The Merck-Haters are going to choke on this!

[cosmik debris]

After all the claims that HPV doesn't cause cervical cancer and all the claims that Gardasil does not prevent cervical cancer, The Nobel Prize For Medicine goes to.....

The $1.4-million prize was shared with Dr. Harald zur Hausen of the University of Dusseldorf for discovering the viruses that cause genital warts and are responsible for an estimated 500,000 cases of cervical cancer each year.

http://www.latimes.com/features/health/la-sci-nobel7-2008oct07,0,1059015.story

I can't wait to see the lame excuses they come up with now!

:popcorn:

[soothsayer]

1. Their argument is actually that ALOT of viruses cause cervical cancer, and that drug only

addresses some of them---not all. So you could be forced to take Gardasil and STILL get warts that later cause cervical cancer---maybe you will be MORE likely because you think you are magically protected, when you are not.

[LeftishBrit]

2. You're much less likely to get them, though...

but I agree, it needs to be made clear that you do still need those Pap smears.

Mind you, there was one recent poster who wouldn't take Gardasil, but still thought she was magically protected and didn't need Pap smears because she took responsibility for her health and had a clean and healthy lifestyle. The 'It can't happen to me!' types will always find some excuse.

[Ms. Toad]

3. And I was told by someone with enough brains

and education to know better (college + at least one degree beyond college) that, according to the CDC, HPV causes ALL cervical cancer.

Regardless of where you stand on making the vaccine mandatory, that is a scary belief. If you believe that, and have had the HPV vaccine, there would be no reason to continue being tested annually for changes that might indicate cervical cancer (pap test). Given that it is not the most pleasant test around, I can see women who believe they are 100% protected from cervical cancer might just stop having the test - meaning that early detection for non-HPV caused cervical cancer may well go down.

[dropkickpa]

4. Wart causing strains don't cause cervical cancer

Except in an infinitesimally small number of cases. That's why they're called "low-risk" strains. The High risk strains, the ones proven to cause cancer, cause changes to cervical epithelial cells, not warts. But none of that negates the fact that the vaccine cover the 2 strain most responsible (over 70%) for causing cervical cancer worldwide.

[beam me up scottie]

5. !

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

6. Have all the Gardasil haters gotten the boot?

[cosmik debris]

7. I think they just got burned out.

You can only fight a losing battle for so long.

[mizzuzmojorizin]

35. You convinced me! Can you come right over and I will pull down my panties?

Then you can inject me and make me all better :)

(Hip hip hooray for chemicals! Yay!)

[cosmik debris]

36. That offer is more scary than Gardasil ever was.

eeeewwe!

[mizzuzmojorizin]

37. Why, are you gay? You have no idea what I look like...

You might be pleasantly surprised.

*Edit*

[cosmik debris]

38. When I meet people like you in real life

I run like hell, regardless of the state of dress or undress.

[mizzuzmojorizin]

39. This coming from a resident of Waco

You make generalizations rather quickly yet have a hard-on for factoids. Go figure.

[cosmik debris]

41. More of your atrocious logic.

The city of my residence has no bearing on this unless you would like to toss in some stereotype of Wacoans.

My opinion is not based on generalizations. It is based on the posts that you made regarding autism, logic, and education.

[mizzuzmojorizin]

43. Am I speaking to the one, the only David Koresh? How about if they add a "k" to your town's name?

"Wacko." Hey, I like the sound of that...

(It sucks for people to make snap judgments on others based on scant info, doesn't it?)

[cosmik debris]

44. Contributions to stereotypes are not tax deductible.

I'm reminded of a Zappa lyric:

"What's the ugliest part of your body?
Some say your nose,
Some say your toes,
But I think it's your mind."

You have expressed you mind well enough.

[mizzuzmojorizin]

45. "You mind?" You are so street, man. Wassup?

[beam me up scottie]

46. You offered to pull your panties down for him. Sarah Palin would be proud.

Unfortunately for both of you, not all men are turned on by that type of behaviour, it usually has the opposite effect.

[mizzuzmojorizin]

47. My, my, my...am I speaking to a Brit with a stiff upper____ ?

Get off the Whore-Madonna complex. Some of us women are actually liberated and enjoy sex, as well as making semi-lewd comments from time to time. The strip clubs and bordellos are filled to the brim with the likes of your kind. If you are capable of seeing women as whole beings instead of putting some on a pedestal and going on the Internet to get your kicks or whatever men like that do, then it wouldn't be an issue.

