Forget paying teachers...pay the kids!

[adnelson60087]

About two-thirds of the 59 high-poverty schools in the Sparks program -- which pays seventh-graders up to $500 and fourth-graders as much as $250 for their performance on a total of 10 assessments -- improved their scores since last year's state tests by margins above the citywide average.

The gains at some schools approached 40 percentage points.


Critics argue that paying kids corrupts the notion of learning for education's sake alone.

But supporters of student incentives say immediate rewards are necessary to help some kids connect the dots between school and future income -- and the students agree.

Alize Cancel, a 13-year-old at IS 286, spent some of the $180 she has earned this year on school supplies and shoes.

"It's all we talk about. Every day we ask our teachers, 'Did we pass? When do we get paid?' " she said. "It made me study more because I was getting paid."

http://www.nypost.com/seven/06082009/news/regionalnews/learn__earn_plan_pays_off_173099.htm

This just seems wrong. It may work, but what is the message here? Is this really what we're coming to in America's educational system??

[notadmblnd]

1. I think it's a good idea.

However I disagree with the article when it says that kids should be learning for learning sake. The entire point of getting an education is to become a productive member of society.

[Cleita]

2. Isn't this something parents should do, not the schools?

My parents paid me a dollar for every "A" I brought home on my report card. Maybe it would amount to $5 but to me it was a fortune back in the forties.

[Buzz Clik]

3. I think parents need to tap into the money pot as well. Incompetent teachers means more tutoring

I am so damned sick of having to teach academic concepts to my children that the teachers simply cannot convey. I want to be paid by the hour -- not my salary, but theirs. Perhaps if there were some penalty for poor performance that actually hurt, then we wouldn't have to carry such a huge load.

[Taitertots]

4. Prepare to be flamed

Don't ever question the teachers or you will get flamed to pieces.

[Buzz Clik]

6. I'm on kid number six, and it's the same old story.

Among the first 5:

We had just one "good" kid who always followed the rules and studied hard. Good teachers got the concepts across to him; the bad ones didn't. We had to tutor him in math every year. He scored 650+ on all sections of the SAT.

We've had one who hated everyone and everything. His teachers pretty held mutual feelings toward him. Understandable, but not helpful. He scored about 550 on math and 650+ on the other SAT sections.

And we've had three edgy kids (a musician, an engineer, and a super jock) who weren't real crazy about the rules but wanted out of public schools so badly that they were willing to put up with the insanity. The jock required constant tutoring at home, the engineer needed math help up until high school, and the musician was smarter than all his teachers so he never studied. All three scored 600+ on each section of the SAT. Post high school? All three are brilliant students.

And now we have number six. A beautiful, loving child who adores all her teachers, despite the fact that all of them (with the exception of her kindergarten teacher) had gaping holes in their academic competency. She comes home with no idea how to: perform long division, multiply double digit numbers together, find the lowest common denominator, create irrational fractions, etc etc etc. The teacher told us that it's because she "isn't good at math". Oh. So, I teach her each of these concepts in less than 15 minutes each. She can convert complex irrational fractions in her head, convert fractions to percentages without even thinking about it, and solve complex math problems with minimal effort. In the absence of my tutoring, she was carrying a C- in math; the very next quarter after tutoring at home (20 minutes per night), she raised her math grade to 98%. Yeah, she sucks at math alright :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

Meh.

[skye_line]

18. I totally agree...

We had to pull our oldest out of public school right after fourth grade due to social and educational problems. We couldn't afford private school so we decided to homeschool him. I ended up having to re-teach him some of fourth grade. He didn't even know how to write in cursive and his math was lacking in essential areas. And he was ranking at the top of his class!

In our experience, the school was more concerned with getting attendance than giving children quality education. I am proud to say that he has made leaps and bounds in his education. I'm thrilled to see him living up to his full potential and he is a much happier person overall. Math is now his favorite subject and he excels in it. Either public school or homeschool, I'm always an advocate for a parent's involvement in their child's education no matter what the cost.

