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Did the Mormons do anything underhanded for Yes on Prop 8

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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-08 10:53 AM
Original message
Did the Mormons do anything underhanded for Yes on Prop 8
If so, how are we going to bring public attention to it.

The robo calls, were they mormon funded?
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-08 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
1. Yes.They lied about EVERYTHING and made mailers that lied about Obama supporting Prop 8. n/t
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-08 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. can you be more specific. maybe we can all list the mormon lies
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-08 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. They said that churches would be required to perform gay marriages or lose their tax exemption.
Edited on Tue Nov-11-08 11:05 AM by IanDB1
Also said that schools would be forced to "teach gay marriage" to students.

There's more if you google it.

http://www.google.com/search?q=mormon+church+gay+marriage+lies&sourceid=navclient-ff&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1B3GGGL_enUS269US269&aq=t

Church told 'obvious lies,' gay activists allege - CNN.com
On the first Sunday after a gay marriage ban passed in California, ... In Oakland, a large protest at the city's Mormon temple led the California Highway ...
www.cnn.com/2008/US/11/10/gay.marriage.protests.ap/index.html - 89k -

#
Mormons Bankroll Anti–Gay Marriage Amendments in California ...
Oct 22, 2008 ... "The Mormon Church, based in Salt Lake City, Utah, has hijacked the ..... Lie. Children would be forced to learn about same-sex marriage in ...
www.advocate.com/news_detail_ektid64163.asp - 92k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this
#
Thou Shalt Not Lie: Tell The Mormon Church To Stop Anti-Gay Lies ...
Thou Shalt Not Lie: Tell The Mormon Church To Stop Anti-Gay Lies! .... The fact is that the Cali voters voted against same sex marriage and the Cali Supreme ...
www.topix.com/news/gay/2008/10/thou-shalt-not-lie-tell-the-mormon-church-to-stop-anti-gay-lies -

Technorati: Discussion about “Church told 'obvious lies,' gay ...
Nov 10, 2008 ... Church told 'obvious lies,' gay activists allege On the first Sunday after a gay marriage ban passed in California, activists rallied in ...
http://technorati.com/articles/cRDYoTVpE877HvlHZVQL5vOq7LSq51p694o2YW8sbbg%3D
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WillParkinson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-08 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. Wait...
The ads that I saw were of Mr. Obama saying he was against gay marriage, not for Prop 8. In and of itself they were not lies. Sneaky? Yes. Flat out lies? No.
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keepCAblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-08 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Deliberately MISLEADING.
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WillParkinson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-08 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Won't deny that...
But they didn't lie and that's the problem.
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bluedawg12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-08 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
3. They donated over 40% of all of the money
that went into the H8 strategy and then with money from other churches (#2 Catholic) and other donors, they hired a campaign consultant the same way any other rw hate smear politician does and ran a sophisticated slur machine.

Did they have a skeletal finger in the robo call lies? --you betcha.:mad:
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123infinity Donating Member (276 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-08 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
4. I know what you mean but as far as I'm concerned, -supporting- it is underhanded.
:shrug:
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-08 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
6. The TV ads were dishonest.
The ads suggested (with cleverly conditional language) that, if Prop. 8 were not passed, churches could be required to marry gay couples. That is untrue thanks to separation of church and state, and the ads were sneaky. Catholic churches (and any other churches that choose to), for example, may refuse to marry couples if one member is not Catholic. In fact, Catholic churches used to do that. Does anyone know the rules in the Mormon religion on marrying non-Mormons in their churches? Catholic and other churches may also refuse to marry couples if one is divorced. It's up to the church who the pastors/priests marry.

The worst of it is that the ads featured a self-proclaimed law professor as an authority on that issue. I can't imagine what he was talking about or why he was willing to put his reputation on the line in those ads if he is professor at a law school. Interestingly, when suggesting that churches might be forced to marry gay couples, the professor used conditional language. Very lawyerly, not quite an outright lie, but utterly dishonorable. Underhanded is a great word.

There was also some nonsensical claim about schools having to teach children about gay marriage. That is absurd. Gay couples exist, and schools will pretty much have to deal with their existence when they have children. Schools have to deal with gay couples no matter what happens with regard to gay marriage.

I consider the ads to be very underhanded.
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zanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-08 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Not being in California, I didn't see the ads.
Were there any ads to counter the rubbish that was on the air? There wasn't alot of coverage of GLBT people (or just anti-Prop 8 people) fighting the proposition. I never thought it would actually pass. WTH happened to California? I know that the churches had alot to do with it, but still....California?
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keepCAblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-08 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
9. They set up a multi-state satellite teleconference re: Prop 8
Edited on Tue Nov-11-08 12:25 PM by keepCAblue
The satellite teleconference was aired to mormon centers in several states, exhorting all their members to donate money and volunteer to help pass 8. They then bussed in over 7,000 out-of-state church members into California for door-to-door canvassing, distributing the Yes on 8 propaganda literature which propagated the outrageous lies the Yes on 8 campaign was spewing

