How Many Christians Feel Persecuted Here?

[stepnw1f]

Poll question: How Many Christians Feel Persecuted Here?

Is DU unwelcoming to Religious folk, especially Christians?

[LiberalVoice]

1. No

There are plenty of practicing Christians on DU.

[swimboy]

2. People tend to confuse being criticized with being persecuted.

I don't think there is any persecution here because I don't equate castigation and disrespect with persecution.

[stepnw1f]

4. Thank You

Neither do I. But since some folks here seem a bit tight around the collar, I felt it necessary to speak up for them and get this out into the open.

[Perky]

7. A better poll question might have been

Is Christian-bashing different than hate-speech?

[stepnw1f]

10. You Are Now On Ignore Stalker (nt)

[Perky]

5. That is COrrect

alot of the stuff that happens here is ugly and there is certainly a goof bit of tar and feathering of all CHristians which is unforntuant and sometime it crosses a line in to out-n-out hate speech in my view...but I would not call it persecution.

[porphyrian]

21. Well, let's look at the definitions.

crit·i·cize (krt-sz) v. crit·i·cized, crit·i·ciz·ing, crit·i·ciz·es
v. tr.

1. To find fault with: criticized the decision as unrealistic.

2. To judge the merits and faults of; analyze and evaluate.


per·se·cute (pûrs-kyt)tr.v. per·se·cut·ed, per·se·cut·ing, per·se·cutes

1. To oppress or harass with ill-treatment, especially because of race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, or beliefs.

2. To annoy persistently; bother.


I don't see the two as mutually exclusive, and I'd say they both occur here. We're a diverse and often passionately-opinionated group. If you don't want your beliefs challenged, don't bring them up. There are plenty of places to find sycophantic reassurement, this isn't usually one of them.

[Zhade]

37. Actually, it's worse - people confuse criticizing their religion...

...with bashing them.

We're not criticizing the believers themselves for being believers. When it's pointed out that there is no evidence for some outlandish takes insisted to be true, that is NOT bashing a believer.

Some refuse to acknowledge that in their rush to play the victim, however. I think that does both sides a disservice.

[arwalden]

39. The Ones Who Feel "Persecuted" Are Likely The Ones...

... who--for whatever reason--are unable to separate themselves from the religion. If someone scorns the religion, then there are those who feel "personally" scorned. If someone ridicules a church leader, then similarly, there are some who feel "personally" ridiculed.

I also suspect that there are many others who--while they don't ACTUALLY feel insulted--will *pretend* to be personally insulted and "persecuted" because they know they can get a lot of sympathy and mileage from it.

Those are the folks who use it to control the message by silencing the dissenting voice of nonbelievers and anyone else who is critical of religion or bigoted church policies.

[beam me up scottie]

43. rAmen.

[skylarmae]

3. I'm a Christian, I love it here..

[LynneSin]

6. Only way we can be persecuted is if we let them

I get pissed as hell sometimes at the negativity towards Christianity. And when I see it you better believe I'll chime in with my rant about how wrong this is.

[July]

24. LynneSin, could you expand on this thought?

I have been enjoying your posts for some time now, so when I say I feel negatively towards Christianity, I'm not trying to rile you up. I don't really get why you would say it's "wrong." Don't we each get to decide for ourselves what we think of a cultural phenomenon, institution, or movement?

I would like to understand your point of view.

[arwalden]

41. Why Is It Wrong When So Much Of It Is Deserved?

[triguy46]

8. Persecuted? Nope.

This is a frequent issue among the fundies, they whine and cry about being 'persecuted.' I have yet to see anyone stoned to death, crucified, burned at the stake, imprisoned, enslaved in this country because of their religious beliefs. I feel that the "P" word demands a historical perspective. Any thing less is just irritation.

On this site there are frequent heated discussions re: Christianity, and as a Christian I sometimes feel outnumbered, but never persecuted.

[ret5hd]

29. outnumbered? I'd bet way better than e ven money...

that the theists WAY outnumber the atheists here. we may be vocal trying to get our voices heard over the din, but there's still way more of you than of us.

