Tamiflu is Star Anise

[sixmile]

http://www.naturalnews.com/026185.html
What's Missing From Every Media Story about H1N1 Influenza
from naturalnews.com, May 2, 2009

'Where do you think Tamiflu comes from, by the way?

It's extracted from the Traditional Chinese Medicine herb called Star Anise. It's one of hundreds of different anti-viral herbs found in Chinese Medicine, not to even mention anti-viral herbs from South America, North America, Australia, Africa and other regions.

I find it downright comedic that Big Pharma and the world's health authorities extract their "champion" anti-viral drug Tamiflu from a Chinese Medicine herb, and then they go out of their way to announce to people that herbs and natural remedies are useless against influenza. If that's the case then why are they using herbs to make their own medicine?

How many stories have you read that bother to tell you Tamiflu is made from the star anise herb that's been used for over 5,000 years in Traditional Chinese Medicine? Virtually none. The powers that be don't want anybody to know they could actually grow their own medicine in a garden or a windowsill. If you can grow cilantro, you can grow medicine. If everybody figured that out, Big Pharma wouldn't be reaping the enormous profits it's making right now from Tamiflu sales, and the governments of the world wouldn't be able to scare and control people by promising to distribute Tamiflu (but only if you behave).'

more at link

[tridim]

1. I didn't know that, but maybe that's why Vietnamese Pho soup makes me feel so good.

The broth is steeped in star anise.

[The Doctor.]

46. I love authentic Pho!

But it's so hard to find in the states.

[grace0418]

55. Come to Chicago. There is a Vietnamese neighborhood a mile or two from my

house. Some of the restaurants do Americanized Vietnamese food but several do it right. SOOOOOOOO delicious. My favorite soup in the world.

[The Doctor.]

66. Cool. Real Pho stock is aged MANY years... always simmering.

That's just a wonderful thing.

One of the most brilliant aspects of a culture can be found their proletarian cuisine.

Come to Buffalo and try the wings sometime... c'est magnifique!

[Critters2]

2. So, if we eat anise, will it be effective,

or do they do something to alter it? Cuz, I could bake up a batch of Pfeffernusse this afternoon, if it'll help.

[kestrel91316]

7. Not anise. STAR anise. Completely different.

Anise:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anise

Star anise:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_anise

Not even closely related. One is from an annual herb. The other is from an evergreen tree.

[DeschutesRiver]

34. Darn it! Because I make a wonderful anise biscotti:) nt

[rhett o rick]

43. Aw yes, goes great with a dark Columbian coffee. nm

[WeDidIt]

3. I Homebrew Beer using Star Anise as an adjunct

Time to crack open a bottle.

[mzmolly]

40. What an excellent idea!

;)

[rhett o rick]

50. Can you say "adjunct" in mixed company?? nm

[Wickerman]

4. seems its in short supply

...Unfortunately, the plant takes six years to flower, and it is difficult to cultivate. One estimate is that 10 years would be needed to produce sufficient quantities to treat just 20% of the world’s population.

http://www.martinrothonline.com/birdfluupdate/Articles/star_anise.htm

I know nothing of the above website, but there are many other sources claiming the same.

[Mist]

30. No wonder: "Reports say 90% of the harvest is already used

by the Swiss pharmaceutical manufacturer Roche in making Tamiflu, but other reports say there is an abundance of the spice in the main regions - Fujian, Guangdong, Guangxi and Yunnan."

From Wikipedia

[Webster Green]

5. And they pass laws that prevent the sale and use of herbs.

It's crazy!:banghead:

[eShirl]

36. I only know of one such herb

:smoke:

[Christa]

86. Yeah, me too

:smoke:

[paulsby]

53. biden tried to

see the congressional hearings on ephedra/ephedrine.

ephedra is also remarkably effective, safe, and used by the chinese for centuries.

i have made this point countless times- big pharma doesn't like ephedrine because it's safe and effective.

and congress went right along with the anti-ephedra hype

[Liberal Veteran]

57. True. If you ignore the vasoconstriction, increase in body temp, and hypertension....

....which can lead to stroke, seizures, heart attack and death. That certainly doesn't mean it has no use, but it ain't exactly equivalent to a sugar pill when it comes to safety.

