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varkam (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-19-06 01:03 AM Original message |
Free Will |
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ThoughtCriminal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-19-06 01:12 AM Response to Original message |
1. It's the time aspect that makes it hard to grasp. |
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beam me up scottie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-19-06 01:14 AM Response to Original message |
2. Ummmmmmmmm, |
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Erika (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-19-06 01:42 AM Response to Reply #2 |
4. We are becoming true strangers in a strange land |
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beam me up scottie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-19-06 02:00 AM Response to Reply #4 |
6. LOL !!! |
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Erika (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-19-06 01:41 AM Response to Original message |
3. It's like God has a crystal ball. |
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varkam (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-19-06 01:43 AM Response to Reply #3 |
5. Catalyst? n/t |
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WritingIsMyReligion (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-19-06 03:12 PM Response to Reply #5 |
33. The starter, the spark to the engine. n/t |
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TreasonousBastard (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-19-06 02:02 AM Response to Original message |
7. I don't blame you for being confused, since... |
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varkam (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-19-06 02:08 AM Response to Reply #7 |
8. On controlling the future |
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Erika (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-19-06 02:21 AM Response to Reply #8 |
11. So you believe in a crystal ball? |
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beam me up scottie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-19-06 02:27 AM Response to Reply #11 |
13. He doesn't believe in any of it. |
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Erika (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-19-06 02:33 AM Response to Reply #13 |
16. There are no right or wrong answers |
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beam me up scottie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-19-06 03:04 AM Response to Reply #16 |
22. Gotcha. |
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TreasonousBastard (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-19-06 02:31 AM Response to Reply #8 |
15. But you wouldn't do otherwise... |
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varkam (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-19-06 02:37 AM Response to Reply #15 |
18. So then you're saying that... |
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TreasonousBastard (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-19-06 02:48 AM Response to Reply #18 |
20. Still missing the point... |
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varkam (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-19-06 03:06 AM Response to Reply #20 |
23. Maybe I am... |
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TreasonousBastard (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-19-06 03:56 AM Response to Reply #23 |
26. The confusion is between... |
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varkam (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-19-06 04:14 AM Response to Reply #26 |
27. Right, but... |
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TreasonousBastard (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-19-06 04:44 AM Response to Reply #27 |
30. Yes there is a choice to be made... |
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varkam (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-19-06 05:28 AM Response to Reply #30 |
31. But again... |
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papau (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-20-06 03:26 PM Response to Reply #30 |
54. Excellent thread :-) |
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Trajan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-19-06 02:09 AM Response to Original message |
9. As an atheist, I have also argued this ..... |
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heidler1 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-19-06 04:15 PM Response to Reply #9 |
35. I agree and also see a glaring silliness to the whole test of so called |
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Zebedeo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-19-06 11:23 PM Response to Reply #9 |
46. God can't force you to choose Him voluntarily |
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Trajan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-20-06 08:27 PM Response to Reply #46 |
64. He can, apparently, 'force me' into a hell if I reject him ... |
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Zebedeo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-20-06 10:46 PM Response to Reply #64 |
68. Animals do not have the kind of "free will" I am talking about |
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Trajan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-22-06 12:33 PM Response to Reply #68 |
71. You keep promoting notions that have no basis .... |
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Zebedeo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-22-06 06:29 PM Response to Reply #71 |
72. No, I have not engaged in circular reasoning |
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twenty4blackbirds (418 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-19-06 02:15 AM Response to Original message |
10. free will == choice of choosing |
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Erika (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-19-06 02:25 AM Response to Reply #10 |
12. Why are you so "kill" oriented? |
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twenty4blackbirds (418 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-19-06 02:28 AM Response to Reply #12 |
14. sorry, it's part of the rhetorical question. |
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Erika (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-19-06 02:37 AM Response to Reply #14 |
17. You could have used the term save and shown examples |
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twenty4blackbirds (418 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-20-06 12:44 AM Response to Reply #17 |
48. thanks, I'll remember that one. |
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undergroundpanther (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-19-06 02:51 AM Response to Reply #14 |
21. we have PARTIAL free will |
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Inland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-20-06 02:00 PM Response to Reply #14 |
52. Give him a vasectomy, secretly. |
