Brazilian Archbishop: ''Kids Are Spontaneously Homosexual''

[DeSwiss]

Brazilian Archbishop Says Kids Are 'Spontaneously Homosexual,' According To Report

Huffington Post | BRADLEY BROOKS | 05/ 5/10 07:33 PM | AP


Archbishop Dadeus Grings


RIO DE JANEIRO - A Brazilian archbishop said adolescents are "spontaneously homosexual" and in need of guidance, while society at large is pedophile, according to a Wednesday report. Archbishop Dadeus Grings a conservative priest who has made controversial statements in the past told the O Globo newspaper at a Brazilian bishops conference that society's woes are being reflected in the sex abuse scandal enveloping the Roman Catholic Church.

"Society today is pedophile, that is the problem. So, people easily fall into it. And the fact it is denounced is a good sign," Grings told O Globo. The comments come as the church is under fire for a sex abuse scandal touching all corners of the globe – and three weeks after Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, the No. 2 official at the Vatican, said at a news conference in Chile that the sex scandals were linked to homosexuality and not celibacy among priests.

There have been several cases of priests allegedly abusing children that have surfaced in Brazil in recent months. Father Geraldo Martins, a spokesman for the National Conference of Brazilian Bishops, said Grings would not be made available to elaborate on his comments made Tuesday to O Globo. Martins said he could not confirm the accuracy of the newspaper report, because he said Grings did not make the comments during a press conference, but on the sidelines of the gathering.

Grings is the archbishop of the Porto Alegre diocese, one of the largest in Brazil, which has more Catholics than any other nation. He also serves as the chancellor of the Catholic University of Rio Grande do Sul. Grings denounced the abuse within the church, but he said internal punishment of priests guilty of abuse was sufficient and that police should not be involved.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/05/brazilian-archbishop-says_n_565440.html">MORE

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DeSwiss


http://www.atheisttoolbox.com/">The Atheist Toolbox





"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man
ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus." ~ Thomas Jefferson

[msongs]

1. just maybe its the culture and teaching of the church that's the fault eh? nt

[DeSwiss]

4. It should be pretty clear to most people.....

...that this guy's talking out of his ass. He hasn't a clue about what he's talking about.

- And yet many still listen, as if there was a message in there somewhere.....

[Mz Pip]

8. So what he's saying is

kids just break out in gayness, so the pedophilia just can't be helped either, especially gay pedophilia.

So nothing to see here. Don't call the cops. It can't be helped but we will give those who participate a good talking to.

I think I feel stupid just from having read that. Talk aboaut a rationalization. :eyes:

[DeSwiss]

12. Old, but tried and true.....

...and people have been falling for it -- hook, line and sinker. Everyday. Single. Day.

"The very concept of sin comes from the bible. Christianity offers to solve a problem of its own making!
Would you be thankful to a person who cut you with a knife in order to sell you a bandage?" ~ Dan Barker

[Dorian Gray]

31. I agree, and he isn't the only one who has no clue

what he's talking about. I don't have much of a grasp on the meaning of anything he is saying, either.

[harry_pothead]

2. Trust an old crazy guy in a funny hat to say stuff like that.

Catholic church...more irrelevant by the day.

[DeSwiss]

6. I'm inclined to agree....

- Because it seems the bigger and more audacious the hat -- the greater the CRAZY!

[Lucian]

3. I don't think an archbishop should be telling us what is pedophile.

[laconicsax]

5. Why not?

I would think that someone in his position would be an expert on the subject, if not intimately acquainted with its workings.

[Lucian]

15. I'm sure the archbishop is intimately acquainted with pedophile.

[laconicsax]

18. If that's the case then he probably has a firm grasp of the subject. n/t

[tavalon]

19. Ouch, that's gonna leave a mark!

[DeSwiss]

9. By claiming that ''society is pedophile.....''

...he takes the pressure off The Church. It's an old ploy, and terribly inept one at that. One which attempts to disperse culpability among us all.

- His way, everybody's guilty. So who are we to point fingers???

[tblue]

7. Father, respectfully, STFU!

You clown! There are NO WORDS that can fix this. But, "We're guilty. I'm sorry. Here are the names and details we've been hiding," are the only things you get to say. Other than that, STFU!

[DeSwiss]

10. I wish that would work.

But it won't. Why would it work now? It hasn't after all this time. If they were the Mafia, we'd have indictments by now. No, I think that for justice to have any chance at all, we're going to have to take them into custody just like we do all other criminals. They'll never willingly give up this paradise of riches and limitless sex they've built-up over the centuries. Not unless they believed they were going to lose it all.

- And we're not there yet.....

[Webster Green]

11. Priests are creepy.

:scared:

[DeSwiss]

14. The first religions of prehistoric mankind used it in the beginning.

And it's central to what the religions of today, still are:

- FEAR MONGERS.

[nilram]

13. maybe he's projecting his own feelings on to society?

The shadow within is the boogieman out there?

Dunno, just wonderin.

[DeSwiss]

16. Let's just call what they call it:

- EVIL.