[paulsby]

59. it certainly is not equivalent to a sugar pill

but when you read the AER's, you see it is remarkably safe, and the fears were GREATLY exaggerated.

for example, in one AER where ephedrine was blamed for a death, the subject was

1) also using cocaine
2) grossly overfat
3) dehydrated
4) working out in 90 deg + heat in a sweatsuit

but it was EPHEDRINE's fault.

congress (briefly) overrode DSHEA and got the SALE of ephedrine as a dietary supplement banned. it was still available as an OTC drug of course, and not illegal to possess or use. then, they got slapped, and the ban was lifted.

i really like biden. but unfortunately, biden (and mccain fwiw) have a pretty bad history of statist intervention over stuff like this.

mccain's rants against mixed martial arts especially galled me.

[Quantess]

90. I miss the old Metabolife formula. It's no good without the ephedra.

My only complaint is that I started to need it to feel normal. I felt tired without it.

I think ephedra is safe for healthy people who don't overdose on it. The people who died had high blood pressure or other health problems, and/or took too much.

[gulfcoastliberal]

6. Reminds me of red rice yeast & statins

Same deal, except they made sure the FDA banned sales of red rice yeast.

[hvn_nbr_2]

12. Since when is red yeast rice banned?

One online supplement company that I just checked has 150+ products from more than a dozen different brands that have it.

[gulfcoastliberal]

85. Ther "fermented" type now sold has zero lovastatin in it.

None of the red yeast rice sold may have lovastatin in it.

http://heartdisease.about.com/cs/cholesterol/a/Nrxcol_rry.htm

[polichick]

32. My husband buys it online or at Whole Foods.

[A Simple Game]

45. I took red yeast rice for two or three years.

Until just about 2 months ago, my doctor had me taking red yeast rice
and fish oil for my cholesterol. I still have a partial bottle with my medicines,
but my doctor changed me to Crestor.

Red yeast rice is easily obtained, at least in New York State.
You can find it in any health food store, drug store, and even Walmart.

[Christa]

87. Crestor is a killer

did you look at the side effects?

[Mojorabbit]

8. I looked into this years ago

and star anise will not do the same thing tamiflu does. I will see if I can dig up the info.

Considerable interest has been expressed by reporters in the mistaken and dangerous belief that drinking star anise extracts can be an effective treatment for the avian flu (N.R. Farnsworth oral communication to D.V.C. Awang, November 4, 2005). However, neither such extracts nor shikimic acid itself and its metabolites have been demonstrated to have such efficacy. Expressing concerns about the misuse of star anise as an herbal preventive or treatment for avian flu, a coalition of herb and dietary supplement industry trade associations have stated categorically that such activity is not only not recommended but is strongly discouraged.12
http://content.herbalgram.org/tomsofmaine/HerbalGram/articleview.asp?a=2974

Why Star Anise Won't Work

In its original form as a spice, star anise offers little or no help to flu sufferers. Shikimic acid is extracted from the fruit's distinctive seedpod only by a lengthy and complicated process-and the details are Roche's trade-secret.

Even Chinese medical practitioners advise consumers not to bother stockpiling star anise as a protection against the flu.
http://www.drugs.com/news/star-anise-spice-new-bird-flu-1631.html

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

9. Wrong. Absolutely wrong.

Tamiflu, or oseltamivir, is absolutely not in any way found in star anise.

Oseltamivir is an entirely synthetic compound, many, many synthetic steps away from shikimic acid.

Shikimic acid is a compound found in many plants, but is isolated in industrial quantities from star anise, and is likely where this myth originated.

To say oseltamivir comes from star anise because the synthetic starting material comes from star anise is just plain wrong.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

11. shhhhhhhhhhhh n/t

[Lance_Boyle]

14. keep it quiet

let the flu undo the woo.

[MineralMan]

21. How dare you give away the truth like that?

For shame! Now, sales of star anise will plummet and there will be more unemployed seed pickers in China.

[Occam Bandage]

22. I'm replying to your post so it maybe draws a bit more attention. nt

[varkam]

52. Oh sure, you with your "facts" and "science" and "logic" -- Feh, says I.

Why let a little reality get in the way of a woo-tastic web article?

[Liberal Veteran]

54. No shit. The more people running to pick up a pound of star anise for the flu means...

....more tamiflu for me if I need it.

