What ever happened to small pox,polio and tb?

[Swede]

Remember how terrified of these we used to be?

[vadawg]

1. no smallpox but ive seen the other two, TB quite recently...

[pnwmom]

2. Actually, there is still a lot of tb. n/t

[barb162]

28. Yes, it seems almost to be coming back. n/t

[jwirr]

58. The new TB strain is quite strong and frequent.

[JonQ]

87. TB is making a comeback in the US

especially along our southern border.

For some reason . . .

[trotsky]

3. That's the problem. Most people DON'T remember...

because of the enormous success of vaccination.

[pnwmom]

5. Those two vaccines were certainly important.

Not all vaccines are equally valuable, however.

[trotsky]

6. In your humble opinion.

I'll stick with the epidemiologists and other educated professionals, thanks.

[Liberal Veteran]

10. +1

[La Lioness Priyanka]

17. ...

:applause:

[pnwmom]

40. You think ALL vaccines are EQUALLY valuable?

This isn't just my opinion. Show me a single medical researcher in the field who would say that the rotovirus vaccine is as valuable as the polio vaccine.

[blondeatlast]

24. Indeed. nt

[Statistical]

27. +1.

[pnwmom]

34. I'd have to be an idiot to think otherwise.

Show me a single claim by a qualified epidemiologist that ALL vaccines are EQUALLY valuable. That, for instance, the rotavirus vaccine is as valuable as the polio or small pox vaccines. You know that you can't.

The major veterinarian organization in 2006 acknowledged the fact that some vaccines are more important than others by dividing up vaccines into a few "core vaccines" and the rest "non-core vaccines." Only the core vaccines are recommended for all dogs or cats; the rest are recommended only in certain situations.

Of course, vets read the animal studies that M.D.'s probably don't bother with; animal studies that have demonstrated the negative effects of multiple vaccines on animals' immune systems.

http://www.healthypet.com/library_view.aspx?ID=143&sid=1

Q: What possible risks are associated with vaccination?

A: Again, severe reactions are uncommon, but any needless risk is unacceptable. In general, vaccine reactions and side effects (such as local pain and swelling) are self-limiting. Allergic reactions are less common, but if untreated can be fatal.

In a small number of patients, vaccines can stimulate the patient's immune system against his or her own tissues, resulting in diseases that affect the blood, the skin, the joints, or the nervous system. Again, such reactions are infrequent.

Q: How do I know which vaccines my pet needs?

A: There are two general groups of vaccines to consider: core-group vaccines and noncore vaccines. Core-group vaccines protect against diseases that are more serious or potentially fatal. These diseases are more easily transmitted than noncore diseases. Core group vaccines are those generally recommended for all pets. For cats, these include panleukopenia, calicivirus and herpesvirus, as well as rabies. For dogs, we include distemper, adenovirus, parvovirus and rabies.

Noncore-group vaccines are those reserved for patients at specific risk for infection due to exposure or lifestyle. For cats, these include feline leukemia virus, feline infectious peritonitis, feline pneumonitis, Microsporum canis, and Bordetella. For dogs, these include kennel cough, Lyme disease, leptospirosis, and giardia.

http://www.veterinarypracticenews.com/vet-cover-stories/vaccination-facts-vs-fiction.aspx

One of the most significant reasons for publishing vaccine guidelines is the fact that an unprecedented number of vaccines are available to veterinarians today.

There are approximately 23 vaccine antigen types for the dog and 18 types for the cat. Combined, there are over 180 proprietary (trade name) vaccines used in companion animal practices throughout the U.S.

But it’s not just the number of vaccines that drives the need for vaccine guidelines.

With so many vaccines to choose from, veterinarians continue to express concern over the frequency of vaccination, the duration of immunity of the various vaccines in use, the important changes in vaccine technology (recombinant and DNA), vaccine safety, medical, legal, and ethical responsibilities associated with implementing a rational vaccination program, and much more.

SNIP

Conclusion
Today there is simply no room for complacency with respect to developing a rational vaccination protocol.

It’s a fact: There are too many vaccines, too many issues and too much new information to ignore the changes affecting the selection and use of vaccines.