Lies: 1) If prop 8 doesn't pass, your children will be forced to be taught about gay sex in public schools, even kids in kindergarten will have to "learn" about gay sex; 2) If prop 8 doesn't pass, churches will be forced to marry same sex couples in their church and if the church refuses they will lose their tax exempt status; 3) Obama and Biden are both against same sex marriage (they used Obama's image and his words "I'm against same-sex marriage on the home page of their website, in highly visible Internet ads--thanks to Google--in literature that was mass mailed to CA residents and left on doorsteps, and in robocalls that were set up to specifically target largely black communities (while it is true Obama and Biden oppose ssm on a personal level, both vehemently OPPOSED prop 8, which was never disclosed on any of the inflammatory "yes on 8" literature, website, ads or robocalls, which is intentionally misleading; 4) if prop 8 doesn't pass, their freedom of speech will be lost (to talk in churches, etc. about the sins/evils of homosexuality) and that they could be arrest for "hate speech."; 5) they used the images of young children who attended their lesbian teacher's wedding on their website, in tv ads and in their literature -- without the children's parents consent. Even after the parents' demanded they stop using their childrens' images, the Yes on 8 people refused.

These lies were not exclusive to the mormons, but rather to the "yes on 8" campaign organizers as a whole. The mormons were a large contributing factor, however, in helping to propagate these lies and half-truths, both through their disproportionately large donations and via volunteering in such large numbers.

At a glbt community meeting here in San Jose on Sunday, one lesbian couple related the story of their neighbors, a mormon family who, prior to prop 8, they had been very close friends with -- helping care for their children, teaching them how to garden, etc. When prop 8 hit, these same "close" neighbors put up their "yes on 8" signs in their yard. When the lesbian couple asked them "why?" and how could you do this to us, people you know and (they thought) cared about? The mormon parents said they hated to have to do it but they were COMMANDED to do so by their church leaders; they were also told they HAD to donate money to support prop 8 or else they could face recrimination from the church.

This isn't the first time mormons have actively campaigned against glbt Americans. In 2004, the LDS church in Utah played a significant role in passing Amendment 3, an initiative which changed the Utah constitution to accomplish the following:

Supporters of Amendment 3 said that the amendment would do three things:

1. Prevent state courts from making a ruling that current Utah marriage legislation unconstitutional.
2. Prevent state courts from forcing recognition of out-of-state marriages.
3. Prevent the creation of "counterfeit marriages", such as civil unions.

Amendment 3 passed by a 65.8% majority.

(the above is from wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Constitutional_Amendment_3)

And apparently it's not just glbts the mormons have offended. Jewish survivors of the holocaust are not so happy with the LDS either. Apparently the LDS church has, since 1995, been adding the names of hundreds of thousands of dead Jewish holocaust victims to their official church membership list and geneological database and baptizing these dead Jews "by proxy":


Holocaust survivors halt talks with LDS

Church surprised at 'unilateral' end to baptism negotiations
By Elaine Jarvik
Deseret News
Published: Tuesday, Nov. 11, 2008 12:38 a.m. MST

snip: The survivors have complained that the church's practice of offering church membership to the deceased has allowed members to forward the names of Jews killed in Nazi concentration camps for baptism by proxy, a practice that Michel believes alters their Jewishness.

"They tell me that my parents' Jewishness has not been altered, but ... 100 years from now, how will they be able to guarantee that my mother and father of blessed memory who lived as Jews and were slaughtered by Hitler for no other reason than they were Jews, will someday not be identified as Mormon victims of the Holocaust?" Michel said Monday.

Link: http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,705262108,00.html?pg=1



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bluedawg12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-08 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Holy sh*t!
>>And apparently it's not just glbts the mormons have offended. Jewish survivors of the holocaust are not so happy with the LDS either. Apparently the LDS church has, since 1995, been adding the names of hundreds of thousands of dead Jewish holocaust victims to their official church membership list and geneological database and baptizing these dead Jews "by proxy":<<

Clearly no damned respect for other people, other faiths, this shows a stupid -- no moronic--single mindedness of purpose that qualifies them for deprogramming.

The scary part is they are wealthy and they are active in recruiting with missionary scheme all over the world for their celestial ponzi scheme.


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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-08 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
12. Leaders of the Church of LDS told Mormons that their souls were in jeopardy if they didn't donate
money to pass Prop 8 in California and the anti-gay proposition in Arizona. I don't know if the Mormons were also involved in the Florida and Arkansas campaigns that also succeeded in passing anti-gay laws last Tuesday.

Of course, many Catholics and fundamentalist Christians report being told every election year that their souls are in jeopardy if they vote for a pro-choice candidate, which means any Democratic candidate as the Democratic Party platform is pro-choice.

As far as I'm concerned, any religious organization that coerces their members to vote for a partisan cause - particularly a partisan cause that is couched in religious terms, thus frightening followers into believing that they have literally no choice in the matter except to comply or face excommunication or eternity in hell - is violating tax laws and should be stripped of tax-exempt status.

These institutions are using religion to frighten people into doing their bidding.
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bullwinkle428 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-11-08 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. "Voter's Guide for Serious Catholics" :
http://www.caaction.com/pdf/Voters-Guide-Catholic-English-1p.pdf

Can someone tell me how these people are NOT violating the tax-exempt status designed to keep church and state separate?
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