A question:

[Myrina]

I know someone who was recently diagnosed with a potentially catastrophic illness.

- It can be treated but the treatment is extremely expensive, in some cases drastic/painful and not 100% guaranteed.
- This person doesn’t have financial means to make up the difference in what insurance wouldn’t cover without losing their savings/house etc.
- This person has no close personal ties (friends/family/spouse).
- This person feels they have led a particularly unfulfilling life, and has said that if this disease is the Universe offering an ‘exit ramp’, they are ok with that.
- This person has said that if/when they start to ‘feel crappy’, they’ll sell everything, quit their job and go see the places in the world they always wanted to see, until they’re too ill to continue traveling.

Do they have the right to tell their dr to bugger off?
Do they have the right to deny treatment and live out the rest of (however long) as they see fit?
Why does society insist that people diagnosed with any disease must “fight”, no matter the (physical, emotional, financial) cost?
Why is our society so programmed to fear death/letting go?

Thoughts?

[Ricochet21]

1. My 2 cents

Do they have the right to tell their dr to bugger off? YES
Do they have the right to deny treatment and live out the rest of (however long) as they see fit? YES
Why does society insist that people diagnosed with any disease must “fight”, no matter the (physical, emotional, financial) cost?
It doesn't matter why.

Why is our society so programmed to fear death/letting go? Because they believe in separation.

Thoughts?

Peace and love to your friend.

[elleng]

2. They certainly have the 'rights' to do as you suggest,

and I'm pleased to learn there are places they want to see and that they may, in fact, be able to see some of them.

P.S., mention, if you'd like, Road Scholar trips, formerly Elder Hostel. Great trips all around the world, 'guided,' one can decide which trips to take vis a vis 'exertion' level desired.

[Myrina]

7. I will forward that info, thanks.

:hi:

[Avalux]

3. My Aunt died from metastatic breast cancer almost a year ago.

She was a nurse and fully aware of her treatment options and sucess rate. She made it clear to everyone she would make her own decisions and do as she wished. After enduring many rounds of different kinds of chemo and suffering terribly for 2 1/2 years with no real progress, she made the decision to not continue to pursue treatment. She was tired of fighting. She met with a end of life counselor so she could come to grips with her death and when the time came, stopped eating, stopped drinking and refused pain medication because she wanted to be fully lucid at the end. She planned it all out, was in control, and was at peace with her decisions. It's difficult for those who love her to understand; some family members (like my mother) didn't understand at all.

Of course we don't want to lose our loved ones; but we must respect their right to make whatever decisions they choose about their life and death, and support them if we're able.

To your questions - yes - a patient can fire a Dr. and they definitely have a right to live out the rest of their life as they choose. Please encourage your friend to draw up a legally binding Living Will so if he is ever not able to make decisions, it will already be on paper.

Hugs to you ----- :hug:

[kimmerspixelated]

4. I hope your friend

Can consult with a naturopath or someone able to really help away from western medicine. A nutrtritional makeover can do wonders for every situation. A spiritual leader as well. Also Qi-Gong is great for moving the all important Chi. Sorry for the spelling errors I've misplaced my glasses. Sounds like there is basic underlying depression that needs to be dealt with. Sympathies and love and light to your friend.

[get the red out]

5. Living will

They will need a living will, to make sure than if they are at some point unable to speak for themselves that drastic measures won't be used to keep their body limping along just a little longer.

[Myrina]

6. ,,, are they recognized outside the US?

What I took from the conversation was, that he plans to travel until he just doesn't wake up one morning. Not 'take a world tour and then come back'. So if he were to get to those end stages overseas, would a hospital overseas require instructions?

[get the red out]

8. I'm not sure, but

it probably wouldn't hurt to have one with him just in case, or check into the specifics in the countries he plans on visiting.

[eilen]

9. They have the right to proceed in whatever manner they see fit.

Their doctor, of course, can as well. Which means that some doctors may disengage a patient that does not wish to follow their best advice. They may feel they have nothing to offer them and that their office hours may be better spent with a patient who does want to follow their advice.

That is a downside. However, there are thousands of health practitioners in the country and I'm certain your friend will find one that corresponds with his/her health beliefs.

I have a friend who is choosing her own healing journey that goes against conventional medical wisdom. She has found practitioners willing to work with her.

People are judgmental. Most feel that someone with a family, who does not fight, is being selfish. If you have ever watched the Showtime series _The Big C_-- the entire first season is about the emotional journey of a woman who has decided to forego treatment. At the end she changes her mind. But throughout, except for a couple of people, she keeps her diagnosis secret to prevent people from looking at her like a victim and also, to prevent the judgment/criticism about her choice.

If your friend is smart, they won't wait until they are feeling "crappy" before they set out for an adventure. Tell them to go now while they are feeling good. It is no fun to travel sick. Also, if finances are an issue, better to spend down assets or the medical establishment will take them all at end of life. It would be a good idea to have a MOLST/advanced directives put in place as well.

[SheilaT]

10. Personally, I find it quite strange

that the conventional wisdom is that you "fight" to the end, even if it means absolutely no quality of life, ongoing pain and suffering.

And for what it's worth, those in hospice tend to live longer, and with better quality of life, than those who refuse hospice.