The pace of change regarding vaccine technology along with new product introductions virtually mandate that veterinarians carefully assess the manner in which vaccines are selected and used in practice. The canine and feline vaccine guidelines represent an important educational resource for any veterinarian who administers vaccines to dogs and cats.

[trotsky]

36. Misinformation, fearmongering, spamming.

Same old same old.

[pnwmom]

39. You obviously didn't read a single word. These are the official recommendations

of the veterinary society.

[trotsky]

41. You stick with your vet, then.

Good luck.

[pnwmom]

46. One of the reasons for the thalidomide tragedy was that data from dog studies

was ignored.

Medical researchers routinely use animal studies in their research because humans are also animals. This is something you should know.

[trotsky]

47. Good luck with your vet!

:hi:

[Chemisse]

88. Funny how you don't refute the points she made

But just resort to name calling. Pnwmom makes a lot of sense to me.

[trotsky]

92. Don't need to.

It's unrelated to the topic at hand. I'm not going to follow the red herring.

[Chemisse]

93. And yet you always feel compulsed to make a snide comment.

If it's worth your effort to make a comment, it's worth it to make one that refutes the points. Otherwise you just look argumentative.

[trotsky]

96. Just like you did - elsewhere on this thread with your turd.

Pot, kettle.

[mrs_p]

43. there is a different standard for human and animal

vaccines. in veterinary medicine, the companies just need to show that the vaccine causes no adverse effects. in human medicine, there is a much higher standard of both minimized adverse effects and high efficacy.

[girl gone mad]

103. Like these educated professionals?

http://chemistry.about.com/cs/howthingswork/a/aa011604a.htm
http://esciencenews.com/articles/2009/05/19/flu.shot.not.effective.preventing.flu.related.hospitalizations.asthmatic.children
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/10/04/eveningnews/main5362636.shtml
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=113154000
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200911/brownlee-h1n1/2

[La Lioness Priyanka]

16. indeed. those of us who have witnessed polio victims understand the importance of vaccines

and not this antivaccine pseudoscience shit

[Obamanaut]

37. During my elementary school years, and into high school, there

would be at least one kid missing in September who had been there in June - due to polio. Finished HS in 1960.

I think vaccines can be your friends.

[pnwmom]

42. Who is disputing the importance of the polio vaccine?

But who would claim that the rotovirus vaccine is equally important?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

48. not everything is about you. i responded to the person who commented that people

dont remember a life without vaccines. its true. they dont

[Robb]

59. (snicker)

Sorry, sorry. Carry on. :hi:

[pnwmom]

61. And what were you responding to in post #17? n/t

[La Lioness Priyanka]

70. that i trust epidemiologist more than you? i know that must be shocking for you

if the scientific community largely agrees that certain vulnerable populations need vaccinations, even if they are not core vaccines, i agree with them and believe that they are doing this to prevent epidemics and not to have a large autistic population

[trotsky]

53. Half a million rotavirus deaths worldwide in 2004.

I dunno, I think that's a lot of lives. What does your vet think?

[pnwmom]

62. How many in the U.S. or in developed countries with sanitation systems?

It's not an important vaccine in the U.S.

[trotsky]

73. And now the qualifiers come. Goalposts in motion!

Did you ask your vet?

[Euromutt]

104. A parent who lost a child to the virus might disagree

From 1993 to 2003--so prior to the addition of the current rotavirus vaccine to the schedule--rotavirus caused about 2.7 million cases of severe gastroenteritis, 60,000 hospitalizations and 40 deaths annually in the U.S. It accounts for some 50% of hospitalizations of infants and children for severe diarrhea in Europe.

No, rotavirus isn't as nasty as polio or meningitis or rubella, but that doesn't matter if you're one of the forty dead, because you can't get more dead than dead.

[katkat]

22. unless of course,

they were one of the people who got polio from the vaccine (vaccine-associated paralytic poliomyelitis) or from picking it up from people who'd been vaccinated and were shedding the virus.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

25. what were teh numbers of people who got polio from the vaccine

vs people who had polio before the invention of the vaccine?