[beam me up scottie]

48. "whatever men like (me) do" ?

:rofl:

[mizzuzmojorizin]

49. Sorry...I forgot that you haven't declared your gender yet

Pull down your panties and take a gander.

[beam me up scottie]

51. Not declaring yours would really cramp your style, wouldn't it?

I hear Aleve is good for cramps.

[mizzuzmojorizin]

52. What is good for hemorrhoids?

[beam me up scottie]

53. Pizza.

Pizza usually cures what ails us most in this forum.

[mizzuzmojorizin]

54. Are you this controlling with everyone in your life?

Wow, has it worked out for you? Why don't you just relax and allow others the freedom that I would think you expect in return? You sound like someone who bullies others when they don't reflect their reality.

[beam me up scottie]

56. Wah. Women who use sex as a debating tactic disgust me.

You might have better luck with that in the Lounge.




*No offense to the Regular Lounge Lizards who post here.

[mizzuzmojorizin]

58. Cialis. A boatload of Cialis.

And coffee enemas up the yazoo.

And DON'T call me in the morning.

(Being disgusted by women talking dirty as a debate tactic is quite an extreme reaction. I would love to pick your brain and psyche, my pet...)

[beam me up scottie]

60. You're nothing special, the behaviour of Sarah Palin and Ann Coulter also disgusts me.

And imnsho, anyone who believes that mistletoe can "arrest cancer" is incapable of picking anything but their own nose.

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[varkam]

64. You don't have the slightest clue what you are talking about. Shocker!

:rofl:

[LeftishBrit]

120. And a big pizza for you, I hope!

[beam me up scottie]

42. .

[mizzuzmojorizin]

55. So are you arrogant because you feel smarter than most people?

You do realize the difference between intelligence and knowledge and wisdom, don't you? Humility is always a good plan. I'm just sayin'...

[beam me up scottie]

57. I see that brain fog you were so concerned about is still causing problems.

Perhaps it's time to see a doctor.

[Horse with no Name]

131. I have them all on ignore

Which is why there are still quite a few "ignored" on this thread.:)

[Orrex]

8. Merck totally owns the Nobel Committee

They were behind the shameful 1997 Nobel Peace Prize debacle, for instance.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

9. Oh yeah and they pay all of us sweepers.

[Celebration]

10. convoluted reasoning

But that's okay.

I can't figure out how this guy is connected to nefarious activities at Merck, such as the debacle over Vioxx.

Anyone who discovers that a particular virus can cause a cancer probably deserves a Nobel Prize.

This really has nothing to do with Merck's attempts through state legislatures to make their vaccine mandatory. At least, I have no evidence that Dr. Harald zur Hausen has been lobbying state legislatures.

The AIDs story related to the Nobel Prize looks a little more interesting.

In a side note, I wonder what is happening to the Nobel trust fund about now.

[cosmik debris]

11. AT LAST!

I thought all the Merck-Haters had left us.

I was SO confident that someone would come up with a bad rationalization, and SO disappointed that it took so long.

Like I said in the OP, "After all the claims that HPV doesn't cause cervical cancer and all the claims that Gardasil does not prevent cervical cancer..."

Of course, I'm sure you have forgotten those claims, or at least you would like to forget.

:rofl:

[Celebration]

12. Huh?

You are making zero sense. Come up with some proof that this French guy is lobbying state legislatures, and I will mount some sort of internet attack on him.

It sounds to me like his discovery of cervical cancer being caused by viruses is a good thing, and greatly advances scientific knowledge.

Merck's intensive lobbying efforts of state legislatures, its past conduct with Vioxx studies, etc. are reprehensible and have absolutely nothing to do with the Nobel prize.

Your post is irrational and argumentative. Sorry you don't like being called on it.

[cosmik debris]

13. Must have gone right over your head.

Too bad.

[trotsky]

14. Either you are choosing to forget history, or you weren't paying attention.

Claims were made in this forum that HPV doesn't cause cervical cancer. Now here's the Nobel committee giving a prize to the guy who said it does. If you never made that claim, then you can disregard this thread. But many did, and this is about the final nail in that coffin.

[Celebration]

15. Do you have a link?

I missed those claims completely. What I remember was that the vaccine only protected against certain strains of HPV, and also that the vaccine had not been tested for a long enough period of time to see if it actually reduced cancers, or only the incidence of *some* of the particular strains that were associated with cancer.

