So, what kind of believer/non-believer are you?

[Random_Australian]

Poll question: So, what kind of believer/non-believer are you?

Yes, I do not expect to be able to extend these results to the population at large.
I am curious.

*** THIS IS ABOUT YOUR CORE BELIEFS, THE EXSTENCE OF GOD, RELIGIOUS AFFILIATION ET CETERA ***

We all expect the minutae of our beliefs to be challenged sometimes. (I am pretty certain)

[Random_Australian]

1. Personally, I am in the testing stage. Evangelicals can try; they have

before but my stats is fairly wateright.

[varkam]

2. self-delete

[Kailassa]

12. I said yes to the last option,

and you have really put me on the spot by asking why.

Answering honestly means having to look into dark and tender places inside, trying to work out just where the truth lies. And exposing those places to strangers, some of whom are bound to find them ridiculous.

I don't believe in believing, I don't see the point. We should all be constantly questioning everything, and be prepared to balance on the knife-edge of simply not knowing one way or the other. Being part of a group who all believe the same can give one strength and confidence, but I prefer to live with uncertainty and vulnerability.

As a lonely child, I always knew that god would be there with me while I walked the long frightening miles to school and back. - frightening because I never knew when my four older brothers and their friends would jump out at me to rape me again. God was not there to interfere in what happened, he was there as my friend, to comfort me afterwards help me be strong again. He shared jokes with me, and we'd make up songs together. What I asked of him was wisdom, the ability to understand this world, and for him to help me grow up to be a saint.

Since then continued support and friendship, things that seem like miracles, and a "near death" experience have only served to reinforce the feeling that god's hand is holding mine any time I want.

However I can see this from the skeptics' point of view too. Of course a lonely child is going to have an invisible friend, and naming him god proves nothing. The help and advice since could just my imagination, and knowledge coming from my own subconscious. And I've read a scientific explanation as to how your brain could produce the "delusions" of near death experiences. Some parts of that experience, such as seeing things in the room I could not see from the dentist's chair, can't be explained, but there is no reason why anyone who was not there should believe me about them. As we all know people can lie, it's not logical to take other people's experiences into account without good reason.

I choose to base my life on the feeling I have that these things are real because that is beneficial to me. I get to keep my "invisible friend", and even if asking god to give me advice is only an aid to accessing my own subconscious knowledge, it at least does that effectively.

[Random_Australian]

13. No ridicule from me. A lot of this atheists support of religion comes

from some people's ability to get sooo much comfort from it.

Sorry that you had to live through that, and that I brought it up again. Hope I did not open old wounds.

Edit: Another Aussie! Pleased to meet you!

[Kailassa]

15. NP, it was my choice to answer, although you being

an Aussie too made me more inclined to. :toast:
I've kept an eye on your posts since I joined up, because it's good to know another Aussie is posting thoughtfully on DU.
(We have to fight them there so we don't have to fight them here. ;-))
And don't worry, there is nothing bad about having old wounds. I'm not sure you can be fully human and not have lived through some sort of shit in the past. I just mentioned what was happening because it explains how I came to adopt the spiritual outlook that I have.

Different experiences are bound to lead to different outlooks.

What I cannot understand is, how can an adult believe something because they are told it is true? This is what I don't get about religion, patriotism or the basic tribalism of: "I know him, so he must be in the right and telling the truth."

My best guess at an answer is that humans have evolved the ability to turn off independent thought when it leads to conclusions that go against the beliefs of their "tribe", because this has strengthened cohesiveness within the tribe. Having everyone play "follow the leader" made it easier for tribes to survive against predators and cope together with disasters.

This is why an appearance of strength and charisma on the part of the leader is so important. Tribe-members would rather follow an idiot who can thump his chest and roar threats at outsiders than someone who is gentle, intelligent, and who speaks reasonably.

Some of us though are deviant by nature, because we're missing the "switch off skepicism" gene, and have to analyse everything for ourselves. It's my bet that most non-believers have to think out their own morals from scratch too, to see what makes sense. Which, despite what Christians often say, can lead to a person being more moral than they would be otherwise, because you end up with a personal understanding of why you hold the moral standards that you have.