[vadawg]

29. id give it up, you will never win with the flat earthers

its only because they have lived in the general safe disease free society we have that they would even think of this crap. If they could have seen people die from simple illnesses enmasse or suffering from polio etc then they would probuably be lining up to get vaccinated... my new campaign is vitamin D works for smallpox, so if it ever returns theres more vaccine for others..

[La Lioness Priyanka]

32. yes, i have always thought people should travel to countries where you

can still see aftermaths of being non vaccinated. maybe then they would reconsider how much havoc the real disease wrecked.

history, why does nobody care to know about it!!!

[trotsky]

30. Don't make them have to think.

If a vaccine isn't 100% successful 100% of the time with absolutely zero side effects (even swelling at the injection site) then it's a complete failure and we'd be better off with the disease. :eyes:

[AlienGirl]

60. The killed-virus polio shot can't give anyone the disease.

The killed-virus vaccine is an injection; the live-virus one is orally administered. Anyone afraid their child getting polio from the polio shot should insist on the injectible version.

Tucker

[Better Today]

54. As mentioned above, not all vacs are equal, neither is the threat of all illnesses

Comparing the flu to smallpox or tb or polio is entirely f'd up.

[trotsky]

57. "Comparing the flu to smallpox or tb or polio is entirely f'd up."

Yeah, that is. So who did it? Or are you just making that up?

[Better Today]

64. I believe the OP is doing that. By suggesting that vacs will EVER rid us of the flu in a very

subtle and round about way.

Even if the vacs resolve some flu outbreaks, it will never rid us of the flu in general as it is one of the most mutatable viruses from what I've been reading over the past many years as to why flu vacs don't often reduce the flu outbreaks in many areas...reasons given is that there are too many types of flu to vac for all and they mutate to fast as well.

[trotsky]

71. Ah, so you're completely making something up...

and then bashing it. That would be called a STRAWMAN.

Thanks for clarifying. Better luck next time.

[Better Today]

75. So then what do you propose was the point of the OP? Strawman my ass.

[trotsky]

78. Why don't you ask him, instead of making shit up?

Your ass is indeed a strawman.

[Better Today]

79. Your saying is isn't is more speculative than mine saying it is. So perhaps you're the strawman

starter.

Please feel free to have the OP clarify whatever you need clarified.

I feel I'm reading him loud and clear.

[trotsky]

80. You'll stick with your strawman no matter what.

Good job!

[Better Today]

82. And you're afraid to attempt to prove it's a strawman, go figure.

[trotsky]

83. You're the one with the burden of proof.

You make an outlandish claim that's not even supported by the OP, and you don't have the spine to ask for clarification.

STRAWMAN. That's your label, and you have to live with it.

[Better Today]

85. ROFLMAO! Have a lovely Sunday.

[trotsky]

86. Too bad you don't have the spine to back up what you say.

I find that pretty funny as well, so I'll join you in that ROFLMAO!

[Chemisse]

89. And you are just so flexible - lol

[trotsky]

91. Wouldn't be a good vaccination thread...

if you didn't stop by to drop a stinky little turd. Nice to see ya! :hi:

[Chemisse]

94. Haha - you couldn't disagree with me

Because you are one of several I would call the most inflexible posters I have seen here.

[trotsky]

95. Coming from you, that's a fine compliment!

So why would I disagree?

[Chemisse]

97. So you admit you are inflexible

So if evidence were brought forward that proved you to be wrong, what would you do? Wither and screech like the Wicked Witch of the West?

[trotsky]

98. Inflexible when it comes to affording pseudo-science, anecdotal evidence...

and the testimony of proven frauds (Geiers, et al) any weight whatsoever?

Yup, guilty as charged. I only accept fact-based evidence. If you, or any anti-vaxer, could ever manage to produce such evidence, I'd gladly change my mind.

[Chemisse]

100. I'm not an anti-vaxer, as it happens

Since I and my children have had every vaccine (with the exception of flu shots) every proposed for us to have.

Of course my children are a bit older. If I were making those decisions now, I would say no to the Hepatitis B for my newborns, and I would possibly stretch the vaccination schedule out an extra year or so for my infants.