I don't have anything against Gardasil having been developed. I do have a lot of antipathy towards Merck and their marketing efforts.

[trotsky]

16. Sure thing!

Here's one.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=222&topic_id=41448
<assuming> "HPV strains 16 and 18 actually cause cervical cancer in the 70% of cervical cancer victims today for which HPV 16 & 18 are present"

Here's another.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=222&topic_id=40692#40703
"HPV itself does not CAUSE cervical cancer."

Need more?

[Celebration]

17. hmm, technically true

HPV just increases the chances of getting cervical cancer, no? I think that is what this post was saying. Another way of saying it is that carrying certain strains of HPV may increase the incidence of cervical cancer. Do you disagree with this? Obviously it doesn't cause cervical cancer in everybody. Still, it is an important discovery. It is possible that an even more important discovery might be exactly why it causes cervical cancer in some people but not in others.

I wouldn't put this post into a whole bag of HPV deniers, or anything like that.

[beam me up scottie]

18. "just increases the chances"? WTF? Did you even read the article cited in the op?

Zur Hausen's work was far less controversial, although his proposal that human papilloma virus, known as HPV, causes cervical cancer was initially disparaged.

But he reasoned that if the virus played such a role, its genes would be incorporated into those of tumor cells, and he spent more than a decade looking for evidence. His work was complicated by the fact that only segments of the virus made it into the tumor DNA.

After a decade of searching, in 1984 he found that one strain, called HPV-16, was in some tumors. The following year, he showed that a second strain, HPV-18, was in others. He then cloned the two viruses and made them available to other researchers.

Those two strains are now known to cause an estimated 70% of all cases of cervical cancer, and vaccines against them, Gardasil and Cervarix, are now beginning to play a crucial role in preventing the disease.

[Celebration]

19. what is your point?

Does everyone who gets HPV 16 or HPV 18 get cervical cancer? If the answer is no, and that most people who get HPV 16 or HPV 18 don't get cancer, then you can't single out those things as a singular cause. They are a cause for which there are some unknown co-factors.

[beam me up scottie]

21. My point? Are you kidding? I sincerely hope you're just pretending to be this ignorant.

I highlighted it for you in my previous post, perhaps that wasn't enough...

"Those two strains are now known to cause an estimated 70% of all cases of cervical cancer"

[trotsky]

20. Such an inability to understand.

Obviously it doesn't cause cervical cancer in everybody.

Which in no way contradicts anything above. Don't you get it? Your logic would indicate that you believe since not everyone who contracted polio ended up paralyzed in an iron lung, that therefore the polio virus doesn't cause life-threatening paralysis. Does that make sense?

[Celebration]

22. look, sure

But when I asked for evidence that people here said that HPV didn't cause cervical cancer, all I got was a post that said that it didn't cause cervical cancer in everybody. And I think everyone agrees with that, so why is it controversial, even?

[trotsky]

23. You aren't getting it.

I'm sorry.

[Celebration]

25. I still want to find a post here that says HPV doesn't cause cervical cancer

Anyone?

Can anyone come up with one? I have missed a lot of threads on this subject, but I would love for someone to point me to one.

[trotsky]

27. Now you're in denial.

I already gave it to you.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=222&topic_id=40692#40703

"HPV itself does not CAUSE cervical cancer."

[beam me up scottie]

28. The EXACT quote he cited: "HPV itself does not CAUSE cervical cancer."

Let's go over it again,

trosky's post:

Claims were made in this forum that HPV doesn't cause cervical cancer.

your challenge:

Do you have a link?
I missed those claims completely.

trotsky's responds with a link and a direct quote:

HPV itself does not CAUSE cervical cancer.

Your claim:

But when I asked for evidence that people here said that HPV didn't cause cervical cancer, all I got was a post that said that it didn't cause cervical cancer in everybody

To be polite, you're not being truthful.

The exact words from the post trotsky cited, AGAIN:

HPV itself does not CAUSE cervical cancer.

[beam me up scottie]

24. It has to be intentional.

The poster might never have publicly jumped on the "HPV doesn't cause cancer" bandwagon, but she sure is making up for lost time.

FSM forbid she might have to admit that modern medical science actually improves quality of life, prevents diseases, and yes, even occasionally saves lives.

