Giant mystery blob found near dawn of time

[IndianaGreen]

Giant mystery blob found near dawn of time

Galaxy-sized object puzzles astronomers; is it related to a black hole?
By Seth Borenstein



WASHINGTON - A strange giant space “blob” spotted when the universe was relatively young has got astronomers puzzled.

Using space and ground telescopes, astronomers looked back to when the universe was only 800 million years old and found something that was out of proportion and out of time. It was gaseous, big, and emitted a certain type of radiation, said study lead author Masami Ouchi, an astronomer at the Carnegie Observatories in Pasadena, Calif.

Scientists don’t even know what to call it. So they just called it a radiation-emitting “blob.” They used that horror-film staple 34 times in their peer-reviewed study, which will be published in next month’s edition of the Astrophysical Journal. More formally, they named it Himiko, after a legendary ancient Japanese queen.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30353034/

They found GAWD!

[Olney Blue]

1. I thought this was a thread about Cheney

[ret5hd]

2. "The Attack of the Pixelated Blob"

Band name or movie title?

[eShirl]

3. FSM

[noamnety]

4. I zoomed in and depixelated it with some advanced PhotoShop filters.

And got this:



:wow:

[sakabatou]

26. ...

:spank:

[Aloha Spirit]

27. oh my GOD

[RandomThoughts]

5. I read up on the name Himiko on wiki

And I have doubts about its accuracy.

The stories they spoke of all said she used sorcery and bewitched people. I consider that bad, making her controlling. There may be more to that story, and the history may be less then accurate, but the idea of controlling is wrong in my view.

Just for an example, look at the example in the story LOTR where the good character Gandalf did many things. But in the film, where did he use magic?

Frodo chose to carry the ring without prompting from Gandalf, free will.
Gandalf went and studied, but refused using the power of the ring, knowing its power was false. Instead he advocated its destruction.
Gandalf cast out evil that was oppressing the king of Rohan.
Gandalf silenced worm tongue.
Gandalf fought a Balrog in the depths of Moria.
Gandalf rode and got the riders of Rohan to help in the defence at Helms deep.
Gandalf stopped a king from burning his own son alive.
Gandalf helped organize the defense of Gondor.

There is only one thing that might be called magic, he asked a butterfly to give a message to an eagle.

Gandalf was not a sorcerer, he shined light, spoke to people, confronted evil, and believed in free will. He refused power of sorcery by advocating the destruction of the one ring.

I would guess Himiko, a leader picked by the people would be more like Gandalf then those stories said of her.

LOTR is of coarse a story, but its metaphors are interesting.

[northofdenali]

7. And Viggo Mortenson is a god.

Damn if he isn't!!!!

[Orrex]

13. LOL!

Of course, while fighting the Balrog ol' Gandalf did create some kind of magical shield/aura thingie.

[muriel_volestrangler]

15. And Gandalf used magic in fighting the Black Riders at Weathertop

and magic to drown their horses at the ford near Rivendell
and magic to light the way through Moria (I think)
and magic to collapse the bridge in Moria
and magic to silence Wormtongue (which was why he needed to keep his staff)
and magic to fight the Nazgul during the defence of Minas Tirith

and he was meant to be keeping his possession of one of the 3 Elvish Rings secret. So he was using a fair amount, really.

[RandomThoughts]

18. Interpretation. Specifically the movie, the book has some differences.

:)

I think it was the river that drowned the horses. So wouldn't the magic be in the water of the river? And in the movie it was the Elven lady, not Gandalf I think at the river.

Shining a light is something anyone can do, not really magical, just an honest or courageous thing.

Did he collapse the bridge or did the Balrog trying to cross it collapse it, it was shown to be fragile even when the fellowship crossed it.

Silencing of evil, I think is a common thing in many beliefs. And when he spoke to wormtounge thunder and lightning occurred, might that have been what silenced him?

I think he fought the Nazgul with his sword, at Gondor at least, in the movie I don't think he was at Minas Tirith. But in the book he confronted the leading Nazgul at Minas Tirith.

And there are many rings, but what part is magic?

When he cast out the evil of the King of Rohan, it was the despair, and hopelessness he cast out, something any person can do.

[muriel_volestrangler]

25. I know the books much better than the film

but I'd said any 'importance' we'd attach to the LOTR story is in the book - both because it's been around longer, and Tolkien was a scholar of myth, and so reflects a much wider tradition of story-telling; while the director (can't remember his name at the moment) was out to make a good film for the time.

Gandalf and Elrond raise the stream together. As I said, I think Gandalf's light is magical, not just burning a piece of wood; yes, he collapses the bridge with a spell (come to think of it, he also uses magic to lock a door in Moria, giving them more time to escape); Gandalf calls up the lightning; there is a stab of light from Gandalf's hand that hurts a Nazgul (Minas Tirith is the capital of Gondor).