[triguy46]

31. And we both need each other if we are going to oust the fascistas. n/t

[dickthegrouch]

32. Well, I'd like to see some freepers put away for just that

Anyone who thinks being stoned to death, crucified, burned at the stake, imprisoned, enslaved is a valid way to change someone's attitude deserves to be persecuted.

But an the whole I don't consider them real Christians. That's why I use the "KKKristian" to differentiate.

I was a Christian, but ended up so despising what a majority of the people around me who claimed the same beliefs were actually doing and saying about me, that I had to rethink my attitudes. I am now a very well balanced Buddhist.

[tx_dem41]

9. I'm an Atheist....and I feel a significant and very vocal minority on ..

this forum is definitely hostile to Christianity in general.

[beam me up scottie]

45. I'm hostile to organized religion, especially christianity.

As an atheist, this is more than justified.

Why is that a problem?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

11. How the bloody hell can a majority be persecuted?

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

13. And...

Why are polls being run on Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell-generated talking points designed to lend a certain nobility to their political power grab?

[rzemanfl]

16. It is happening right now in this country as the rich screw us over

with the active assistance of our government. Unfortunately, a lot of so-called "Christians" have been convinced by Repukes to act against their own self-interest by the disingenuous pandering to their more extreme beliefs by people who really couldn't give a shit more or less and are out only for themselves. That's why I have a problem with Christians in general these days. We are in the middle of the gazillionth "religious" war humanity has engaged in and I confess I'm a little tired of that. People should be free to believe whatever they want as long as it doesn't harm others, lately that line has been crossed and we are all suffering whatever we choose to believe or not believe.

[hughee99]

19. Ask the people of South Africa... n/t

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

33. See post 20

[UncleSepp]

20. A majority in power, no less

It's possible for a majority to be persecuted by a minority when the minority has all the power, but for a majority with power to claim persecution from a minority without it is just silly.

[GreenPartyVoter]

12. I get tired of getting thrown out with the bathwater by some folks who are

anti-religion. But that doesn't make me feel persecuted, just annoyed at most.

[Jose Diablo]

14. No, I don't feel persecuted at all

People disagree, sometimes quite vocally, but so what?

Actually, I enjoy mentally sparring with atheists. They are worthy opponents to be sure. Nor do I hold a grudge if I seem to get the worse end of a discussion. I figure that many times what they say and believe has a lot to do with things they have experienced. If they don't believe as I do, they have very good reasons for their beliefs.

It is actually about faith, so how can anyone really convince another about anything having to do with faith. It's not possible. It's either there or the unwillingness to have it is there. Nothing I can say or do will change that reality. Actually, its not about me anyway.

Thick skin is something needed here on DU to be sure.

[jsamuel]

15. The title and the subject are asking two different questions that cause my

answer to change...

[murielm99]

17. No.

Atheists can disagree with me all they want. I don't feel persecuted by it.

Most of us share disgust with the fundie wingnuts, the CINOs. They deserve it.

[marbuc]

28. I think many fail to distinguish between brands of Christianity

I respect Christianity, and I'm sure the majority of DUers do also. I do not respect the RW theocrats that want their version of the bible to be law of the land, at the expense of people of alternative faiths and belief systems, and those with values and lifestyles that contradict their world view.

[atfqn]

18. Persecuted is a bit strong.

Overall, in my limited personal experiences the most devout and fervent supporters of Christianity have also been rabid supporters of the shrub. Does this taint my image of Christians? Yes, yes it does. It seems more than a little hypocritical; these people are all about loving thy neighbor with depleted uranium, incendiary, 50 caliber cocktails.

Fortunately there are few of such people on this board, and when I step into the forum I feel like I personally have an uneasy tolerance of overly religious innuendo or postings. It goes no farther than that though because all of us share one thing together it is that we are all liberal and we can tolerate each others’ views without starting a confrontation or making people feel unwelcome.

[swimboy]

30. Welcome to DU, atfqn!

:hi:

[atfqn]

49. Thanks :)

It is great that community members like yourself welcome new memebers.

[distantearlywarning]

22. I am a Christian and I feel very welcome here.

But then again, I don't assume that someone else's dislike of Christians or personal hang-ups or bitterness or whatever has anything to do with me whatsoever. I always just assume it's their problem and don't worry too much about it. My ego isn't bound up in my religion and therefore isn't affected by what other people think about it.