[nashville_brook]

56. actually, looks like you're 'wrong, absolutely wrong".......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oseltamivir#Chemical_synthesis

According to Roche, the major bottleneck in oseltamivir production is the availability of shikimic acid, which cannot be synthesised economically and is only effectively isolated from Chinese star anise, an ancient cooking spice; the herb is also used in Traditional Chinese Medicine. Although most autotrophic organisms produce shikimic acid, the isolation yield is low. A shortage of star anise is one of the key reasons why there is a worldwide shortage of Tamiflu (as of 2005). Star anise is grown in four provinces in China and harvested between March and May. It is also produced in Lang Son province, Vietnam. The shikimic acid is extracted from the seeds in a ten-stage process. Thirteen grams of star anise make 1.3 grams of shikimic acid, which can be made into 10 oseltamivir 75 mg capsules. Ninety percent of the harvest is already used by Roche in making oseltamivir.

(but don't let that get in the way of some great hatin')

[Liberal Veteran]

58. Essentially it saying that shikimic acid can be used to make oseltamivir.

It doesn't say shikimic acid is oseltamivir.

[trotsky]

71. Don't be dissin' the woo, LV.

Star anise cures the flu and BIG PHARMA doesn't want you to know, goddammit! Thankfully superior woo DNA will survive the coming flupocalypse and make a better Indigo planet for those that remain.

[salvorhardin]

72. *cough*

That's aporkalypse or hamageddon. Come on man, use the proper medical terminology. ;-)

[slutticus]

64. lol.....

funny but sad altogether.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

75. You read that, but didn't understand it, did you?

Did you not notice the 15 chemical steps required to turn shikimic acid into tamiflu? And how the structure of tamiflu is completely different than shikimic acid?

[NickB79]

78. And soap is made from pig fat and lye

You don't see me showering with a big block of lard and a bottle of drain cleaner though. There are essential steps required to convert the starting materials into usable products, just as numerous chemical reactions are required to create Tamiflu from star anise.

[Liberal Veteran]

83. So you are supposed to chemically combine the lye and lard?

Shit. I thought the lye was to keep the drain open whenever it got clogged by the lard.

[AngryAmish]

10. And aspirin is birch bark

So?

[Mojorabbit]

17. I thought it was willow bark. nt

[MineralMan]

18. I thought it was slippery elm bark.

Aspirin's cheaper than dirt, though, so it's easier to go to Walgreens. :bounce:

[Greyskye]

69. Slippery elm bark is great to suck on for sore throats

When I was in a band as a vocalist it was my secret weapon against colds. I might still feel like shit, but it would get my voice through a gig. :evilgrin:

Could only find it at a native-American supply store (Stock up on native-Americans now, while they last!). Since I stopped gigging I haven't had the need to ever go there again - I wonder if it's still around?

[Sal Minella]

26. You're right.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

29. He's wrong.

Salicylic acid is found in willow bark.

Acetylsalicylic acid, aspirin, is a synthetic compound original derived from salicylic acid from willow bark, now made from phenol, a petroleum distillate.

[Sal Minella]

33. My "You're right" response was directed to Mojorabbit (willow).

:)

[Sal Minella]

27. Willow bark, actually -- aspirin is "acetyl-salicylic acid", willow is "Salix" species.

delete mutterings-under-the-breath.

[Romulox]

13. Breaking: Star Anise labeled "Schedule I" drug by DEA. Random checkpoints will be established

to catch anyone in possession...

[eShirl]

15. the place I order herbs from sells star anise by the pound for $5.65

Anise, Star whole Illicium verum China 1 pound $5.65


it doesn't appear to be particularly scarce


edit: it's a common ingredient in chai tea, along with other spices

[uppityperson]

16. FDA Warning: Do Not Drink This Tea

http://medicine-dot-org.ning.com/profiles/blogs/a-caveat-tamiflu-star-anise
(clip)
FDA Warning: Do Not Drink This Tea
The U.S. Food and Drug Administration is warning people not to drink tea that contains star anise, a flavoring ingredient sometimes used by parents to quiet colicky babies. Reuters and ScoutNews report that star anise has been linked to illnesses in the United States and Europe, although all who have been stricken have recovered without complications. Symptoms include neurological problems, such as seizures, jitteriness, and rapid eye movement, as well as vomiting.

The FDA issued the warning after an infant was admitted to Miami Children's Hospital with seizures after ingesting tea with star anise. The FDA also cited 40 similar incidents, including 15 that involved infants, from Illinois, New Jersey, Texas, as well as the Netherlands, France, and Spain. There is no scientific evidence that star anise helps babies with colic and such claims are not made on labels. Still, it's popularly believed to bring relief.

