her a "'warlock,' literally an evil traitor."

You can consider someone to be an evil traitor without attaching any religious connatation to it. And, if his interpretation of "warlock" is evil traitor, as the quotes imply, we can't be sure either what his reason was or what his excuse was.

[rd_kent]

22. But according to him, his beleifs are just as valid as any other beleif.

He beleives in Wicca, and that is what he says caused him to act in the way he did.

Just because you can find another, quite plausible excuse, does not mean he cannot be right. Do you agree?

[Jim__]

25. Where does he say wicca caused him to act?

[rd_kent]

27. Now you are dancing around the subject.

I guess you don't want to take this line of questioning to its logical conclusion.

[Jim__]

29. I'm not dancing around anything. I'm making the same point I made in post #21.

[rd_kent]

31. But this guy acted because of his beleifs in Wicca. He thought she was a "warlock"

which he obviously believes in.

So I will ask again....


He believes in Wicca, and that is what he says caused him to act in the way he did.

Just because you can find another, quite plausible excuse, does not mean he cannot be right. Do you agree?

[Jim__]

37. See post #36. Christensen denies he murdered her.

So where did he say his beliefs caused him to kill her?

[rd_kent]

40. OMG, you are being willfully obtuse here.

I see that you are just gonna dance around it so I am done with you.

[Jim__]

42. I'm being obtuse? He denies he murdered her.

So, what terrible, terrible thing is he using his religion as an excuse for?

[rd_kent]

43. Ugh, nevermind. You are really just becoming boring now.

[Jim__]

45. I guess reality is less exciting than just blaming everything on religion.

[rd_kent]

47. Keep dancing. Se ya.

[darkstar3]

28. It says in the article he made her take a Wiccan blood oath.

In their religion, breaking of a blood oath is one of the vilest things you can do. This is no different from a Muslim honor killing.

Keep in mind, I'm not saying that either one of them is right, just that there's no difference. And now you have your answer as to how Wicca caused him to act.

[Jim__]

30. What's that? Two Wiccans have posted in this thread and don't know what it is.

Should we also condemn all Scotts, or all ethnic peoples, based on Christensen's other remarks:

Christensen served 12 years in prison for assault, after firing shots at another ex-girlfriend and her new boyfriend. He told investigators back then he was following the tradition of his Scottish ancestors and was "on a blood run".

more...

Maybe this guy is just a sexually insecure loser who is full of shit.

Edited to add link.

[darkstar3]

32. I'm not condemning anyone,

and if you knew anything about Wicca, you would know that the consistency you are so desperately seeking isn't there. The blood oath was explained to me by a local Wiccan, and I'm pretty sure they co-opted it wholesale from a certain sci-fi series I'm rather fond of. Of course, that doesn't make it any less a part of their religious practice.

[Jim__]

33. But the thread is.

Just goes to show, that ANYONE can use ANY religion as an excuse to do terrible, terrible things.

There's a certain truth to that; but only a partial truth. More fully, the truth is: Just goes to show, that ANYONE can use just about ANYTHING as an excuse to do terrible, terrible things.

As noted by Christensen's former claim about being "on a blood run" in the tradition of his Scottish ancestors.

[darkstar3]

34. Weak sauce.

First off, Christensen stated his motives as religious. He MAY be a liar, but that doesn't change the fact that YOU are attempting to ascribe motives to his actions for which you have no proof. You simply wish to remove the religious connotations from this murder. IOW, your point in 14 is irrelevant.

Secondly, Christensen's "former claim" means precisely dick. He could be a recent convert to Wicca. If a local Wiccan Circle actually DID have a ritual of a blood oath and other similar rituals, wouldn't you think a prick like this would be drawn to it?

The bottom line is that you don't KNOW what his motives were, you simply suspect that he is lying. Now if you have anything beyond fairly specious circumstantial evidence to back up that suspicion, I encourage you to post it. Otherwise your bitching is pointless.

And BTW: When someone does something horrible, and they claim that their religion led them to do it, stating simply that they are lying or practicing the religion improperly IS venturing dangerously close to, if not into, the No True Scotsman fallacy.

[Jim__]

36. You're right, I don't know what his motives were. Neither do you.

And, nothing I've read so far has him ascribing his motives to his religion - which has been my point all along.

BTW, the King5 news story states that Christensen denies he even killed her:

In an interview with detectives, Christensen said he suspected Harlan was dating someone new. He told them he and Harlan took a Wiccan blood oath, which is said to link people for eternity

But a few weeks later, Christensen said Harlan got a text message from the other man. He was angry and believed Harlan had broken the oath, making her in his words, a warlock -- an evil traitor.

Christensen says they fought, but he denies murdering her.

So, I'm not sure where you came by your certainty that he claims his religion caused him to kill her.