[Random_Australian]

16. One of my alltime favourite experiments (we really do conform

our perception of reality itself to fit into a group)

Solomon Asch, 1955 (though I suggest reading when not tired)

http://www.panarchy.org/asch/social.pressure.1955.html

:toast: That is what happens, I think. Same mechanism, we adjust our very thoughts sometimes.

In fact, in that particular experiment, one of the dissenters said "2!" (the obviously correct answer) ran outside, ran back in, said "3!" (The obviously incorrect answer that all the other people said was right) and ran out again. What did he say later when asked about it? Disagreeing with a consistent majority was so awful it caused him to throw up. We have been warned.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

18. A well-written and thoughtful post

that I identified with. Not the abuse part... I am sorrowful that you had to endure that...but the gradual discerning of God through life events, including the "somebody to talk to." I don't explain all my many, many little miracles and "coincidences" because taken alone they are inconclusive, but gathered up throughout a lifetime they are important to me. But how would anyone know I was telling the truth?

[varkam]

3. IBTL!

:) Just kidding.

I'm pretty set on my non-belief. There is no real good evidence to support the existence of God (and I'm not even talking scientific or physical evidence, just logical consistency), so the burden of proof is on those who would wish to convince me. I'm constantly challenging myself though - "Was that a miracle / ghost / angel / <insert metaphysical phenomenon here>?" But I try to keep an open mind and remind myself that, after all, I could be mistaken.

[Hestia]

10. Or you just say What Would The Flying Spaghetti Monster do?

[varkam]

11. It is inherently unknowable.

It is the peak or arrogance to assume that we can even close to understanding Him, the most holy, the most divine, the most delicious FSM.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

19. I pizza a lesser god in the FSM pantheon, do you think?

I had a wonderful encounter yesterday.

[longship]

4. My atheism is completely set.

I have been an atheist as long as I can remember. I am completely comfortable in my non-belief and have no intentions of changing it.

[snot]

5. I BELIEVE

in truth, justice, and kindness.

Belief that's not continually re-examined = ignorance.

[Random_Australian]

7. yep, something I think we can all agree on. Where do you stand in terms

of any or lack of religious affiliation? (If you are comfortable talking about it)

[snot]

8. None -- agnostic. nt

[Random_Australian]

9. Edit: Hairsplitting.

delete

[NMMNG]

6. I returned to atheism 8 or 9 years ago

I'm comfortable with that and don't anticipate losing my lack of belief any time soon. No evidence for god(s) has come up yet and I don't foresee it in my lifetime. I could always be surprised though. :shrug:

[xchrom]

14. i'm christian -- but i believe that christianity carries large seeds of

existentialism and agnostism in it.

it's a natural part of the continous struggle of living and belief.

i'm one of those who wants to see the bible reworked.

i want to see ''blind'' faith confronted, questioned, challenged.

both in myself and most certainly in those that manage to obtain mantles of authority.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

17. Good morning, RA

Having checked the date and affirmed that this is indeed a nice, new thread...I'll throw in my two cents. I chose the first one, as it seems many of us did. I wish there was an age component to the poll because I'm wondering if it is kind of a geezer thing, being set in one's ways and all.

But actually, even ten years ago when I had brown hair I would have answered it the same.

And I guess it is not morning where you are, so good evening!

[Proud_Democratt]

20. Atheist.....since 14.

:)

[JerseygirlCT]

21. Work in progress

To some extent, I think that's always been me.

I attend a pretty mainline, even traditional liturgically, church. And am happy there. The particulars of my personal belief however, evolve all the time.

It might be easier if I wasn't the type to think a great deal about it!

[Quantess]

22. This is why trying to convert someone is usually a waste of time:

Most people voted: Comfortable in my belief or nonbelief/Have kept them for a long time and expect no change (or intend to keep for a long time)

This includes me, an agnostic with a vague belief of spiritual eternity. I am open to spiritual insights, and I enjoy thinking critically, but there's no way someone could convert me to their established religion. Missionaries, don't waste your time on me!