In the absence of real anti-vaxers here on DU, you and several others have managed to demonize anybody who dares to think for themselves. It's kind of an hysteria.

[trotsky]

102. Didn't call you one.

I said if you OR any anti-vaxer could come up with some kind of actual evidence to support what you're saying, I'd accept it.

But neither you (nor they) have. And there are people on DU against all vaccinations.

[Hansel]

74. Until we get a vaccine that addresses mutation that is.

Never say never. It could and probably will happen.

[trotsky]

99. And there is already very interesting work being done on this.

I wish I could remember where I read this just a few weeks ago, but scientists are now studying how our cells behave after they've been taken over by a virus and are producing more. Turns out there are some chemical markers that are common to just about every virus when they hijack our cell machinery - and if we can train our immune system to head that process off at the pass, we could develop universal vaccination. Very exciting and promising stuff.

[stray cat]

4. vaccines except for tb - and you should respect it - drug resistance is rampant overseas

for tb

[Swede]

9. Perhaps you have forgotten the BCG vaccine for tb.

You'll find the scar on your upper left arm.

[Statistical]

31. I got a scar on my upper left arm but it is from small pox vac.

Only reason I got it is because I was military. I was kind shocked that in the 21st century they wanted to stab me with a little fork. It seems to be effective if not crude method of administering.

[vadawg]

51. the scar one which is it, bcg or small pox???? i got one in thearmy

there along with shitloads more, always wondered why it scarred..

[Statistical]

52. My scar is from smallpox (it is actually the scar from a "pox") but BCG may scar also.

We never got BCG even when deploying to Iraq. Not sure why. Whole bunch of baddies that would make the anti-vaxxer piss themselves (smallpox, anthrax, yellow fever) but not BCG.

[vadawg]

55. i wonder what one i got then, also had the anthrax, yellow fever (made me sick)

and god knows what else, though i remember getting one on a sugar cube when i came back from an excercise.... totally confused me...

[stray cat]

49. As a microbiologist - I actually know it doesn' work well and is not used in the US

because it cross reacts with efforts to detect the disease and isn't particularly effective in preventing the disease.

[lunatica]

7. Small pox was eradicated by the World Health Organization

Polio shots are a regular childhood vaccination so it's kept in check. TB is still around.

[mzteris]

8. shows the importance of vaccines.

anti-vaxers are a danger to themselves and society.

(Yeah, some people CAN'T get them - I'm not talking about those people. I'm talking about the ones who deliberately - and without any reason whatsoever except they don't "trust" them due to some unethical quack snakeoilsalesmentype "doctors" saying vac's are bad for you.)

[Odin2005]

20. anti-expert sentiment is dangerous in general.

In our complex modern world a single person cannot know any more than a tiny fraction of the total amount of knowledge out there, so we rely on experts for help with things we are ignorant in. Sadly nowdays going with one's own ignorance rather than expert opinion is now considered a sign of "open-mindedness" and "willingness to stick it to The Man". :eyes:

[trotsky]

26. Au contraire!

Today we have TEH GOOGLE! You too can be an expert with just a few keystrokes and mouse clicks!

[Posteritatis]

33. But - but - but - opinions and feelings can't ever be wrong!

All I have to do to refute reality itself is simply hold a contrary opinion! Isn't that how the world works now?

[old mark]

11. I'm old enough to remember the terror of polio tha was eradicated

by vaccines - anybody who thinks otherwise is just a chump, and I hope you are vaccinating your kids. Don't make them pay for life for your foolishness.
Let Rush and his followers avoid vaccines - don't be so stupid.

mark

[shraby]

12. I have a cousin who is profoundly deaf from contracting

measles before there was a vac. She had a high fever and bingo no hearing. I work on a website chronicling the county I live in and people would be appalled at the number of people who died (I put the obits in) from curable disease..curable because of vaccinations.

[trotsky]

13. There are anti-vaxers today who think measles is no big deal.

That we should just have "measles parties" like we did with chicken pox. (Which also has caused injury and death, coincidentally.)