[MorningGlow]

51. Wiccans don't have blood oaths

I don't know what your friend is practicing, but it is not Wicca.

[darkstar3]

54. Not to get snarky with someone actually affiliated with the faith,

but wasn't it YOU who said on this board not very long ago that Wiccans are not centralized and each Circle has their own tradition?

[MorningGlow]

55. Yes, we do have loose parameters--I'm not denying that

But drawing blood for an oath is definitely NOT something a wiccan would do. There is no need to draw blood to create proper oaths/magic.

Then again, there's also no need to be "skyclad" (naked) in rituals, but a bunch of types of wiccans do that as well, so what the hell. :shrug:

[rd_kent]

35. And maybe he really beleives in Wicca, just like you really beleive in christianity.

Does that make HIS beliefs any less valid than yours?

[Jim__]

39. First, I don't believe in Christianity. Second, I haven't said anything about his Wiccan beliefs.

What I've said is, we don't know that his Wiccan beliefs caused him to kill her.

[rd_kent]

41. Yes we do, he said so.

But you are just being obtuse, so Im done. Have a nice day.

[Jim__]

44. He denies killing her. How can he deny killing her and at the same time ...

... claim that his Wiccan beliefs caused him to do it?

[rd_kent]

46. Dance, dance, dance. Im done with you.

[MorningGlow]

50. Wiccans don't have blood oaths.

Apparently this guy was making things up as he went along. But I can assure you it was NOT anything wiccan.

[Withywindle]

61. My tradition doesn't have blood oaths

But even if it did:

"he forced her to take a Wiccan blood oath" from the article.

you most definitely cannot FORCE anyone to take any kind of oath, and still have it be binding. An oath taken under threat of force or other duress is no oath at all. We're all about the free will in Wicca.

You're talking about the pathology of a jealous, violent, controlling abuser here. He was a Wiccan, so he put it in Wiccan terms (although, again, I don't know of many traditions that use "blood oaths," especially for something so trivial as talking to some other dude). If he were Christian, he would use Christian symbolism to justify it, if Muslim he'd use a Muslim-flavored justification, and if he were atheist, he wouldn't use any religious lingo at all, but he probably still would have killed her. Because religion is NOT the cause of the murder. His pathology is. Abusers are everywhere.

[rd_kent]

23. WHATS UP? Ignoring the tough question posed to you above?

[Jim__]

38. What tough question?

[proteus_lives]

15. Two deleted sub-threads?

That sounds about right.

[rd_kent]

16. Yup, those "christian values" hard at work.....

[Deep13]

49. We have to lie so believers will not get cognitive dissonance. nt

[Tailormyst]

17. As a Wiccan High Priestess I would ask:

What in the heck is a Wiccan Blood Oath? I don't know what was being being practiced, but it was not Wicca.

[rd_kent]

20. How does one become a "Wiccan High Priestess"?

[MorningGlow]

24. +1

News to me too, and I've been a witch for many years.

[Deep13]

48. Yup. People can be horrible without religion, of course...

...but those who are a bit unstable anyway find religion not only justifies, but often compels their actions. And with all the con-artists from Bill Donahue to Pat Robertson to whomever hoping to make a buck off the delusions of others, there is plenty of justification out there.

[humblebum]

53. So who is it that has killed so many in, say, Tibet? nt

[struggle4progress]

56. ... Christensen has prior convictions for assault, sexual abuse and domestic violence ...

from the link in the OP

[struggle4progress]

57. ... Harlan was killed . after Christensen found a . message from another man on her cellphone ...

Christensen told police . Harlan had broken a ". oath" she'd made to break off a relationship with the other man ...

February 1, 2010 8:40 p.m. PT
WA man pleads not guilty in dismemberment case
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/6420ap_wa_woman_dismembered.html?source=mypi

[struggle4progress]

58. ... Harlan's friends and neighbors told police she had been afraid that Christensen would beat her

to a "bloody pulp" if she tried to break up with him ...

Originally published January 29, 2010 at 8:23 PM | Page modified January 29, 2010 at 8:27 PM
Accused killer scattered body parts, prosecutors say
A man who was charged Friday with killing his ex-girlfriend earlier this month asked a friend to drive him around a rural area of Snohomish County so he could dispose of the victim's dismembered body, according to prosecutors.
By Christine Clarridge
Seattle Times staff reporter
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2010932539_harlan30m.html

[struggle4progress]

59. ... Christensen served 12 years in prison for assault, after firing shots at another ex-girlfriend

and her new boyfriend. He told investigators back then he was following the tradition of his Scottish ancestors ...
by ROB PIERCY / KING 5 News
Posted on February 1, 2010 at 4:56 PM
Updated Monday, Feb 1 at 5:35 PM
http://www.king5.com/news/local/Religious-belief-may-have-sparked-brutal-murder-83303037.html

[Odin2005]

60. Religion suck

:puke: