Why does the Catholic Church excommunicate people?

[Nikia]

I don't mean to be offensive to Catholics, I was just wondering. Over a decade ago, my mother's opponent for a local office was rumored to have been excommunicated from the Catholic Church. My mother, thinking that it was too personal of a subject, didn't bring it up during the campaign. I imagined that it must have been for something rather bad in this day and age. I have seen posts suggesting that some DUers have been excommunicated though. I just wondered why the Church would officially throw someone out in modern America.

[Lefty48197]

1. Most talk of excommunication comes from Protestant Republicans

that's been my experience. Everytime a Catholic Democrat runs for office, you get the Falwells and the DeLays talking about them being Excommunicated.

[Reverend_Smitty]

2. technically if you get a divorce

you are excommunicated from the church...you aren't allowed to re-marry in the church unless you had your first marriage annulled

[sallyseven]

6. That statement is not true. you have to do something

really bad to have that happen. Like let it be known that you had an abortion or condoned one. Silly stuff like that. You can belong to the Mafia and still be in good graces of "the church" Ray Patricia a maria head in New England got a very catholic burial. His son will also. If you call the bishop a name or the cardinal a name this is excommunication material. It is a big joke.

[TexasProgresive]

8. Condoning an abortion is

not enough- facilitate (as in driving the patient to the clinic) is the ticket to excommunication.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

3. psychological - if they make it seem exclusive, it becomes more important

As though the church can put people to death anymore. Partly, its use today is a historical appendage, partly it is an effort to regain its power.

Of course, during the Dark Ages, (as Will and Arial Durrant wrote) excommunication was frequently accompanied with torture, loss of life or worse.

Some christian historians tried to reframe and relabel it as the Middle Ages, pointing out that not all societies installed organized terror and crowd control as a way of life, just the christian ones. In fact, some of the most enlightened times in China, parts of Africa, and in the Americas existed at this time.

excommunication was the tool of absolute control - something that people, in their ignorance, readily submitted to. Only the priests were literate, and only the church could control foreign affairs, war, taxation and politics. Being thrown out of the "in group" was a fate that controlled not only your ability to work or feed yourself, it also doomed your eternal soul to damnation and brimfire. There was a little issue of your entire family suffering your fate that also came into play.

Other sects, especially leaders in many present day sects, have looked at the incredible control over the individual gained (and enforced) by the Church in the Dark Ages, and they salivate. Fear, control, money, power, all at your fingertips. That is why education is such a danger to all sects, all religions, all inerrant beliefs. Logic, when applied to faith, always shows just how silly the basis is.

I suspect that some in the bush administration have looked over the hows and the whys, and have applied them, in a modern fashion, to the US, especially after 9/11. The color-coding terra-ist levels, their frequent elevation, for one (and their coincidental timing), and the reflexive labeling of any dissent as anti-patriotic, evil, and providing aid to the enemy.
Bush's "either you are with us or are the enemy" was just the kind of stuff the Church used in the 1200s, but there, your immortal soul was at risk according to their PR spin. The Bushes haven't been able to make that connection yet, much as they tried.

[Not Me]

15. I was excommunicated in 1998

along with almost 1800 others from my RC church in Rochester NY for schism. Basically, our church allowed women a place on the altar, allowed persons other than the priest-celebrant to read the gospel, performed gay committment ceremonies, and provided communion to non-catholics.

The local bishop--fairly progressive--looked the other way for quite a long time, which irritated others in the area who were more conservative. They in turn, spied on our services, videotaped them and communicated this with Rome...interestingly, Cardinal Ratzinger's office. That's when the Vatican applied big time pressure on the local authorities. The pastor and the entire parish staff were fired. The facilities were withdrawn, and the congregation found other progressive churches who allowed us to meet in their facilities.

The new church which formed out of this all is vibrant and healthy; and operates in the Catholic tradition.

For more info see:
http://www.spirituschristi.org/history.html

[enlightenment]

4. Here's an explanation from the Catholic Encyclopedia.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05678a.htm

Complicated, apparently.

Here's a "short list" from Wikipedia:

<snip>
There are a few offenses for which Latin Rite Roman Catholics are automatically excommunicated (the Latin term is Latæ Sententiæ):

1. Apostasy,
2. Heresy,
3. Schism,
4. Desecration of the Eucharist,
5. Physical force against the Pope,
6. Attempted sacramental absolution of a partner in adultery,
7. Ordination of a bishop without a Papal mandate,
8. For those present in the conclave, revelation of the details of the conclave,
9. Simoniacal provision of the Papal office,
10. Violation of the sacramental seal of confession by a priest or bishop, and
11. Procurement of a completed abortion.
<snip>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excommunication

[Inland]

13. So if I, say, kill an abortionIST and his entire family and pets

I'm not automatically excommunicated, whereas the abortionist is already out the door?

In fact, it seems as if abortion is the ONLY substantive sin making excommunication automatic. All the others are definitive steps contrary to the belief system (heresy, apostasy, desecration) or contrary to the church itself (against the Pope, ordination of bishops, buying a papacy) or some act contrary to solemn oaths necessary to fulfill the duties of the priesthood. In other words, crimes against the system itself that requires a removal from the system.

Abortion is the only sin as sin that is punished automatically with excommunication.

[enlightenment]

18. Beats me, kiddo -- I'm a skeptic from the get-go--

also a teacher, which accounts for my Pavlovian response to "does anyone know . . .?" posts.
:crazy:
Seriously, though, it is fascinating what counts and what doesn't.

[noahmijo]

5. Why does ALL of Organized Religion follow nothing of their noble teachings

and obey the disgusting Old Testament/The Koran says you shall burn aspect of their so called religions?


Don't even try to convince me otherwise. The numbers and the history speaks for itself and EVERY SINGLE RELIGION is completely and utterly guilty*


*Buddhism is not a religion it is a philosophy.

[ExclamationPoint]

10. I agree that the leaders do

but it's over-generalizing to say that all of the followers deny the original basis' for their religion. But that's what they do to gain power.
ps. i think you're referring to the major religions,because that doesn't really apply to Wicca or druidism etc.

[Zambero]

7. Anymore, excommunication is about as common as levitation

In the Catholic Church anyway. Seems like I recall hearing that the last RC to be excommunicated was Fidel Castro, decades ago. Apparently, the term still gets bandied about by RW fundies for political purposes. I also don't want to be offensive to Mormons, but it is my understanding that the LDS/Mormon Church still uses excommunication as a means to punish "wayward" members. When my mother-in-law's (LDS) husband passed away, the church pressured her to continue tithing. When she refused for personal reasons, she was eventually summoned before a "church court", read the riot act, and excommunicated. As she relates it, she thanked them for their trouble and hasn't heard a peep from them in over 30 years.

[msongs]

9. FEAR used to control the ignorant, from the dark ages........

back when the catholic church controlled everything in europe the church used fear, hate, and lies, murder, rape, and torture to control ignorant people who were sure they would go to hell if they were kicked out of the church.

then one day people woke up and said to themselves, the church is promoting fairy tales as if they were true. there is nothing to fear by opposing the church.

Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

[marew]

11. I believe there are a variety of things.

Most of these exist, I believe, in the manmade law of the church called Cannon Law. For instance, many centuries ago Galileo was excommunicated for teaching the earth revolved around the sun. He was forgiven and taken back into the church only a few years ago. A little behind the times maybe. My feeling, having gone through Catholic schools through my first year of college, is that overall Cannon law has little to do with actual morality in the usual sense, but rather violating Church law. For instance, if a divorced catholic remarries outside the church, they are excommunicated. If I found out someone was excommunicated, I would not think twice about it. I am sure whatever it was, it was no big deal. Some of Cannon law is so out of date and appears to be merely a document to preserve the ancient, misguided beliefs of an outdated church. In fact, a good friend of mine, a former priest who was ordained in Ireland in the early 70's, told me one seminarian was refused ordination because he had only one testicle. I couldn't even make that one up!