[Odin2005]

23. Ironically a pregnant mom with measles is at higher risk of having an autistic kid.

Sad given the "MMR vaccine causes Autism" BS.

[ctaylors6]

44. My OB tested me for measles antibodies

when I told her I was going to try to have a baby that year. Despite having been vaccinated as a child, I showed that I didn't have the antibodies. She highly recommended I get the vaccine and I did. She had me wait a little while after that (can't remember how long), then tested my antibodies again to make sure it had taken that time.

[Dorian Gray]

101. Same with me

but it was Rubella that I had no immunity for. The two Ms were covered. Somehow the Rubella part of the vaccine didn't take when I was a kid. So, I had to wait a month after being re-vaccinated last year before I started trying for a baby again.

[Swede]

18. I had a cousin whose testicles were painfully swollen because of mumps.

It scared the hell out of my family. Thanks goodness for the MMR vacine.

[trotsky]

19. Same thing happened to one of my uncles.

He was sterilized as a result.

[Swede]

35. Fortunately cuz wasn't.

But,that possibility alone should motivate folks to be pro-vax.

[Adsos Letter]

21. My dad had a similar (though less catastrophic) result from a bout of Scarlet Fever.

[Better Today]

81. Otherwise known as Strep, which isn't vaccinated against, it just that it

rarely gets to the point of Scarlet Fever anymore due to antibiotics.

[Odin2005]

14. Vaccines did away with them. Something the anti-vaxers don't get.

My grandmother came close to being paralyzed by polio when she was little. She walked with a limp all her life.

[Better Today]

66. Vacs will NEVER get rid of "the flu" in all its forms and mutations, it can't currently be done.

[Odin2005]

69. They said that airplains and going to the moon couldn't be done, either.

I don't listen to people who insist that something can't be done.

[Better Today]

76. Fair enough, but that day certainly isn't today, and won't be tomorrow either.

[Journeyman]

15. Here's a video, using WHO data, that compares current TB deaths to incidents of H1N1. . .

can't say I agree with all his conclusions, but the numbers of TB deaths worldwide in one 13 day period (24 April to 6 May, 2009) was 63,066.

http://www.gapminder.org/videos/swine-flu-alert-news-death-ratio-tuberculosis/

[slackmaster]

38. My mom almost died of pertussis as a young girl, and I know two people who survived polio

One is paraplegic and the other is able to get around but has a difficult gait. Both are just a few years older than I am.

K&R in the face of the anti-vaxxerz.

:kick:

[pnwmom]

50. My sister DID die of the pertussis VACCINE when she was a baby.

But I'm not against vaccines in general -- just against vaccines that do unnecessary harm, and unnecessary vaccines. Fortunately, the whole-cell pertussis vaccine that killed my sister is no longer used now.

[mrs_p]

45. TB is still terrifying

as there are multi-drug resistant strains on the rise. also, treatment takes awhile (i was on isoniazid for 12 months)

[Odin2005]

56. I hope to God resistant TB doesn't get out of hand.

5 of my grandmother's 14 siblings died of TB or scarlet fever before they were 18

[mzmolly]

63. You mean we don't need to vaccinate against polio

anymore? huh.

Remember how little we feared chicken pox?

[tonysam]

65. Small pox no longer exists (outside of labs)

Polio is extremely rare and eradicated in almost all parts of the world. TB has made somewhat of a comeback, especially when AIDS was on the increase.

[madrchsod]

67. tuberculosis has been around for 2 million yrs and it`s not going away

the big concern in europe is "illegals" migrating to europe with new strains of tb. unlike here in the usa where illegals are afraid to seek treatment for fear of arrest, the european countries make sure all illegals are protected from the arrest so they can receive screening and treatment.

this poster was circulated 80 years ago in the usa




http://www.archaeology.org/0909/abstracts/tuberculosis.html

the full article is really eye opening on what could happen if tb mutates as it has done before.

[Grinchie]

68. Over 14,000 Cases of TB in the US last year.

Over 400 deaths in the U.S alone, according to a video by Ron Paul where he was pointing out how stupidly the Government was reacting to the Swine Flu Pharmaceutical giveaway program.

