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If you really want to try to get a handle on this Pluto/Saturn time period, read this:

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Ricochet21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 10:13 PM
Original message
If you really want to try to get a handle on this Pluto/Saturn time period, read this:
This is an abbreviated synopsis from THE MAN on understanding Saturn and Pluto combinations. Richard Tarnas, from his World Trade Center talk just after 9/11. His book, "Cosmos and Psyche", explains these combinations to the Nth degree.

His full 9/11 talk on Saturn/Pluto can be found at: http://www.gaiamind.org/WTCNotes.html

Here is an excerpt of each of his 25 talking points, in his words:

Here then are characteristic manifestations when Saturn and Pluto come into major hard alignment:

1) Dark, grave, momentous, deadly serious, profoundly weighty events.
2) Intensely dramatic times, with enduring consequences ensuing from current decisions and actions, with much at
3) The feeling of being caught helplessly in the grip of overwhelming, powerful, and often dark forces, of being
4) Deep humiliation effected by violence, violation, and defeat. A compensatory need to prove one's steely
5) The empowerment of forces of hatred, murderous aggression, of evil and the demonic, of the secretive and
6) Absolute determination, courage, and sacrifice, unbending will, intensely brave silent strenuous effort.
7) A deeply sobering awareness of the world’s dangerousness. The potential for either a highly grounded and
8) The empowerment of conservative or reactionary forces, bringing about an emphatic increase in defensive
9) A tremendous intensification of the harshest aspects of reality—material, mortal, existential. Negativity of
10) The encounter with that form of the numinous which inspires awe and dread, even terror; confronting a power—
11) The eruption of massive, titanic, volcanic, overwhelming elemental forces that have a negative, collapsing,
12) The annihilation of the established order and of the enduring structures symbolizing that order. Also,
13) Confinement and constriction intensified to claustrophobic, life-threatening, or even lethal dimensions (cf.
14) Experiences that in their traumatic intensity and gravity take many years to absorb, integrate, or heal from.
15) In general, the emphatic intensification of conflict and separation, of intractable enmities, of problems,
16) The tendency towards ruthless complete "othering": intense objectification of other subjects. This extreme o
17) A tendency to see things in terms of a confrontation between good and evil.
18) Both the confrontation with evil, with the shadow, and the constellating of it. Periods of collective intense
19) Historically a tendency in the collective psyche to constellate the shadow by eliciting or projecting
20) Experiences of irrevocable catastrophe, intense loss, endings, death, resulting in lasting sense of deep
21) A sense of the tremendous inescapable weight and burden of history, the past, errors from the past, ancient
22) The sense of an ominous, darker reality descending on an age.
23) A sense of the irrevocable end of an era; the destruction of the established order of existence, the end of an
24) A greatly intensified and deepened maturation of a person or a culture, leaving its puer dream and entering a
25) The galvanizing of the will, a sense of stern purposefulness, grim determination.

<snip>
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peacefreak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
1. Wow.
Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play? I hope whatever is waiting for us on the other side of this is full of beauty. We're going to need it.
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I'd be LOLing right now, if that first line didn't floor me.
Ouch.
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-02-10 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
2. I'd say that's dead on b*lls accurate.
Damn. I will be thinking about this all night.
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NJCher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 04:46 AM
Response to Original message
4. date info
when and for how long?


Cher



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Ricochet21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. Since 2009
and probably through 2012
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NJCher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 05:12 AM
Response to Original message
5. wonder if...
The Bible Code guy was on C2C on 11/1. I thought his book had lost credibility and hadn't paid much attention to it since I read the first one years ago.

But he says (and I have not checked this out, so this is purely the author's version) that some Australian guy has a major bone to pick with his theory and has set up websites all over to blow holes in it. The author claims his theory is credible.

Regardless, this is just something to mull over. He says that there is the threat of a nuclear attack and I think it's going to come out of the blue. Terrorist deal and it is up to Barack Obama to prevent it.

Furthermore, he has made sure Obama is aware of the code.

Here's a link to read more.

http://www.thebiblecode.com/?p=10

The author's web site is new--just went up in the past week or so. Until now he hasn't had one. The above link is an excerpt and you can click the home page to read up and see a little more of the site.

Such an event would certainly fit what the op has posted.

