One Million kids under 5 years old die of Malaria every year! 3000 a day!

[KansasVoter]

And if people still think there is a caring, loving, god then they are really not paying attention.

But god helps baseball players hit home runs. I've seen them point to god while running around the bases!

Amazing.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

1. That's why I donate to the Carter Center.

They fight malaria and parasitic diseases that cripple and kill millions of people, and can be treated easily and inexpensively. Like parasitic diseases that can be cured with a 25 cent dose of Ivermectin (Filaribits) a common heartworm medicine you would give your dog.

www.cartercenter.org


GOOD PEOPLE.

[KansasVoter]

3. Thanks! I will give also!!!

[stray cat]

2. What about people who give a damn and are willing to sacrifice to help out?

No caring loving people?

[ironbark]

4. Solutions are available. Why blame a god existent or non?

http://kochfoundation.org.au/mosquitoes.html

“…a new type of mosquito trap catches nearly seven times as many JE mosquitoes as the traditional mosquito trap. Dr David Banks of Australian Biosecurity developed an updraft mosquito trap that incorporates a fan, a CO2 cylinder and a solar-powered 12 volt battery to collect mosquitoes.”


Engineer Uses Solar Energy, Wax, and Human Sweat to Fight Malaria
http://cleantechnica.com/2009/01/31/engineer-uses-solar-energy-wax-and-human-sweat-to-fight-malaria/

Kruer estimates that his invention can be produced for under $10, making it ideal for developing communities around the world.


http://news.cnet.com/MIT-honors-humanitarian-tech-invention/2100-1008_3-6181196.html

Team Malaria Solutions won an Ideas award for its use of Neem, a readily available tree in the mosquito-infested Sahel zone of Africa. Its seeds can be crushed into a powder and sprinkled in ponds to kill mosquito larvae, thereby reducing the spread of malaria.

[skepticscott]

5. Who's blaming a non-existent god?

All the OP is saying is that IF god really did exist in the way that many believers portray him, he's a pretty fucked-up guy, with hideously warped priorities, unworthy of any sort of worship or praise.

[ironbark]

9. Ok. So where do you want to draw the line?

If the hypothetical god is “a pretty fucked-up guy” because of the circumstances of existence…what circumstances would you find acceptable for the hypothetical god to not be considered a “pretty fucked-up guy”?

The absence of death?
The absence of death of innocents?
The absence of pain, suffering and grief?
What is the criteria?

Can you describe the aspects of existence that would need to be eliminated for a hypothetical god to not be considered a “pretty fucked-up guy”?

[skepticscott]

11. The criterion is

that helping spoiled mega-rich athletes hit home runs is less important than preventing innocent children from dying in pain.

If people's hypothetical god worries himself with the former before taking care of the latter..well, you connect the dots.

Of course, what it all really boils down to is that the world looks exactly the way it would if there were no god. Always has.

[ironbark]

13. Ok. So the problem then is not death, pain, suffering or god

but “spoiled mega-rich athletes” thinking that some god is “helping” them stay “spoiled mega-rich athletes” while “innocent children dying in pain”?

Why should anyone give a rats anus what the “spoiled mega-rich athletes” 'think' in these circumstances?

“Of course, what it all really boils down to is that the world looks exactly the way it would if there were no god. Always has.”

Leaving the sole and exclusive responsibility for both the “spoiled mega-rich athletes” and the “innocent children dying in pain” to us/society/humanity/collectively…and we are the “pretty fucked up guys” if we allow/permit/create or encourage these circumstances to continuue.

[skepticscott]

15. Why should anyone give a shit

that millions of Xstian fundies believe that gawd will spend his efforts to help their football team whup the other team if they just pray hard enough or wear the right messages under their eyes, while still letting innocent children die or be raped, beaten or tortured, every day of the year? I'm sure you don't, but it's still a pretty fucked-up deity to get on your knees to.

And yes, it is a pretty fucked-up society where those are human priorities, but unlike these people's hypothetical god (which they permit no criticism of), we humans can't change things with a wave of our hand. If their god actually existed, he'd deserve nothing but scorn.

[ironbark]

18. IF you can establish that “millions of Xstian fundies” are that fanatically football focused

then you might be onto something.

I’m unaware of any data that indicates that the religious are any more prone to fanatical football interest than atheists.
I’m certainly aware that in many countries football itself is a fanatical religion and would clearly prefer to attend the game than attend church.
So I’m not sure how these “millions of Xstian football/fundies” are established/verified.

“I'm sure you don't, but it's still a pretty fucked-up deity to get on your knees to.”

The God of Football?....Yea…fucked up completely…So are the Gods of Drugs, Sex and Rock’n’Roll.
And the Gods of My Big House and My Flash Car, and the Gods of Nationalism, Imperialism and Xenophobia.

“… we humans can't change things with a wave of our hand.”