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Warpy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-19-06 02:45 AM Response to Original message |
19. The argument between free will and determinism is as old as the |
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Vetinarii (32 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-19-06 03:17 AM Response to Original message |
24. So here's a question for both of you: |
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varkam (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-19-06 03:39 AM Response to Reply #24 |
25. Very thoughtful post. |
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Vetinarii (32 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-19-06 04:31 AM Response to Reply #25 |
28. What is this "could" you speak of? |
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varkam (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-19-06 04:37 AM Response to Reply #28 |
29. I'm not saying I could have done otherwise. |
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believerinchrist (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-19-06 11:18 AM Response to Original message |
32. First, time is simply a mechanical function... |
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heidler1 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-19-06 04:23 PM Response to Reply #32 |
36. I believe life span creates the need for time keeping and the earth, moon |
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harleydad (151 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-19-06 03:29 PM Response to Original message |
34. I am new to this group so bear with me if I break rules or |
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beam me up scottie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-19-06 06:54 PM Response to Reply #34 |
37. Not at all, |
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harleydad (151 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-20-06 05:11 PM Response to Reply #37 |
60. I bought the bike in 9/03. |
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varkam (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-20-06 05:27 PM Response to Reply #60 |
62. self-delete |
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beam me up scottie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-20-06 09:48 PM Response to Reply #60 |
67. No, keep the earring. |
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InaneAnanity (910 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-19-06 07:29 PM Response to Reply #34 |
38. Sam Harris disagrees with you |
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beam me up scottie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-19-06 08:06 PM Response to Reply #38 |
40. I disagree with Sam Harris and that was out of line. |
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varkam (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-19-06 08:50 PM Response to Reply #38 |
41. Cheap shots can be fun |
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salvorhardin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-19-06 08:59 PM Response to Reply #38 |
42. Down boy |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-19-06 10:46 PM Response to Reply #42 |
43. Let's go with your alien abduction example. |
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salvorhardin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-19-06 11:21 PM Response to Reply #43 |
45. If you've been following what I've been saying around here... |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-20-06 03:14 PM Response to Reply #45 |
53. We fully agree. The evidence seems to point that way. |
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salvorhardin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-20-06 04:29 PM Response to Reply #53 |
58. Exactly! n/t |
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papau (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-20-06 03:33 PM Response to Reply #45 |
55. We disagree - but I respect your right to your opinion. |
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salvorhardin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-20-06 04:27 PM Response to Reply #55 |
57. Papau... This is not meant as a slam against believers |
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papau (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-20-06 04:35 PM Response to Reply #57 |
59. I agree - which is why you and I - both of us - are on this board! :-) |
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Zhade (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-21-06 02:26 AM Response to Reply #57 |
69. I don't think he (the only one on my ignore list, btw)... |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-20-06 01:45 PM Response to Reply #38 |
50. Deleted message |
harleydad (151 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-20-06 04:07 PM Response to Reply #38 |
56. Your argument erects a refrigerator as a straw man and then |
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varkam (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-19-06 07:44 PM Response to Reply #34 |
39. Thank you |
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harleydad (151 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-20-06 05:23 PM Response to Reply #39 |
61. Thanks for the welcome. |
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lvx35 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Mar-19-06 11:13 PM Response to Original message |
44. An eastern perspective |
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The Straight Story (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-20-06 12:03 AM Response to Original message |
47. It's a movie |
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varkam (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-20-06 07:21 AM Response to Reply #47 |
49. He gives it 2 stars n/t |
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Inland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-20-06 01:48 PM Response to Original message |
51. You've stumbled onto Calvinist predetermination. |
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varkam (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-20-06 05:27 PM Response to Original message |
63. I think I may have stumbled upon a solution to the problem.... |
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Trajan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-20-06 08:40 PM Response to Reply #63 |
65. I thought I stumbed onto the solution of the problem long ago .... |
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varkam (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Mar-20-06 09:21 PM Response to Reply #65 |
66. I agree. |
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muriel_volestrangler (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Mar-21-06 10:34 AM Response to Original message |
70. It seems to me knowledge of the future is a problem for God's free will |
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JerseygirlCT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Mar-22-06 09:53 PM Response to Original message |
73. Let go of the linear concept of time |
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