Also, another thing. In the interview, Drosnin, the author, said there is one word that sums all this up: Iraq.

He continued, saying that it was a major mistake. It is like attacking Mexico for Pearl Harbor.

So once again, we have Barack Obama contending with the disaster of the bush years. republicans wrecked the economy by letting the banksters run wild, they gave the ocean a major hit (Halliburton, defective cement), and now this possibility. And here we are, post-election morning, looking at the same evil people/party taking over the House. The system has to change.


Cher

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Celebration Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 06:02 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. I have a theory about the Bible Code
after hearing this guy talk.........

I don't really think there is a "code" in the Bible. But I do feel that it functions sort of like reading the tarot cards. I feel that there is operator interaction, at the very least. So, when people set out to make predictions about the future using the Bible code, it is their own consciousness that is being tapped.

That's my theory. Obviously I haven't done the math. But I bet the math would work on tarot cards, too.
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Howler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. You can use any book to channel.
I sometimes like to use the Tao it channels beautifully.
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Celebration Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. and, apparently
A regular deck of cards can be the tarot.

The thing is, the Bible code people would not "get" this idea. They are really into proving the math.
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Howler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #16
26. As I understand it
The math was discredited with "The Bible Code" you can get the same results with "Moby Dick"and "Paradise lost" as with the bible code.
Celebration, of course they don't get it and want to prove the "Math" any form of divination is "Witchcraft" unless of course it involves the 'Bible" snort!. I have never seen more superstitious people then those of any strong fundamentalist faith.

I 've gotta tell you I read the Bible Code and was not impressed with the system nor the Author.I have had quite enough of fear and end times stuff and I want the time it took me to read that tripe back.

I do feel from my own experience that playing cards and other methods including oddly enough Tie dyeing ( which for Me is "new") do channel.
When spirit talks all you have to do is listen and there is no medium that it can't or won't communicate through........Well except maybe politics LOL! At least today.
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rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 08:00 AM
Response to Original message
7. Ummm. Is that all?
Seriously feeling the first 23 of those points this morning and working my way up to 24 and 25.
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Ricochet21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. I know, it is quite sobering
but has a "good" side too. It means we get serious and get rid of the problems that we need to. In other words, we have to be sobered so we stop pushing the problems aside: collectively speaking.
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rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. I am sure that you know but telling a Cappie to get serious can be like
throwing gasoline on a fire. :P

But I do appreciate your helping decipher the times. Am looking pretty deeply inside to find something to cling to today. Tomorrow will no doubt be better. This am is pretty tough.
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I Have A Dream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. "Telling a Cappie to get serious can be like throwing gasoline on a fire."
:thumbsup:

We can do "serious".

Yes, tomorrow will be better, rosie. We just need to try to focus on fun, uplifting things today. I bet you have at least one family member who can make you laugh even right now. ;)

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rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. It's a pretty glum group... I may have to step up and deliver the humor.
'Serious' and I be mates... as you probably know my cappie friend. :hug:

Maybe this is more about the rest of the crowd realizing that the slippery slope leads to a not very nice place. Currently ooking for footholds and not about to give up.
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I Have A Dream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. I've been thinking for quite a while that so many people around...
me (people who I really like) still have not learned anything at all from what happened during the Bush years; they have absolutely no problem with anything that that regime did.

I certainly don't wish hardship on anyone (and it's especially tough since many people who will experience the hardships are already awake), but maybe this is the only way that the Universe can help people who are still operating without thinking for themselves to awaken. I've found that when I work to learn my lessons right away, the lessons are usually quite gentle. It's only when I refuse to learn them or bury my head in the sand that the Universe kicks it up a notch. (Absolutely for my benefit, but, oh, it certainly doesn't feel that way when I'm going through it.) It's those compassionate, caring people who will end up being the "collateral damage" that really concern me. My heart hurts for them. :(

No, we'll not give up. We're strong. Oh, and we volunteered for this. ;)

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rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. There you go again being practical...
and damn it, yes, I did volunteer for this. I keep forgetting that. What was I thinking?
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I Have A Dream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. I was going to say "What were we thinking?!!!"...
but I was trying to be positive. :P

That question was certainly hanging in the air though; wasn't it? :rofl:

The scary thing is that we'll probably be the first ones in line next time as well. :scared:   ;)

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rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. I was told that this lifetime would give me double points
so the next one I can spend wealthy and healthy on some pleasant-weathered beach and all my friends, relatives and acquaintances will be happy and fulfilled.
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Sanity Claws Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
10. I feel it's been working on the personal level as well as the big picture
"May you live in interesting times."