It's true that most of what Gandalf does is wisdom, courage, leadership, encouragement, rhetoric and so on; but there is magic there too. And magic is not something just for evil in myths. Remember, too, that Tolkien was a committed Christian as well (Catholic); while much is made of personal responsibility and free will in his religion, there's also a place for miracles in it.

[RandomThoughts]

16. Perception, interpretation

It is spoken of, in many religions, of an armor of light or the armor of God, that one can wear, not letting in the things of evil, by staying in the ways of good.

I think many agree, that the sentiment he spoke while in battle was of good.

"The dark fire will not avail you, go back to the shadows."

[Orrex]

17. And that's not magic?

:wtf:

Gandalf was a creature of magic, on par with the full-blown angels of Christian mythology. Unless you want to say that his actions were some kind of super-reality rather than magic, I don't know how someone can claim that he didn't use any.

And that's just in the films. He used more magic in the books, of course.

[RandomThoughts]

19. I think I am differentiating magic.

In other words, I am classifying 'magic' as different things.

Trying to draw a comparison to the dark magic of Sauron, Controlling the Ring Wraiths, and bent on domination.

With Gandalf, that followed the ideals of free will, and what 'magic' he could have used, could be explained without the way people look badly on 'magic'. It may be semantically. But it is an interesting way to look at the character in the film.

Really its an interesting contrast to how Gandalf acted in the movie, and how the bad things acted.

[Orrex]

20. Okay, but that's sort of like gerrymandering

I can't cite verse and chapter of the Silmarillion, but there's some sort of law that says that magic performed in a manner consistent with Eru's will is okay, but magic performed contrary to his will is invariably corrupting, even if done with good intentions.

I read that to suggest that the magic itself isn't different in terms of good or evil, but the intent makes a great deal of difference.


Since Jackson downplayed the divine cosmogony of Middle Earth, much of this backstory is necessarily lost in the film (and, to be honest, it isn't essential even to the LotR novels, either).

[RandomThoughts]

21. Yes I understand that.

It goes along with quite alot of things, areas of many religions that have miracles, that are not sorcery, but condemn sorcery, creating two sides to magic. Most faiths consider the term 'magic' bad. I think that was part of my context, I was not saying that in that story fantastic things did not happen, just that they really can't be given the bad usage of the term 'magic'

And the intent being the important part is spoken of in many things. However there is an exception to your comment, if someone tries to do good, by doing evil. They are not a bad person, because of intent, they are just mixed up, but they are still doing evil.

Intent separates the character of a person from the act itself. The means are actions of good or evil. The intent, if honest and not self delusional, are the character of the person. However people can think there intent good, when it is not, because of self rationalization of actions, again making learning more important to fixing that problem.

I find the story to be a revealing look at what Tolkien thought of things, and how he viewed many things that are in the real world, many as metaphor, some not, but still it is interesting.

[Orrex]

22. Here's a book you might enjoy

Tolkien's World by Randel Helms. I believe that it's out of print; I got my copy at the local Goodwill, but Amazon has used copies (and maybe your library has it):
http://www.amazon.com/Tolkiens-World-Randel-Helms/dp/0586043659/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1240545158&sr=8-4

Here's another one that looks interesting, but I haven't read it. Also by Helms:
http://www.amazon.com/Tolkiens-World-Randel-Helms/dp/0586043659/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1240545158&sr=8-4
At that price, I won't likely be buying it!

[RandomThoughts]

23. I will look for it next time I am at the used book store.

I have moved away from reading a bit, I like to have conversations when people give opinions and it is harder to do that when reading a book, I have found the Internet to be a great place to look through lots of information and thoughts and have a good conversation on the topics also.

Thanks for the recommendation, and the conversation.

[Orrex]

24. Right back at you!

Nothing annoys me more than when someone on DU asks a question and someone else posts to say "Google is your friend."

I mean, no kidding I could Google the answer, and I'd probably get the answer, but where's the fun in that? It's much better to have an actual person offer a response, because then you can have a discussion about it. Heck, maybe even other people can join in?!?

[TechBear_Seattle]

29. Actually, Gandalf (and Saruman and Sauron) were "angels"

If you read The Silmarillion, written by Tolkein and representing the history of Middle Earth from before the beginning of time through the end of the Second Age of the Sun, you will learn that there are two "grades" of divine beings in Arda, the material world: the Valar and the Maiar. The Valar are greater powers, similar to gods but still servants of Eru, the One. They are aided by the Maiar, beings of the same nature as the Valar but of a lower order.