It's possible that the health problem stems from the type of star anise that is used. Chinese star anise is generally recognized as safe when used as a spice or flavoring, notes Reuters. However, Japanese star anise is believed to be toxic and should only be used as a decoration. When dried
or processed, Japanese star anise cannot be distinguished from Chinese star anise just by looking at it. The FDA will now evaluate chemical analysis methods and will monitor imports entering the United States, reports Reuters. But do note this: So far, the FDA has not been able to determine whether the star anise linked to the illnesses was only the Japanese version or a mixture of the Japanese and Chinese types.

[K Gardner]

19. I love the Natural News Articles. They're especially good on the ADHD/Big Pharma scams. K&R

[ProdigalJunkMail]

20. or they are apparent lies...

like this one looks to be...

sP

[Occam Bandage]

24. They're especially good at scamming people, all right. nt

[MineralMan]

23. Nonsense. It may not do you any harm, but

it's not the same thing at all. But, I'm probably wasting my breath, so I'll STFU.

[NeedleCast]

25. Oops, you forgot to post the fear-mongering part of the woo-woo

From OP Link:

If it does become a global pandemic, many of those people who refuse to recognize the anti-viral medicine provided by Mother Nature will die. Their misplaced faith in Big Pharma will literally cost them their lives. In contrast, those who have the wisdom to get their medicine from Mother Nature will not only survive the pandemic, they'll thrive even as others around them are dying.

Star Anise is to Tamiflu what a set of linkin-logs are to the Taj Mahal in complexity.

[uppityperson]

28. I thought you were joking, but that is indeed in the article. Here is more...

I have a sobering prediction about H1N1 influenza (formerly "swine flu"): If it does become a global pandemic, many of those people who refuse to recognize the anti-viral medicine provided by Mother Nature will die. Their misplaced faith in Big Pharma will literally cost them their lives. In contrast, those who have the wisdom to get their medicine from Mother Nature will not only survive the pandemic, they'll thrive even as others around them are dying. It is those who embrace Mother Nature's powerful, synergistic and living medicines who will weather any pandemic storm, and they will emerge as the DNA holders of the future of human civilization.

[Liberal Veteran]

51. It's true.

Whenever I get an infection, I just eat some moldy bread. All that vomiting and diarrhea and fever I get from the non-penicillin molds is the price Mother Nature charges for using the bounty of antibacterials found in nature.

[polichick]

31. Thanks for the info - my family uses herbs whenever possible...

Leave it to big pharma to pretend the active ingredient in Tamiflu is their invention.

[TwilightZone]

37. Well, apparently it is.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=222x59005#59017

[eShirl]

35. e. coli bacteria makes it, too. That doesn't mean we should eat poop when we get the flu.

"Roche also produces shikimic acid using an alternative, E. coli bacteria-fermentation process."

http://www.drugs.com/news/star-anise-spice-new-bird-flu-1631.html

[omega minimo]

38. Worth mentioning that people who use herbs use them preventatively, not just when ill.

[uppityperson]

89. As opposed to people who take medicines just when they are needed.

[Why Syzygy]

39. That's an interesting site.

Just recently discovered it. However, I try to find another source to verify or discredit any information presented there. I found he wasn't honest about the morphine story awhile back.

[mzmolly]

42. WIKI has more info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_anise

[mzmolly]

41. I recently discovered that Mucinex is derived from an ancient native

remedy.

Very interesting.

A K and R!

That's astonishing to hear because the world is full of anti-viral medicine found in tens of thousands of different plants. Culinary herbs like thyme, sage and rosemary are anti-viral. Berries and sprouts are anti-viral. Garlic, ginger and onions are anti-viral. You can't walk through a grocery store without walking past a hundred or more anti-viral medicines made by Mother Nature.

[Djinn]

44. no it's not

just because something has an extract of (or synthetic version of) a certain compound within it that does not make them the same thing.

Star Anise contains (but is not solely) Shikimic acid, which is used to make Tamiflu

In the same way that you can make a cake using an egg yolk without making the cake and an egg the same thing. Your car contains oil but it and oil are not the same thing.

A quick comparison of the make-up of Shikimic acid and Tamiflu clearly demonstrate that they aren't even the same thing let alone equating Star Anise with Tamiflu

[The Doctor.]

47. Correct. This is another pipe-thread.

There's quite a process involved, and Shikimic acid is utterly crucial to the process, but it is not the final product.

[Liberal Veteran]

48. Well, there it is on the net. It must be true.

And hey, vincristine (an antineoplastic agent marketed as Oncovin) is derived from the Periwinkle plant.