I understand now why that is considered a curse.
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LaurenG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
12. Some of these are actually positive.
I'll take:
6) Absolute determination, courage, and sacrifice, unbending will, intensely brave silent strenuous effort.
12) The annihilation of the established order and of the enduring structures symbolizing that order.
23) A sense of the irrevocable end of an era; the destruction of the established order of existence, the end of
24) A greatly intensified and deepened maturation of a person or a culture, leaving its puer dream and entering a
25) The galvanizing of the will, a sense of stern purposefulness, grim determination.

Number 6 and 25 are telling us something, the galvanizing of the will is seriously underused in many of us. IIRC Will is a first ray quality and is often neglected due to not knowing how to use it.

Will Desire formulated so clearly and carried so powerfully to an intelligent climax that the mode of its materialisation is grasped with such accuracy and energised with such intent that the result is inescapable. Pure will is only possible to a coordinated thinker, to truly self-conscious entities; the basis of the One Life which synthesises all groups; the unity of love and intention; the energy of the soul expressing itself as direction, progress and conformity to the Plan; monadic essence qualified by "fixed determination" which is identified with the Will or Purpose of the planetary Logos; the highest divine aspect which the initiate finally manifests, prior to entering upon the Way of Higher Evolution; active intelligent purpose, lovingly applied. (see Way, Love, Purpose)

Will-Purpose The steely, brittle, determined, dynamic will of the devoted aspirant must change into the steadfast, calm purpose of the soul working through the disciple. The soul is fluid in adjustment but undeviating in aim; quality of the first Ray. (see Rays)


http://www.souledout.org/souledoutglossary.html

Anyway, I feel heavy and serious but thankfully the anger has taken it's leave at least for now. Oh yippy (not)to the rest of those. :( Thanks Rick.


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Ricochet21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. Exactly, and look at the past Saturn - Pluto times
Edited on Wed Nov-03-10 02:05 PM by Ricochet21
they were exactly opposite each other on 9/11
(This is just part of what Cosmos and Psyche is about)
1994 square
1982 conjunct
1973 square
1965 opposite
1956 square
1946 conjunct
1938 square
1931 opposite
1922 square

1866 Civil War over
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Sanity Claws Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. wow -- those were big years
I'll have to look up 1946 and 1922 to see the big events associated with those years but for the other years, the significance is pretty obvious.
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Ricochet21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. WWII ended
Edited on Wed Nov-03-10 01:48 PM by Ricochet21
1946

This one is much more significant because Pluto was already in a "I'm not messing around mood" once it left party-happy, anything goes Sagittarius (Bush) and went into sober Capricorn (Obama). That's the difference this time.

And, the USA's Saturn return in coming in November. Lots of turning pts.
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Sanity Claws Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. war ended in 1945
Edited on Wed Nov-03-10 01:52 PM by Sanity Claws
V-E day May 8, 1945

V-J day August 15, 1945

The UN Charter was signed in 1945 too.

Another major event was use of the Atomic bomb, again 1945

Whatever happened in 1946 seems to pale in comparison to the momentous year of 1945.
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rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. three of those were hugely difficult years for me personally
Edited on Wed Nov-03-10 01:58 PM by rosesaylavee
1994 square - serious health issue for my immediate family, and most of all my siblings all had life-changing awful things.
1982 conjunct - again moving/job/life purpose issues
1973 square - my father died when I was entering high school.

So if THAT's the level of goop we are dealing with... don't mind me if I go hide under my bed.

on edit... interesting thought... the bad things technically happened to those around me and I was there as support. And tho it was very tough to be that support, I was not the one personally experiencing the health, job/moving, death (obviously as I am writing this)... so maybe my role is as support again. I will need all my vitamins this time round. This pretty profoundly scary.
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Ricochet21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-03-10 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. All along, we are known for saying
"One day, IT'S going to catch up with you."... Saturn/PL is when it does. It'll change...
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