[adnelson60087]

5. Are ALL of your children's teachers incompetent?

I don't know where your children are schooled, what grade they are in, or much else. But I've been a classroom teacher for 16 yrs now in urban, post-industrial, and suburban schools, and let me tell you, bad teachers are real, but they are far from the norm. I think schools have about 90% teachers and staff that really care for the kids, and we're trying to get it closer to 100% all the time. See your local principal or school board members about that 10% or so that may be harming our kids. As for your efforts with your children, it sounds like you're doing your job in being an engaged parent, and that's wonderful.

[Buzz Clik]

7. Our school system is rated No. 1 or No. 2 in the state year after year.

But not because the teachers are so good. Our school system is dominated by children of university faculty (our community was ranked the highest educated in the country). So, the bar is very, very high. And, quite frankly, the elementary teachers are in over their heads. Nearly every kid is smarter than every teacher.

Are the teachers totally incompetent? No, they suffer from two problems: 1) They teach only to the top of the class because they're pure geniuses who don't require any effort to teach; 2) It's tough teach a classroom filled with brilliant kids.

So, our school system has no clue how to deal with average problems. No clue. A kid has a photographic memory but struggles with synthesis and extrapolation? Screw him. (I'm not kidding -- my daughter gave a 15 minute presentation on the Hubbel Telescope, and then asked questions. She asked why the telescope initially gave fuzzy images, and this kid sitting next to me answer the question verbatim from her slide. My daughter says he's never gotten a grade above a B.)

We moved child number 5 to the adjacent school system because she had been told every year of her life that she was stupid in math. (Literally! Her fourth grade teacher said those words.) As I stated in another post, when she took her SATs, she got a 620 in math. I'm sorry, but that is not a reflection of "stupid in math."

[sheila f]

8. Yeah, it is not a good thing to me...Learning should be a joy

It was for me and it's sad that it's no longer the case.

[notesdev]

9. If it works

don't knock it! What's important here is that the kids are motivated to learn, which is in short supply these days. And if $500 per student of direct rewards produce more benefit than $1000 of indirect funding... I'd say this is an avenue worth further exploration.

[Reader Rabbit]

10. America the mercenary

God forbid any American do something because it has intrinsic value, or for the sake of altruism, or just because it's the right thing to do. Nope. Anything worthwhile must involve cold, hard cash!

Christ, could our country be any shallower?

[proud2BlibKansan]

12. Alfie Kohn is vomiting about now

LOL

[LWolf]

13. I don't think so.

:(

[proud2BlibKansan]

11. Our kids get paid to go to summer school

And they come! LOL

[lk9550]

14. Fantastic Idea

If only someone would actually implement it.

[kaylynwright]

15. This is just sad.

I graduated with a 4.0 and never got paid. I suggested to my mother that she pay me, and she basically said, "You will still get As regardless, so no." My parents told me when I was a kid that I would always get As in school, so I did. I thought you were supposed to want to work for the best grade for personal satisfaction? Not anymore I guess. High school is a joke though. It was too easy and most of what I learned was from my parents or (once I passed my mom in math freshman year) teaching myself. A lot of other classes were just about memorizing everything and testing, so I didn't learn too much in them either. And English is not worthwhile when many of the students in honors courses can write just as well as the teachers. Sorry to offend anyone. I have had good teachers, but I've had more bad teachers than good. At my first high school, I learned a lot. When I moved to a different state and entered a school with a diverse population, the standard dropped significantly because a lot of the students did not have parent involvement at home. I got sick of hearing students whine about how hard a class or particular assignment was, when they were actually really easy and those students themselves had terrible work ethics. I hated high school.

To the original poster: The message seems to be that we should brainwash the youngest generations. I don't see how this could be a good idea. How will these generations learn to work hard to better themselves, and not just to receive monetary incentives? This just contributes to the American idea that we are "entitled."

ETA: When I was younger, we could bring our report card to our Blockbuster movie rental, and receive a free movie if we had a certain amount of As. I feel like this is still appropriate.

[AdHocSolver]

16. When the U.S. education system is based on the corporate for-profit mentality, why not pay the kids.

The predominant underlying attitude about education in this country is that its only utility is to train students how to be a proper employee when they grow up. The kids in the affluent school districts are trained to be corporate team players where they will fill a slot in some narrow specialty.