The history of Arda is dominated by the struggle between the Valar and Melkor, "He Who Arises in Might," also known as Morgoth, the Dark Enemy. Despite being a Vala himself, Morgoth was destroyed at the end of the First Age. His chief servant, a Maia named Sauron, was at first imprisoned; he gained the trust of his captors, however, and taught them the forging of magic rings. Sauron was overthrown at the end of the Second Age.

Around the year 1050 of the Third Age, Greenwood the Great fell under dark forces and transformed into what would later be called the Mirkwood. Fearing this to be the work of Sauron returned, the Valar send five Maiar into Middle Earth to prepare for war. These were the Istari, the Wise: Saruman, Gandalf, Radagast, Alatar and Pallando (the last two names appear in notes left by Tolkein, but because they were sent to more distant lands, they never appear in the LotR canon. However, Unfinished Tales indicates that they had their own vital roles to play in the defeat of Sauron at the end of the Third Age.) Each of the Wizards took a different path in preparing for war: Saruman studied Sauron directly (which is how he became ensared), Gandalf studied ways to resist Sauron's power (his tracing of the One Ring led him to discover the Shire and, oddly enough, the whereabouts of the One Ring itself), Radagast studied the fall of Greenwood and the corruption of its beasts, and Alatar and Pallando pursued and worked to heal the trail of evil Sauron left as he recovered his strength.

Again, the wizards only looked like Men; they were in fact Maiar, angelic beings with angelic natures, wisdom and power. They were given one very strict limit, however: they may not ever use their power to dominate the creatures of Middle Earth. Saruman broke this directive, which is why (in the books) his spirit is denied return to the Far West and is dissipated over the land. Gandalf was very sparing of his direct use of magic because it could easily lead him into the "sin" of dominating others.

As for him denying the One Ring, the scene in the book with Tom Bombadil explains why this was so (I never understood why Tom keeps getting cut from the films: his presence is vital exposition.) If you remember, Tom asks Frodo for the Ring, who reluctantly gives it over. Tom puts it on... and does not vanish. In the dialog that follows, we find out that the Ring works on the desires and wants of is posessor, eventually corrupting them into evil. Tom has everything his heart desires, so the Ring has absolutely no effect on him. Hobbits are, in general, a very contented and satisfied race, which is why Hobbits have proven so resistant to the Ring's influence. This is why Gandalf dares not even touch the ring: he would want to do good, but the Ring would eventually turn him into a new Sauron. (We learn elsewhere that this knowledge is what led him to the Shire in the first place many years before.) This is also why Elrond and Galadriel turned down the Ring when it was offered to them.

And you forgot one thing: Gandalf died when he fought the Balrog. Not even the Valar could send him back: he was returned only by the direct intervention of Eru. He was, quite literally, a Christ figure.

[Dead_Parrot]

6. Hmmm

Case closed.

Ramen!

[Bicoastal]

8. Daaaaah. . .daaaaaah. . .daaaaaaaaah! . . .

DA-DUUUUUUM!!



(Boom boom Boom boom Boom boom)

[Lint Head]

9. This will be on TBN, The Trinity Broadcasting Network, as a photograph

of God. They will say it could be Jesus on his way back. They will say NASA pix-elated it as not to cause mass panic.

[TechBear_Seattle]

10. Ia! Azathoth!

"Outside the ordered universe, that amorphous blight of nethermost confusion which blasphemes and bubbles at the center of all infinity — the boundless daemon sultan Azathoth, whose name no lips dare speak aloud, and who gnaws hungrily in inconceivable, unlighted chambers beyond time and space amidst the muffled, maddening beating of vile drums and the thin monotonous whine of accursed flutes." -- Dream Quest of Unknown Kaddath, H. P. Lovecraft

In The Haunter of the Dark, Lovecraft wrote of "the ancient legends of Ultimate Chaos, at whose center sprawls the blind idiot god Azathoth, Lord of All Things, encircled by his flopping horde of mindless and amorphous dancers, and lulled by the thin monotonous piping of a demonic flute held in nameless paws."

[RandomThoughts]

11. I think his books were of horror scifi genre.

Not my style, so I disagree with his conclusions.

And because a single Narwhal can stop his fictional bad guy :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykwqXuMPsoc


Edit: my interpretation of what a Narwhal is is different then many other people :)

[zbdent]

12. "It was gaseous, big, and emitted a certain type of radiation,"

geez ... I didn't realize Rush was that old ...

[Mr. McD]

14. Chronophagous - the time eater

They travel between galaxies devouring space/time. Yes the universe is truly shrinking one mouthfull at a time.

[steven johnson]

28. Really amazing -- like looking back at the face of God

At 12.9 billion light-years away, this object existed is only 800 million years after the Big Bang. As close as we are probably get to the metaphorical cosmic Garden of Eden.