In this respect, I agree with Ron Paul, who apparently is a doctor himself.

In the mid 60's, Smallpox still existed, and I have the scar to prove it, although I only received the vaccine because my family normally visited deep into the heart of Mainland Mexico. However, let me point out that Smallpox was just a topical skin application with a skin prick, and not a real injection of any sort. It was still pretty nasty however, and the scar I have proves that. If anyone has seen a full blown case of the Smallpox, you'd be willing to put up with the Cowpox anyday.

As for Polio, the vaccine in the 60's was a few milliliters of a sweet tasting liquid administered orally. No injections whatsoever.

In fact, I recently verified that as children, nobody in my family had any vaccines prior to age 7, they just didn't do this back then. It is only recently, starting in the 1990's that they started to administer injections of vaccines to newborns, and surpisingly, nobody ever took the time to consider that a battery of vaccines actually meant more toxic Thimerosol administered to a mini person, whose body weight is 1/20th of an Adult subject.

It's kind of like the Cash for Clunkers debacle occurring right now. The Cask for Clunkers programs mandated that all clunkers turned in be crushed within 6 months. The wrecking yards agreed to that, considering that the program only allocated 1 billion dollars which meant a finite and predictable number of Clunkers to recycle. Then, without thinking, Congress increased the C4C program by another 2 Billion dollars, so now the recyclers are stuck with almost 5 times the number of vehicles to salvage in some cases. Meanwhile, the mandate to crush them all remains.

Whether its the Cash For Clunkers changes that overwhelm the recyclers, or a Battery of Vaccines that overwhelm the immune system of an Infant, who may is some cases be poorly developed due to malnutrition on part of the parents, you still have a problem. With the Recyclers, they can take as long as they need to, or they can crush cars with valuable parts. With the infants whose immune system is circumvented while at the same time is injected with a know Neurotoxin such as Thimerosol, the infant is left in a compromise state, leading to poor health, chronic disease, and indications that this is the cause of the Autism Epidemic that exploded onto the scene in the 1990's.

I saw a friend on mines child turn autistic right after a battery of Vaccinations, and let me tell you, this is a bad fucking deal. The kid's are left totally helpless, addled, and must be supervised for the rest of their lives. The parents are on the hook, and they are left holding the bag without any government support. Just wait till the parent give up and we are the ones paying for the support for these damaged individuals.

The truly sad thing about all of this is that we see the same sort of misinformation coming from the 2 billion dollar a year Vaccine industry that we saw from the Tobacco companies. The researchers linking the Vaccine problems are fighting against ridiculously powerful and wealthy Corporations that have bought the U.S. Government regulatory agencies 10 times over. And yet, here on Democratic Underground, we actually have people that defend this industry and parrot their talking points like it was Gospel.

People need to do their own homework. If you are lazy, or too busy to take the time to review the growing body of overwhelming evidence that point out that Vaccines are at best a crap shoot in some cases, and look at the hard data that implicates the NIH, CDC, Pharmaceutical companies, and the U.S. Government regulators in a very bad way.

At this point in time, I am old enough to have seen all of the lies our Government has presented to us as fact. It became too big a fraud to not notice during the Bush years, and with the cozy, DLC asslicking relationship of the current administration to Corporate and Central Bank interests, they do not have my confidence anymore. Universal Health Care scares Corporate America, simply because the costs involved would for a real look at alternative therapies, and into why Americans are one of the sickest, chnonically Ill, and might I add, stupid civilized people on the planet.

[Name removed]

72. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hansel]

77. My children were born in the 70s and were vaccinated several

times in their 1st year. I think that was pretty standard practice way back there in the olden days.

[Grinchie]

84. They happen to be 20 years younger than I am.

Also, several is a very nonspecific number. Perhaps you might want to grab your childrens vaccination schedule and let us know exeactly what they received.

You do have the little yellow booklet that shows Vaccine History don't you?

I still have mine from the mid 70's. In fact it's the only document that I have not managed to lose over the course on nearly 40 years.

[Chemisse]

90. My children all had shots at 2, 4, 6 and 12 months

And my first was born in 1973. The polio vaccine was a liquid though.