[43770]

12. Excommunication

Excommunication is a form of censure for violating rules or standards of Catholicism. For example, since the official Catholic stance is Pro-Life, a woman who has an abortion can be excommunicated. This means she cannot take the Eucharist or receive other Sacraments. However, this is not intended to be an eternal punishment. Rather, it is intended to lead the person to repentance. Once they repent, they will be welcomed back into the fold.

It is not uniquely Catholic. Jehovah's Witnesses, Mennonites, Mormons, and many Bible-based churches all have some form of excommunication or official censure. For example, a Baptist who has been caught having an affair might be approached in private by the person who knows. If he continues in his adultery, the pastor will talk to him about it. If he still maintains his adulterous relationship, he may be asked to leave the church (until he stops having the affair). Although most Protestants do not call it excommunication, the end result and reasons are the same. The person loses "fellowship" with the group to keep the problem or issue from growing into something more malignant. For example, everyone in town knows Bill is having an affair, but the Pastor doesn't say or do anything about it. Outsiders looking in (and some insiders even), will look and say, "Hmm, what a bunch of hypocrites. Ol' Bill is having an affair but acts so pious on Sunday, blah blah blah."

As for your wondering "why the Church would officially throw someone out in modern America." The Catholic Church is not subject to American society or its mores. While American Catholicism is much more liberal than Roman Catholicism, it is still a society of its own, with its own rules, regulations, and methods of castigation. Just as American society has its own methods of punishing those who break accepted social norms. For example, someone who makes racist jokes at work may be ostracized or fired. Groups like the Southern Poverty Law Center and the ADL also work as agents to censure groups who hold certain socially unacceptable views by publishing information on them and their members.

Hopefully this answers your question.

[Midwest_Doc]

14. I may be wrong, but

I seem to remember a bishop in Nebraska who was excommunicating people for belonging to the Masons.

[mikehiggins]

17. Regarding Masons

Yeah, Bishop Brucewitz(?) made a big deal out of Masonry in his area for some reason that beggars understanding. He made some headlines in the Catholic press (and among Masons) but it came to nothing in the end. The cost of excommunicating thousands of people, as well as the loss of church income from those kicked out, seemed to put a damper on the whole episode.

Of course, I may be wrong since I live in NYC where few, if any, of the RC spokespeople give a rats ass about Masonry at all. American Freemasonry has no problem with the Catholic church at all and most New York clerics are well aware of that fact. The days when priests would rail against Catholic kids being treated in Shriner hospitals because the Shrine is connected with Freemasonry seem to be happily behind us, even with the new Pope in Rome.

[mikehiggins]

16. As far as I know as a Catholic, there are no more "sutomatic"

excommunications. You have to really screw up big time for the Church to even consider invoking the big "E", though abortion might well fit the parameters. As others have said in this thread, the whole thing is usually brought up by people like Falwell, et al, who actually don't consider Catholics as Christians in the first place. This, naturally, makes their call for excommunications just one more in the seemingly endless strings of hypocracies they spin like bloated evil spiders.

Hey, I like that one. ;^)

[CatholicEdHead]

19. Offically, yes

though there are many writings out there about "automatic excommunications" by just your beliefs. This has often been used against Catholic Democrats and any supporters of them. In that if you do not agree with the abortion issue 100% of the Church's definition, you are automatically excommunicated and no offical process is necessary.

It is a power grab on the definition of "Catholic". These writings are just some ultra-tradtionalist theologicans and are not offical policy at the present.

Even at this late date way after the 2004 election the push to get Kerry et al offically excommunicated continues by the DeFide group of Canon lawyers.

http://www.defide.com/

[Silverhair]

20. All voluntary organization have the "power of the gate".

It is really, the only power that they have.

Let's say you start a club seriously dedicated to the idea that MM was the most beautiful actress ever. Member X joins your club. Later X begins to promote actress CB as most beautiful ever. You talk to member X and he will not change his mind. Do you keep him a member of your club?

Do you see the idea behind removal?

I comes from the book of 1st Corthinians. The early church there had a member who was bringing disrepute to them by openly practicing a flagrant sin. His behaviour showed that he did not truly support what the church was all about. He was removed from membership.

Would you keep in the Democratic Party, some one who openly supported the Republicans all the time?