all us foodies should read this post in GD, it's important info....

[NMDemDist2]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5385100


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5384567

[The empressof all]

1. I know it's sucks

It's funny, my crazy paranoid mother use to refuse to use this stuff when it came out. She wouldn't use processed foods, anything with BHT or MSG. Nothing with food coloring would pass her lips. Our whole family made fun of her for years.

Although she's dead now.....I know if there is an afterlife she's sitting there getting the biggest last laugh you ever heard.

I threw my no stick pans away two years ago and went to Stainless. I keep one non-stick for omelette's.

But this probably will be curtailing my use of the George Foreman--damn it.

[politicat]

2. well...

Couple of things (and I am far from being a chemical industry booster, but I do have a far too solid grounding in chemistry, so that changes how I look at things.)

The chemical in the articles is Zonyl, not teflon, which, while related, is not the same chemical. (Gross oversimplification coming: It's like the difference between hydrogen peroxide and water - they're related, but not hte same and have differing toxicities.) It's not the pans Zonyl was used on, it was the packaging - greaseproof paper. Microwave popcorn and paper plates and freezer foods and stuff. Still bad, but it's not the pans and we can't be mixing them up.

The other question is concentrations and effects, which neither article addresses. Specific numbers are a good thing to see. I won't be buying paper-packed goods that I know are in something other than waxed paper anymore, but that does no good for the last years.

As for cookware... considering we don't have many options - not being able to use cast iron or any ferrous metal cookware (and glass being about not functional for stovetop), We're going to have to continue to use well-cared for non-stick until something else comes around.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

3. I ditched Teflon when

this first was sounded - ditched a whole set of Circulon and a bunch of other Teflon pans. All gone.

I read about screenings taking place all around the country. Sorry, but I don't have a link.

Thank you for this heads-up, AZD.

I got a great set of pots and pans at Costco, thanks to the recommendation of a foodie here (thanks again):



http://tinyurl.com/9h9j3

[housewolf]

4. Your Costco pans...

I need some new pans and am intrigued by that set. Of course I long for the copper-insert All-Clads but, truth be told, I live alone, I'm not a gourmet cook and actually, don't really cook _all_ that much. Still, I want something good for when I do cook something. I had a set of Wofgang Puck's triple-stainless and hated them - everything burned on the edges around the bottom.

So I'm curious about these - how long have you had them, what do you like about them, what do you not like about them? Spill the beans, if you will...

[OldLeftieLawyer]

6. I figured they were just pans...........

heavy, nice curved rims, made in Italy, and then I noticed this:

"Constructed of 18/10 stainless steel, the copper-bonded five-ply base is manufactured to allow even and efficient transfer of heat while eliminating hot spots.

Each pan is manufactured with a five-ply base construction consisting of two layers of stainless steel, two layers of aluminum and a copper core."

I've had these pans for, maybe, six months. I've used them all, and, except for my forgetting to use enough olive oil or butter, and then having to scrub out stuck bits, they have been phenomenal. I throw them in the dishwasher, and they come out sparkling clean. There's been some discoloration, but that's simply cosmetic.

They heat SO quickly and evenly, I find myself using a lower and lower heat under them. It's just a pleasure, cooking with these pans, and I realized I'd forgotten how much fun I'd been missing with Teflon, which was easy and boring.

They are heavy, though, and I'm just a little Leftie, so it takes me two hands to pick them up, but the metal handles stay cool, which surprised me. The bottoms are thick and solid and, yes, heavy.

Then I saw the same set, with some small, unimportant differences in details and fewer pieces (7), at Bloodbath and Beyond - http://tinyurl.com/coz5u - and flipped. Check the price.

The $200 for this 13-piece set is a bargain beyond words, and I suspect it's the last cookware I'll ever buy. We have two other houses, and I got sets for those places, as well.

Consider the beans spilled, baby ...........

I hope this helps.