[Celebration]

26. you all just can't read

I already said I have no problem with Merck developing the vaccine, and I just hate their marketing practices.

And, I am trying to find anyone's post that says that HPV doesn't cause cervical cancer (as opposed to a post that says that many people do get HPV 16 and 18 without getting cervical cancer-which is scientifically true).

[beam me up scottie]

29. The exact quote, for the third fucking time: "HPV itself does not CAUSE cervical cancer."

Your reading comprehension skills rival dubya's.

[cosmik debris]

30. Please allow me to refer you to post #13.

I believe that covered it all.

[Celebration]

31. I took that to mean

That it is not the *only* factor. If it was, then everyone who got HPV 16 and 18 would get cervical cancer, and they don't.

[cosmik debris]

32. LMAO! you have made my day! n/t

[beam me up scottie]

33. Apparently it's you who "just can't read".

Give it up, you've been pwned.

[Celebration]

34. Look at it in context of the post

Do you disagree with this?----

"Long term existance of HPV combined with other factors can increase the chances
of displasia, which can lead to cancer.

Many people have HPV yet do not suffer nor do they develop cancer.
Their own bodies fight the virus off."

I read in context. The context of the post determined my interpretation, not just the one sentence.

[beam me up scottie]

40. The statement in context: "HPV ITSELF DOES NOT CAUSE CERVICAL CANCER."

"HPV ITSELF DOES NOT CAUSE CERVICAL CANCER."


Your personal interpretation isn't worth jack, you asked for evidence and trotsky obliged.

Get over it.

[Celebration]

59. this is cherry picking, finding an awkwardly worded sentence

And completely ignoring the fact that the next two sentences are saying the complete opposite thing. The "itself" was put into this sentence to mean "by itself", that is, that there must also be some co-factors, since all people with the HPV strains don't get cervical cancer.

[beam me up scottie]

61. You're right, I used that nasty old "Gotcha journalism".

Bad bmus :spank:

[trotsky]

63. Your reasoning here is completely and utterly wrong.

Think about the polio example I gave. Think really hard about it, and how it compares to what you're trying to say here. Does it make sense that because not everyone who contracted polio got paralyzed to the point of needing to be on an iron lung for life, that therefore the polio virus alone couldn't have cause that in the people who did? Does that make sense?

[Celebration]

117. think this is semantics

Polio may cause paralysis in a person, or it may not.
HPV 16 may cause cervical cancer in a person, or it may not.

[trotsky]

118. I'm sorry you don't understand.

What I'm really sorry about, however, is that you don't realize that you don't understand.

[xchrom]

50. recommend -- don't forget gardasil provides coverage

against genital warts and lesions.

[mizzuzmojorizin]

67. It also cleans your house and creates world peace

Pills! Pills! Pills! Yaaaaaay!!!!

[xchrom]

71. pills?

:rofl:

[varkam]

65. This thread is hilarious. K&R

:rofl:

[cosmik debris]

66. I was thinking the same thing.

I couldn't have done better if I had known what I was doing.

[mizzuzmojorizin]

68. What pills do you pop?

Do you take a pill to counteract a pill to counteract your stomach getting torn open?

[cosmik debris]

69. This must be a record for you.

You never lasted this long in your other incarnations.

[Name removed]

70. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cosmik debris]

72. I love it!

You not only verified my Zappa quote, but you are also affirming that freeper trolls can't behave in civil society. I couldn't ask for anymore proof than your persistent bad behavior. Thanks, and keep us laughing!

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[beam me up scottie]

75. Don't you have to be stupid somewhere else?

Someone used Hulda Clark's Zapper one too many times.

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cosmik debris]

79. TWO at the same time!

That's wonderful.

I love it when they pull shit like this.

[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cosmik debris]

86. That's funny, I was thinking how pathetic it must be for you

To go so far out of your way to be an ass.

A cry for help?

Probably.

But you won't get help here.

[Name removed]

88. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cosmik debris]

92. Imaginary adversaries are fun too

And you are imaginary.

Soon, you will be gone.

And we will all enjoy clicking on your profile just to see the tombstone.

:)

[Name removed]

97. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cosmik debris]

105. The pleasure was all mine,

Come back some time when you can't stay so long.

[beam me up scottie]

85. There's a little cry-baby ex-DUer forum waiting to welcome her when she crashes and burns again.

Bad old mods, they don't even stop to consider the entertainment value.