[charlie]

17. Apparently making up shit to make the Church look awesome is his calling

...Dadeus Grings, the archbishop of Porto Alegre, declared that "more Catholics than Jews have died in the Holocaust, but this is not usually told because Jews own the world's propaganda." In a six-page interview that appeared Friday in the Brazilian trade magazine Press & Advertising, Grings went on to say, "How many millions of Catholics were victims of the Holocaust? Twenty-two million? The Jews say they were the major victims but the major victims were the Gypsies, who were exterminated. And they don't mention this"...

http://www.jpost.com/Home/Article.aspx?id=137583

Elsewhere it's reported he reduced the number of Jews murdered to 1 million in the same interview.

[DeSwiss]

20. Yeah I saw that.

- I've got one word for this old fart: DESPICABLE.

[jberryhill]

22. Becoming Pope Score: Nazis-1 Jews-0 /nt

[DeSwiss]

25. ....

[Christa]

21. K & R

Kids are spontaneously atheistic. If only the religious would see this ...

[DeSwiss]

26. Ain't that the truth!

[Angry Dragon]

23. I think of all the people they have hurt over these many years

These men in power have no idea of the god that they profess to love and follow. They are only interested in how much power and riches they can gather in their sleazy greedy hands.

[DeSwiss]

27. Absolutely. But then all it takes is a reading of the bible to learn this.

- Which is why they still have so many followers.....

"I am approached with the most opposite opinions and advice, and by religious men who are certain they represent
Divine Will. I hope it will not be irreverent for me to say, that if it is probable that God would reveal His will to others,
on a point so connected with my duty, it might be supposed He would reveal it directly to me."~ Abraham Lincoln

on edit: spelling

[Angry Dragon]

29. Thank you for the quote

[DeSwiss]

30. You're most welcome.

Here's the full quote:

The subject presented in the memorial is one upon which I have thought much for weeks past, and I may even say for months. I am approached with the most opposite opinions and advice, and that by religious men, who are equally certain that they represent the Divine will. I am sure that either the one or the other class is mistaken in the belief, and perhaps in some respects both. I hope it will not be irreverent for me to say that if it is probable that God would reveal his will to others, on a point so connected with my duty, it might be supposed he would reveal it directly to me; for, unless I am more deceived in myself than I often am, it is my earnest desire to know the will of Providence in this matter. And if I can learn what it is I will do it! These are not, however, the days of miracles, and I suppose it will be granted that I am not to expect a direct revelation. I must study the plain physical facts of the case, ascertain what is possible and learn what appears to be wise and right. The subject is difficult, and good men do not agree. ~ Abraham Lincoln

http://showcase.netins.net/web/creative/lincoln/speeches/faithquotes.htm">link

[mrbarber]

24. "Spontaneously Homosexual"

Best name for a band ever.

[DeSwiss]

28. ....

:rofl:

[CatholicEdHead]

32. Sounds like he bought into the "Perfect Society" seminary propaganda

hook line and sinker. The Institutional Church can do, and never has done anything wrong goes the saying in conservative seminary circles and above. This is trying to put the blame on outside forces, that evil society. :crazy: :puke:

[struggle4progress]

33. Nobody in this thread ever read Freud or heard of "polymorphous perversity"?

I weep for today's generation

[darkstar3]

34. Freud was an old fraud

whose deep-seated biases wormed their way into every aspect of his theories. The man may have pioneered diagnostic psychology, but nearly every complex or theory he put forward has since been debunked.

This includes:
Oedipal/Electra complexes
Penis envy
The concept of a standard homosexual phase reflected by oral fixation
Even the Ego, Superego, and Id. (While successful as introductory teaching concepts, these ideas espouse the view of subconscious divisions that don't exist.)

[trotsky]

36. Hey, you know, when you're desperate to defend church hierarchy...

over the morality of evil, foul SECULARISTS, well, you gotta try every trick in the bag.

[struggle4progress]

37. The jumbled plasticity of human sexuality is well-established,

however we evaluate Freud many decades later. A significant fraction of humans have some homoerotic experience in adolescence, even if they later self-identify as heteroerotic

[darkstar3]

38. Another tangent from you...quel surprise.

We were discussing Freud, remember? You thought it was sad that people apparently were unaware of Freud's theories on this subject...(which was a tangent in itself)

Now that I point out that Freud is considered nearly worthless in today's psychiatric circles, you want to throw the Freud discussion to the side?

Which is it, s4p? Do you want to discuss Freud and his stupidity, or don't you?

[struggle4progress]

39. This thread is filled with attacks on the bishop's claim that children are spontaneously homnosexual

I can't read the original language and so can't assess his full comments in context

However, the polymorphous nature of human sexuality, that Freud long ago noticed, appears to be an established fact, supported by decades of subsequent research -- and it appears that this variable nature rather commonly expresses itself in adolescent sexual experimentation

So (although I cannot be sure exactly what the bishop's views are) it seems entirely possible to me that some of what he said is entirely correct and defensible

[darkstar3]

40. So you don't want to talk about Freud.

As for the polymorphous nature of human sexuality, I'll need to see a link to those studies Professor Google.