[housewolf]

7. Ohhhhh.... perfect!

They're just what I've been wanting, then! I'm very aware of the cost of the All-Clad's with the copper - I've been lusting after them for a few years now and just couldn't justify it. I've been biding my time, watching the sales at Amazon and local stores, waiting for the right thing. I almost bought the other set of Kirkland - the set without the copper for $169, but this set sounds like it's just what I want.

Thank you so very much for talking about them tonight and posting the picture! You're my angel for tonight!

[OldLeftieLawyer]

8. Oh, pshaw.....

I'm nothing but a minor deity, really.

<snort>

Get them. Honestly, you'll love them. Save the box, and if you're not crazy about them, Costco will take them back.

And, you're buying from the bluest retailer around, which makes it even better.

Maybe I should go to Costco today .......?

Hmmmmm.

Glad to help. Anytime.

Here's to you:

[jeanarrett]

10. I'm going to check them out too. Hey, what's

the deal with Costco only taking American Express? Is American Express blue too? Anyway, I applied for AE and will use it just to shop at Costco!

[OldLeftieLawyer]

11. Amex blue?

I don't know. I hate them so much, I never bothered to check, but you can find out here: buyblue.org.

Costco is one of the last places where I write checks. It's oddly rewarding, quaint and retro.

You'll love that cookware, and, belatedly, welcome to DU!

Oh, and you should keep in mind that "The Empress Of All" here is Satan....................;)

[housewolf]

13. I just called my local Costco...

And they have them in stock! Guess where I'm going tomorrow!!!

[Tab]

5. I thought the teflon thing was just about workers in the factory

and so I haven't followed it (not that the workers aren't important, but it would just be "another" factory exposure story). It's about the product as shipped?

[Stinky The Clown]

9. Possible Teflon Alternative

Sitram's Cybernox line of 'stick resistant' cookware.

http://www.sitramcookware.com/cybernox.htm

The non-stick is a metal, not a chemical coating. I have three of these - all fry pans. They work fine ..... except .....

Eggs stick a bit, but with a very small amount of oil or butter, they don't.

The surface is very hard and will tolerate metal utensils. No need to stay with wood or plastic.

The downside? They have that aluminum disk bottom. The pans are made from stainless and stainless is a crappy heat conductor. That's why it is enhanced in several ways. Some (like Revereware) coat the outside bottoms with copper. Some make a sandwich with an aluminum, copper, or several-layered core and keep the stainless on the outside. Others affix an aluminum or copper disk to the bottom and encapsulate the disk in stainless. The stuff with the disk bottom tends to get very hot (to the point of scorching, sometimes) at the edge of the disk where it goes to unprotected stainless. The Sitram uses this system.

Ideally they would have used a multi-ply system, like Allclad and even some cheaper stuff. Coat **that** with Cybernox and you'd have a near-perfect 'stick resistant' pan.

Sitram calls their stuff 'stick resistant' because it is simply not as slick as Teflon. The advantage comes in when cleaning it. Even hard burnt stuff is *relatively* easy to clean.

Overall, this is a good start to a Teflon alternative, but it needs a bit more work. And it isn't cheap.

But I would recommend this stuff to anyone who wants some level of non stick but won't do Teflon. The Cybernox line just needs some getting used to. It is quality stuff.

The Cybernox coating came out of the aerospace industry. It is a metal alloy used in jet engine parts. The French government sponsored research into alternate uses for it. This cookware is one result of that research.

The website liked above tells more.

[mtnester]

12. OK, now i need some guidance

I have one hard anodized Calphalon brand skillet, and some Kitchen Essentials by Calphalon product. The one hard clad skillet of course cost me an arm and left leg. The Kitchen Essentials did not cost as much.

So, I have heard the Teflon discussions, and am now ready to bail completely. Do I keep the Kitchen Essentials stuff which to me, look like they have a Teflon coating?m Is my hard anodized skillet OK?

The discussions out on Google are confusing...

Or maybe I am just looking for an excuse to validate a new cookware purchase too? :)