Digitalis (a cardiac glycoside) is derived from Foxglove.

Atropine, scopolamine, and hyoscyamine (anticholinergic and antispasmodics) are derived from Belladonna.

Now certainly these agents have some uses, but the notion that they are just harvesting some plants, drying them and throwing them into a capsule is laughable.

Some have to be processed in pretty fairly exact processes to produce the active ingredient.

To say that Tamiflu and Star Anise are the same, would be similar to saying dead algae and zooplankton is the same as gasoline.

[Control-Z]

49. Do you honestly believe

it is that simple?

[applegrove]

60. Star Anise is one of the spices in real Chai. I never knew it was a medicinal herb.

[eShirl]

70. I thought most spices have also been used medicinally over the centuries

clove, turmeric, ginger come to mind

[arikara]

61. Tamiflu is a crock

it needs to be taken within 48 hours of the onset of flu and then at best it only shortens the duration by a day or less... if that. Big hairy deal. Its not worth the known side effects which can be as bad or worse than the flu itself including deaths from abnormal behavior for example kids getting killed running out in front of cars or falling out windows of apartment buildings in Japan. For petes sake, why would anyone want to ingest anything as pushed by that creepy vicious little Rumsfeld, or worse, feed it to their kids?

[Why Syzygy]

67. Rumsfeld.

Humanitarian drug lord vs. horrific author of hideous torture. No inconsistency if you ask me.

[progressoid]

62. I love these joke threads.

Oh, wait, you're series.

[slutticus]

63. My God. This kind of BS could actually end up harming people. Garbage.

[DCKit]

65. "...then they go out of their way to announce ... that herbs and natural remedies are useless..."

Hah. If they only stopped at "useless". But they don't, otherwise we'd all be growing weed in our back yards.

Remember a few years ago when they went after stevia (the plant sweetener)? They got one (two?) of the federal alphabet agencies to declare it unapproved and potentially dangerous - despite the fact that stevia has been used for thousands of years with no reports of ill affects. What does that matter when it's harming sales of Splenda, Nutrasweet and that pink shit?

Granted, there are some real snake-oil salesman in the supplement business, but Pharma doesn't want ANY competition and, until Pharma no longer runs the agencies that are supposed to regulate their activities, they will continue on their quest to remove natural supplements from the shelves until everything we consume is one of their processed products.

[Why Syzygy]

68. Nutrasweet (Aspartame) . another of Rumsfeld's gifts to humanity.

How many Nazis do you suppose are in his family tree?

[eShirl]

73. this article is an example of the kind of whackadoodleness that gives herbal remedies a bad name.n/t

[GeorgeGist]

74. Five-spice pork ...

tastes better than Tamiflu.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_anise

[eppur_se_muova]

76. Wrong. Totally wrong. Definitive links.

http://www.sciencebase.com/science-blog/tamiflu-molecular-structure.html

Currently, oseltamivir is synthesised from shikimic acid, which is obtained from the star anise fruit. The total synthesis takes at least ten steps, but chemists are working on simpler approaches.

Molecular structures can be seen at wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oseltamivir
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shikimic_acid
To say that one substance is "made from" another does not mean that the second is simply a purified form of the first, or a mixture of the first with other substances. Food can be "made from" CO2, but CO2 is lethal.

[LeftyMom]

77. By that logic this is an aspirin.

[NickB79]

79. Thats gonna be hard to swallow. nt

[Liberal Veteran]

82. Don't be silly, you don't swallow the tree.

You pour water over one of the branches and the water retains the memory of the aspirin and becomes homeopathic aspirin.

[Evoman]

80. I know this will mean nothing to people who don't know chemistry (or anything else, for that matter)

This is Shikimic acid





This is Oseltamivir (Tamiflu)




NOT THE SAME THING.

[Liberal Veteran]

81. Oh, sure....you sciencey folks and your facts and diagrams!

Don't you want to live to be 1000 years old and never get sick like people did before big pharma?

:D

[cosmik debris]

84. "The powers that be don't want anybody to know..."

Has there ever been a conspiracy theory nut job that did NOT use that same argument?

It's a dead give away ya know?

[dropkickpa]

88. It BURNS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Owowowowowowowoowowowowowowowowow!

Make it stop mommy!

[Liberal Veteran]

91. There's a secret remedy for burns that the GlobalPharmaGov doesn't want you to know about.

:D