A percentage of kids in less affluent school districts are encouraged to learn enough to compete for a limited supply of mind-numbing, low-paying, dead-end jobs. Since most of the kids will be unemployed or underemployed, there is little reason to spend a lot of money educating them. Scams like No Child Left Behind (NCLB) are useful tools to limit the funds "wasted" on education for these kids.

This is why art and music are short-changed in many schools. These subjects may enrich the lives of these kids, but it doesn't help the corporate "bottom line", so let the parents pay for it themselves (if they can afford it).

Even if the parents don't get it, most of the kids in less affluent schools understand damn well what is going on. They understand perfectly well that most of them are going to have a limited future no matter what they do in school, and many of them just quit playing the game.

It is not the teachers' fault. Teaching school was one of my "careers". I am amazed at how so many teachers can be dedicated for years in a job that often has really frustrating working conditions.

It is not the students' fault. I never met a "stupid" student. I saw bored students, demoralized students, frustrated students, angry students, apathetic students, abandoned students, but never a stupid student.

It isn't the parents' fault. The more affluent parents are well indoctrinated about what they have to do to get their kids to be a part of the system, and some of them do it with a vengeance. The less affluent parents often have problems of their own, and are intimidated by the system.

So what is the problem? The education system in this country sucks. The colleges of education are full of many bombastic ignoramuses who know nothing about teaching (or learning). An often heard lament: "My education courses did not prepare me for the classroom, not even for the controlled situation in student teaching."

The curriculums are not challenging, the subject matter is dumbed down, the later classes are merely repeats of earlier classes, and the standard textbooks are poor examples of pedagogy.

The school boards are politicized, and the old geezers, whose kids have graduated and moved on, don't want their tax dollars going to pay for someone else's kids education. So, they fight any referendum that may channel money into the school system, like upgrading infrastructure, or "worse", increasing teachers' salaries.

So, why not pay the kids to learn. Those few dollars are probably the only benefit they will get out of the system.

[skye_line]

19. I think...

Money would definitely help motivate kids to try harder. Maybe if we put money as a dangling carrot in front of them they'd be more inclined to study instead of texting and other such non-sense. Schools have become social clubs when they were designed to be institutions of learning. If money talks, I say we do it...then again, fast food chains would loose out on future employees...hmmm...

[TxRider]

17. Great idea...

We have a cultural issue in education.

Non involved parents, a culture that kids denigrate anyone who wants to learn.

Nobody wants to be called a book worm, a nerd, etc...

We need a motivator stronger than that culture, and cash for grades could do it.



But don't stop there.

We need adult education to do the same. Take low income uneducated people and pay them to go to trade schools etc. with free child care and transportation. With bonuses paid for high achievement.


It would be cheaper that our entitlements in the long run..

[ffellini7080]

20. I wish I was give such a treatment

when I was in high school.

[rj5690]

21. Sounds like a fantastic idea

[thefan]

25. The first steps

So we give them 12 yrs of free educations and some get more. Most kids can even get free meals too while they get an education. So now they can get payed aswell??? Why not just givem a car collage for free and a nice debt card with a nice balance on it so they can get that nice jump start on life too. While were at it lets give a free place to stay too. Heaven forbid if anyone should have to try anymore. Nah!!! That would be to hard and if it's hard, it's not fair. :( I sit on a local schoolboard and money is not the issue. From my veiw school is not the problem. It does have it's problems, for sure but the issue is much bigger. :) I'll let you all guess, flame and want me to say it but I degress. :(

[Caz]

22. The corporate child.

Considering the corporations interest in children, I guess they would want to teach them to understand business and money as soon as possible.

This video indicates the strange relationship hedge funds have with schools and children, and the corruption involved:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyqsOBkLWh0

[donco6]

23. Heck, if test scores are all you care about, I have a cheaper idea.

Offer them a hooker. You'll knock the top of the test.

And it would be every bit as disgusting.

[alp227]

24. Got failing kids? Then motivate them!

I've heard these types of stories before. And I think that'd really help the good kids who just happen to be in poor families; think about the living wage. And I do agree that education is for a person to be a productive member in a democratic society. Thus, rewarding the students beyond a mere report card grade will introduce them to the real world.

[varelse]

26. if it'd been paid into a college fund

such a system might have paid for my books in college :/