Not that it matters, since the phrase "spontaneously homosexual" is an oxymoron. Homosexuals are attracted to people of the same gender. Heterosexuals are attracted to people of the opposite gender. Anyone attracted to people of both genders for any length of time qualifies as neither hetero nor homo, but occupies that treacherous middle ground* known as bisexuality.

Spontaneous homosexuality doesn't exist.

*That middle ground is far more populated than most suspect. As Ron White said, "We're all gay, buddy. It's just to what extent are you gay."

Kinsey's scale isn't perfect, but it's closer to the truth. One end is gay, the other is straight, and everywhere in the middle is a shade of gray, where most people happen to fall.

[trotsky]

41. So you think the common tendency for children of the same sex to form playgroups...

is an expression of human sexuality?

You really believe that?

[struggle4progress]

42. I think putting words in other peoples' mouths is an unattractive discussion style

[darkstar3]

43. I feel the same way about mass injections of tangentially related subject matter.

[struggle4progress]

44. I merely noted some of what the bishop said might have a factual basis

[trotsky]

48. Does this have a factual basis?

Last year, he outraged Jewish groups in Brazil by telling a magazine that "more Catholics than Jews died in the Holocaust, but this isn't known because the Jews control the world's media."

[struggle4progress]

52. Of course, the media comment would suggest he's an ignorant asshole

WWII was an overwhelming social catastrophe, in which 60 million people perished. Nazi anti-semitism was a particular and peculiar horror, and the victims of the extermination camps were disproportionately "Jewish", but it is also true that a very large number of other persons died in the extermination camps -- and also outside them. Exact numbers are unknowable; estimates range by (say) a factor of two. Reading such translations as I can find of Grings' remarks on that subject, I do not find they help us understand who the Nazis were or what they hoped to accomplish. Still, remembering that the extermination camps included a variety of ethnic groups, civilians from war zones, prisoners of war, the disabled, sexual minorities, Jews, Jehovah's Witnesses, Catholic priests &c&c may help us to understand more accurately the totalitarian state

[trotsky]

55. The media comment?

You mean the QUOTE?

Do you also believe "the Jews control the world's media"?

[darkstar3]

56. At last count,

there were approximately 10 million people considered actual Holocaust victims. Many more people died during WWII, but those were victims of war and battle, including 22 million Russians who died on the field or of wounds sustained there.

So, 10 million "undesirables" died in the holocaust. Six million of those were Jews.

(Of course, it's difficult to be sure of these numbers because we're not entirely sure we found all of the mass graves, or even that we have the exact number of people buried in those graves. However, 10 million Holocaust victims, at this time, seems to be the prevailing historical wisdom taught at local schools in my area.)

The Holocaust didn't kill 20 million people, let alone over 20 million Catholics (who the Germans actually liked, BTW), so what we have here is yet another high ranking Catholic official who is full of shit. And I will say this with as much emphasis as I can muster: It doesn't matter whether Grings' remarks on WWII help us better understand the Nazis or not, since he is simply attempting to whitewash history and attack Jews in the same breath.

Now, let's see if we can get anything close to a straight and simple answer of you: The two major statments made by this Archbishop and discussed in this thread are simple attempts to deflect criticizm from and to stir empathy for the Catholic Church. True or False?

[darkstar3]

50. By referencing an old fraud,

and buying into a phrase that has absolutely no meaning, as noted above.

[trotsky]

45. But that's what the bishop believes.

Do you, since your first reaction is to defend him?

[struggle4progress]

46. I can't find any reference to playgroups in the OP or the linked HuffPo article

Perhaps you could back up your assertion with a link, preferentiably to the bishop's original statement in Portuguese

[trotsky]

47. You must not have read them, then.

The archbishop also said it was important to help children avoid homosexuality.

"We know that the adolescent is spontaneously homosexual. Boys play with boys, girls play with girls," he said. "If there is no proper guidance, this sticks. The question is – how are we going to educate our children to use a sexuality that is human and suitable?"

[struggle4progress]

49. I expect "play with" is a polite euphemism in context:

We know that the adolescent is spontaneously homosexual. Boys play with boys, girls play with girls ... The question is – how are we going to educate our children to use a sexuality that is human and suitable?

Anyone who had frank discussions with enough high school friends can read between the lines there.

[trotsky]

51. You wish.

It's sad the lengths to which you'll go to defend this cretin.

[struggle4progress]

53. I try to take the view that there are usually options beyond

"Agree completely with what X says" and "Disagree completely with what X says"

or between

"Always agree with X" and "Always disagree with X"

[trotsky]

54. So you like double standards, then?

Cool!

[ChadwickHenryWard]

35. Weak tea.

The Church attempts to position itself as moral leadership for the entire world. A moral leader does not blame others for his own moral shortcomings. The Church is supposed to be a shining light, an example for the rest of us. Saying they are not better, and in fact caused to be bad because of, the rest of us, doesn't fly.

Also, the assertion that priests should not be subject to secular authority is disturbing, especially in light of the fact the the Church's internal response has been inadequate. The clergy need to be subject to the same laws as the rest of us.