True, but wether god exists or not it is perfectly apparent that there is going to be no Divine “wave of hand” to “change things”…so how are we/all served by what we ‘think’ about what some football player/fan ‘thinks’ about a hypothetical god?

What good does >that thinking< do us?

“If their god actually existed, he'd deserve nothing but scorn.”

LOL.
Existing/non existing…the notion is going to get a lot of “pretty fucked-up guy” scorn.

I’m wondering to what end? Towards what point or purpose? Other than venting anger at a non existent?

[skepticscott]

21. You really are out of your depth here

If you knew anything about football at all, you'd have a clue how it's regarded in the deep south and the Buybul Belt. And to say: "I’m certainly aware that in many countries football itself is a fanatical religion.." shows that you have no idea at all what you're talking about, never mind understanding what I'm talking about.

And it also seems to have soared over your head that I'm not talking about "The God of Football", but the Xstian god, which a lot of football fans happen to worship. None of the other "gods" you mention are remotely analogous, since none of them are seriously and sincerely regarded by their followers as having created the world in seven days and being Lord of the Universe. smh

"True, but wether god exists or not it is perfectly apparent that there is going to be no Divine “wave of hand” to “change things”…so how are we/all served by what we ‘think’ about what some football player/fan ‘thinks’ about a hypothetical god?" You haven't been paying much attention to Xstian fundies, or this statement would sound as ridiculous to you as it does to me. That's precisely what they believe and pray for on a regular basis.

Sorry to have tried to engage you on a topic that is so beyond your grasp, but it's hard to find one that doesn't any more, so I'm sure you'll understand.

[darkstar3]

16. BINGO!

Of course, what it all really boils down to is that the world looks exactly the way it would if there were no god. Always has.
:applause:

[ZombieHorde]

6. If our world is the result of a god's creation then malaria is the result of a god's creation.

Even if humans were able to cure malaria today, many many people have already perished from this disease.

[laconicsax]

7. Did you forget?

The millions who die from malaria every year aren't attributable to a god, but those who survive are.

[ZombieHorde]

8. Of course. Just winning an Oscar or a football game, but not loosing an Oscar or football game.

If your cancer goes into remission, then it was God, but if you die, then shit just happens.

[ironbark]

10. Same question as 9# n/t

[ZombieHorde]

12. A lot of "rules" would have to be changed. The current "system" is difficult to work with.

A system where one organism would not have to kill another organism to survive would be a great start.

A system where one would not have to fear another.

[ironbark]

14. Ok. Let’s go with a hypothetically “rule-changed-system”.

If we are born into “A system where one organism would not have to kill another organism to survive”…what then?

Do we still have death? Pain? Suffering?

“A system where one would not have to fear another.”

Can you outline or describe such a system?

[ZombieHorde]

17. I am sure we could brainstorm various scenarios.

Perhaps all organisms could be self aware light, traveling in all directions at once through an infinite universe, constantly exploring and learning.

Do you have any ideas?

[ironbark]

19. Disembodied “self aware light”?....Sounds great

Can it be turned off?
Would we still have death? Pain? Suffering?

Could it experience fear, uncertainty?
Take risks, expose itself to danger?
Experience empathy through pain with other “self aware light”?
Is it static or evolving?

Most importantly-
Does it get to go to the bar on friday night, get stupid, start to strobe and fall over?

;-)

“Do you have any ideas?”

Sure, it’s an imagination game I have always played with the kids as they grew up.
Speculating about alternative systems and alternative ways of being.
I love the self aware light idea….but I wonder what might be lost if we started at that point of being rather than (potentially) evolved through material being to get there.

Problem is, when you begin to close off the existing system (or expect a hypothetical god to do so) against fear/pain/suffering/death you cannot satisfy everybody and you eliminate experience and potential evolution/growth/change.

Take fear alone…some people are terrified of snakes and spiders…I grew up catching the former and squashing the latter for mum…I wouldn’t choose to have missed those experiences (or the fear on mums face ;-) to be a “self aware light”. As an adult the idea/potential of evolving into a “self aware light” has some appeal…but Buddhists and others advise I will need to stop squashing spiders to get there.
;-)

I do like your concept though….just wondering what experiential cost it might entail.

[ZombieHorde]

22. We would loose a lot, but we would gain a lot.

We would loose snakes and spiders, but we would gain an infinite universe to explore. We would grow through exploration.

Perhaps we would meet other "races," such as self aware heat or self aware gravity.

[ironbark]

24. A fascinating exposition on an alternative system to gods or natures.

Thanks.

;-)

[Igel]

20. DDT. n/t

[Walk away]

23. I have it on good christian authority from my neighbor that if you believe in god....

you will be healed...even of cancer. Obviously, these children don't love god enough.

[KansasVoter]

25. Wow, no logic there! They are crazy!