[Name removed]

90. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[beam me up scottie]

93. Nope, wouldn't waste my time.

Besides, watching you have multiple snits is better than cable.

Maybe you can give us a little warning before you stop by to visit next time, I could sell tickets.

[Name removed]

95. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[beam me up scottie]

80. You are hilarious, Sarah, but isn't it difficult to wink at the audience when you keep doing this?:

[Name removed]

84. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[beam me up scottie]

87. Nah, you're nothing but a snot-nosed little girlie troll.

But it sure is fun to watch your tantrums.

[Name removed]

89. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[beam me up scottie]

99. Oh, do they bother you?

[Name removed]

103. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cosmik debris]

102. You'll soon follow the path of mizzuzmojorizin

And you will be missed when you're gone. But not missed very much.

Buh Bye Now.

[Name removed]

104. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cosmik debris]

106. mizzuzmojorizin needs you.

Can't you hear her calling?

[varkam]

116. Daisy got the door, and it was Dominos.

Mmmm, Pizza!

[beam me up scottie]

74. !

[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[beam me up scottie]

78. I never alerted on you, Sarah.

I enjoy watching you self destruct way too much.
:popcorn:

[Name removed]

81. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cosmik debris]

83. She's as easy as she is fun! n/t

[beam me up scottie]

91. Isn't she?

You must have used some powerful bait.

[cosmik debris]

94. I just started the thread

And Miss Congeniality, Miss Rationalization, and now Miss Daisy all showed up just to make me look good.

I'm honored!

[beam me up scottie]

108. It seems like they're making the chew toys tougher, what do you think?

Maybe they last longer because they only have one speed.

[cosmik debris]

111. Miss Daisy burned out pretty quick

But she was old.

[beam me up scottie]

113. She was used, too.

Do you think Wooville has a pasture set aside for her and the others?

[cosmik debris]

114. Old cows go straight to the slaughter house. n/t

[beam me up scottie]

115. That one keeps getting out.

RUN DAISY RUN!

:rofl:

[Name removed]

96. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cosmik debris]

98. I was referring to mizzuzmojorizin

But she's gone now.

I think I'll click on her profile one more time just to see the tombstone.

[beam me up scottie]

100. She wears it well.

[Name removed]

107. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cosmik debris]

109. Miss Daisy R.I.P.

It's time for last rites.

[beam me up scottie]

112. What a shame.

Another perfectly good name ruined, I was going to name my next dog Daisy.

[beam me up scottie]

110. No, I'm the hot chick your husband keeps hitting on.

Now I can see why.

[daisychains]

101. Click on this

[xchrom]

119. i usually have to pay for this much entertainment.

best thread evah.

[Orrex]

121. Ain't that the truth

I've cancelled my cable and thrown away my radio, just so I can devote more time to reading this laugh riot!

[beam me up scottie]

122. !

[xchrom]

123. ...

:rofl:

[FM Arouet666]

124. Thanks for the the reminder.......

Reminding me why I quit DU about 1.5 years ago. Damn nutty ass people on this board and on this thread, but it is entertaining. All I can say is hate big Pharma, they are probably the main reason why we all don't have health care in this country. But, sometimes they do come up with real solutions to real problems.

Reading all the crazy leftist posts on this topic in this and other threads seems remarkably similar to the nutty talk on another board. Oh, I think they call themselves freakers, no that is not it, fRAPErs? or is it freepers. Yes, that is the ticket.

Leave dogma behind, don't hate irrationally like the nutty conservatives do. Big pharma bleeds us all dry, but the science on this topic is sound.

;0 :evilgrin:

[beam me up scottie]

125. ZOMG!!! DOC! WHERE THE FUCK HAVE YOU BEEN?

Welcome back!

[FM Arouet666]

128. As Elvis said...

Thank you, Thank you very much...... (insert silly Elvis voice for full effect.)

Actually not sure if I am back, trying to manage my internet addictions..... Nice to to see some old timers.



:evilgrin:

[varkam]

126. Hey! Welcome back!

Long time no see!

[FM Arouet666]

129. Been moving and working....

Thanks for the nod.... Hope to be back in full. :evilgrin:

[trotsky]

127. Awesome!

Hope you are back for awhile!

[FM Arouet666]

130. Hope so too

Just hanging out for now, a bit lost. :evilgrin:

[xchrom]

132. kick