Even at 14 when my P.E. teacher tried to talk to me about Jesus, I politely sidestepped him. Wait- even earlier, at about age 5, I remember being skeptical of Jesus and thinking that Sunday School really sucked and that I wanted to go home.
I always thought the whole savior thing was a sham. I never understood how people bought into religion. Like they need someone to tell them what to believe about the unknown, as if those peole know any more than anyone else. Well as far as I'm concerned, they don't have "all the answers". No one does.

So, just knowing that most people here chose answer #1 should make proselytizers pause. Maybe, they will please stop trying to convert people to their own beliefs. Because, in most cases they are wasting their time.

[beam me up scottie]

23. I take it your agnosticism wasn't a choice?

That is another bone of contention around here.

Many believers (and a few non) claim that not believing in deities is a choice.

I have always been an agnostic atheist.

I can no more make myself believe in gods than I can make myself believe in leprechauns.

So I agree with you about proselytizing, I abhor it.

You won't find much of that here, thankfully.

For the most part, DUers accept each other just as they are when it comes to religion and spirituality.

[Quantess]

24. Uh, I could Choose to pretend to believe in Jesus, I guess.

But fortunately, I never had to pretend anything. My family accepts that religious beliefs (among many other things) are meant to be questioned. My parents had a brief interest in attending Christian church, until they decided they didn't buy it, either. Not really. And I was happy that I never had to go back to Sunday School. I just remember thinking to myself "How much longer do I have to sit here listning about Jesus? This is dumb. Jesus talk is boring. I don't buy this Jesus idea". I truly DID consider it. I think I tried to accept Jesus but deep down I never really believed. I didn't deny Jesus as a savior just to be rebellious, or a brat. I was a good kid, always wanting to please people.
I just didn't believe in Jesus!

[beam me up scottie]

25. That's what a lot of atheist kids do.

They go along with it because they're convinced that some day, they will figure out what everyone else is talking about.

At least you didn't have to come out of the closet to fundamentalist parents.

Many DUers tell horror stories about the reaction of their families.

[Quantess]

26. Isn't that called hypocrisy?

Not to belittle anyone who is afraid to get out of the closet, so to speak. I understand there is pressure is many families.

But, it appears to me that many holier-than-thou, self-proclaimed "Christians" don't give a rip about their soul. It's all about appearance. It's all about "oh, I'm such a good, upstanding, devout,Christian. Everyone looks up to me... I'm so respected in my church." Meanwhile, doing things that would send them to hell if they truly believed...

Or, there are some paranoid people who truly are afraid to trust their own instincts to question their religion, because Satan might be involved. I guess I would call them LOST. Not lost souls, just a little confused.

[beam me up scottie]

27. No.

Not admitting you're an atheist isn't hypocritical, some just feel it's necessary in some cases.

If I were to come out at work, for instance, I would lose my job.

I do agree with your take on the hypocrisy of holier-than-thou christians, although I can't make the call whether or not they believe in the christian god.

Many christians do question their faith, and a lot of them post here.

Some decide that it's not right for them and move on, others readjust their beliefs, and many conclude they're just where they should be.

From what I understand, their faith isn't set in stone, it evolves and adapts just like any other belief.

[Quantess]

28. Guilt

plays a major role in Western Christianity and maybe other religions as well. We are supposed to feel obliged to Jesus for loving our filthy souls so much, that he died on the cross. How could you ever repay someone for that? (rhetorical question). AND THEN YOU SAY YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN HIM?! For shame!!!!

[beam me up scottie]

29. That it does.

Mothers use that tool very effectively as well.

But I don't think that's what keeps christians believing.

At least not most of them.

[Quantess]

30. Right,

but guilt can make people afraid to stand up to their gut feelings.
Oh, I don't know...

I think spiritual feelings are common to humans, and the natural inclination is for people to say "Jesus is reaching out to me" or "that's Mohammed" or whatever. It's a combination of culture and human nature. And...possibly some spiritual phenomena. It's the way our brains process the mysterious and unknown.

[Random_Australian]

31. Or at least some percentage of humans. A moderately large %, I think.

All the different minds in this world, and only 68% lie within one standard deviation of the mean!

[Strong Atheist]

32. Comfortable. Been an atheist for roughly 30 years, will always be

one, barring some god proving they exist AND are someone I would associate with ...