And anyway, I can certainly understand why some people are so uptight about Christians given the number of Pharisees in today's world. Sometimes I am ashamed to be a Christian myself because of those kinds of people (CINOs - Christians in name only).

What I have seen on DU sometimes that bugs me more than Christian-bashing is a tendency for people who identify with certain groups or religions to get hysterically and irrationally upset when someone else disagrees with the viewpoint they have invested part of themselves in. That's when the flame wars and nasty dialogue starts up - when the "insert-fanatical-cause-here" people get mortally offended and start calling names and slinging mud. Civil dialogue about an issue is one thing, but if you find yourself getting furiously angry with another poster because they eat meat or are an atheist, it's time to back away from the keyboard and have a time-out where you think hard about why you are so threatened by the opinions of faceless internet denizens.

[Midlodemocrat]

23. I don't think so.

I feel welcome here, and I am a practicing Roman Catholic. I have gotten into discussions before about the Church and its stand on certain things, but for the most part the discussions have been very civil.

I also had a very interesting exchange after the Pope died with a very vocal member of DU who is an atheist. I was trying to understand the concept of atheism, which is very foreign to me, given how I was raised and what I believe.

The exchange was cordial, friendly, even and I learned a great deal.

[meganmonkey]

25. Self delete

[KG]

26. some feel 'persecuted'?

please.

[jonnyblitz]

34. i am beginning to think it's a requirement. nt

[arwalden]

40. ~

:thumbsup:

[beam me up scottie]

46. Jonny,

you ought to come around here more often.
:evilgrin:

[More Than A Feeling]

27. It's not as bad as 'persecution'.

Yeah, I've read posts from some who I perceived as hating Christianity and/or religion. Yeah, its irritated me, but I used to put people like that on ignore, and i found that out of 70,000 accounts, there were maybe twenty who would express such sentiments.

I think the main problem here is that some people think you can attack a religion without attacking its followers, and some think that if you attack one, you attack the other.

If even that is too much, there are other boards. Christianforums.com is all Christianity, all the time, for those who feel so inclined. Beliefnet.com is all things religious, including a ton of message boards.

[Dorian Gray]

35. I don't feel persecuted at all...

I feel like some people can be quite condescending towards Christians, but then I feel like it goes both ways. I would like to see everyone be a little bit NICER to everyone else, regardless of our beliefs. We can learn a lot from one another.

Having said that, I think claims of "persecution" on these boards is ridiculous.

[txaslftist]

36. I don't feel unwelcome. So long as I don't mention my religion.

[beam me up scottie]

44. I wonder why the majority seem to feel more than welcome.

Perhaps it's because they don't tell non-christians they are morally superior to them?

[Maat]

50. Check out the Liberal Christians DU Group ..

and the Seekers on Unique Paths DU Group.

You have to have a donor star to post, but the sentiment is good.

I'm a Religious Scientist myself, so I'm definitely in the minority ( www.rsintl.org ).

We are Universalists, and honor all paths.

And I support my atheist friends AND my liberal Christian friends (as well as my Buddhist friends, my Pagan friends, etc.).

I guess I've NEVER felt persecuted on DU; I have engaged in some spirited discussions. I have gotten out of threads quickly that just seemed to involve a few people being hostile to each other, pointlessly.

Just my two cents' worth.

[shrike]

38. Is there a category for those who wish this shit would go away?

Apparently not.

[DanCa]

42. No I dont and heres why.

A) People have the right to vent
B) Usually it's displaced anger at the fundies.
c) I have not been personally attacked for praying for a cure for my parkinson's or going to church.

[nemo137]

47. Sometimes irritated, perhaps, but not persecuted

I mean, being told that I have an imaginary friend in the sky, and being told that I am childish for holding a belief in a deity can get a bit old, but to quote from another message board I like, "Christians have had it so good for so long in this country, they wouldn't recognize persecution if it jumped up and bit them in the butt."

[EST]

48. We partigipate it DU by invitation, voluntarily.

If participation is entirely voluntary, with the participant free to leave at any time, persecution is automatically off the table.

Edited to add: "Feeling" persecuted is also easily curable. No one, outside one's self, can be held responsible for how one feels.