"Kerry swiftboated twice" Pat Buchanan

[sandnsea]

Isn't that incredible that it takes somebody from the other end of the political spectrum to point out the obvious. Just now on Scarborough. And our own party grassroots just doesn't get that they're letting the most liberal candidate with a chance of getting elected, the one who really wants to end this war, be kicked out from under them. :banghead:

[TayTay]

1. I agree. I think it's being done by factions with the Dem Party

who don't want to actually do anything about Iraq.

Did you see this today:

5. The "Go Big" strategy of the Pentagon could work. The Pentagon apparently is about to forward three options to Bush for a retreat: "Go Big," meaning more troops for a short time, "Go Long," a gradual withdrawal while training Iraqis, and "Go Home," acknowledging defeat and getting out. Go Big is what McCain and Zinni and others are proposing, as if adding 20,000 or 30,000 troops will do the trick. The argument about more troops, which speaks also to the "incompetence dodge" (i.e., that the war wasn't wrong, just badly managed), has one problem: no one can convincing prove that modest increments in troop strength will change the security situation in Iraq (see #1 above). One would need 300,000 or more troops to have a chance of pacifying Iraq, and that is neither politically feasible or logistically possible, and is therefore a nonstarter. So is "Go Big."

http://www.alternet.org/story/44771

This is the McCain solution and I wouldn't be surprised if certain Big Dems sign on to this as well.

John Kerry 6/14/2006 at Take Back America, speaking after Sen. Hillary Clinton spoke and refused to back any proposals for withdrawing Americans from Iraq:

Let me say it plainly. Let me say it plainly. It's not enough to argue with the
logistics or to argue about the details or the manner of the conflict's execution or the
failures of competence, as great as they are. It is essential to acknowledge that the war
itself was a mistake. (Cheers, applause.) To say the simple words. (Applause.) To say -
- to say the simple words that contain more truth than pride.

We were misled. We were given evidence that was not true. It was wrong, and I
was wrong to vote for that Iraqi war resolution. (Cheers, applause.) And I will vote --
(prolonged cheers and applause) -- and I will vote -- (cheers and applause continuing) --

We cannot -- one of the great lessons of life is that you cannot change the future if
you're not honest about the past. And we cannot have it both ways in the war in Iraq.
The truth is -- the truth is that America is imprisoned in a failed policy. And as in
Vietnam, we're being told that admitting mistakes -- not the mistakes themselves -- will
provide our enemies with an intolerable propaganda victory. Well, that too, my friends,
is a lie. (Applause.) And history proves it. History proves it.

http://home.ourfuture.org/tba06/docs/0613cfaf-kerry.pdf

[Democrafty]

2. Tay, if you get a chance, please post these snippets

in a comment on the JK blog.

[sandnsea]

3. Possible GD post

Yes or no?

Subject Line: You helped swiftboat Kerry - again

Post:

Just like you did in 2004. He answered then, just like he answered now. And then, like now, the grassroots stood back and let the media slaughter him. Pat Buchanan is the first to admit Kerry was swiftboated - twice. Yes, Pat Buchanan - not one of our own Dems. Matthews said it repeatedly on his show, that the faxes were flying like there was an APB. And you guys buy right into the 'gaffe' prone bullshit - despite the fact that worst things have been said since then and slid right off the radar.

The Bushies do not want a strong voice against the war. The Clinton team does not want a strong voice to end the war.

They don't want an anti-corporate President. They don't want legislation like Wellstone-Kerry Clean Campaign reform. They don't want the anti-pork McCain-Kerry legislation. They don't want environmental and labor rights in our trade agreements, like Kerry always fights for. They don't want to pay for environmental clean-up. They don't want health care plans like SCHIP or the HIV/AIDS, TB and MALARIA ACT. They don't want a National Housing Trust.

They want to pile another load of corporate shit down your throat and they don't care if it's Giuliani, McCain or Clinton.

If you think your 'hot' candidate, like Edwards or Obama or Clark, is going to escape this kind of swiftboating - then ask yourself whether it's because they won't stand up to the status quo or they just aren't perceived as a threat yet.

[wisteria]

6. Go ahead and post it. Maybe it will sink in to some. But don't count

on the Clinton enablers. They hear no evil, speak no evil, or do no evil in their world. Media control and manipulation, and other questionable things, don't matter to them.

[sandnsea]

7. We'll see

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=132

[karynnj]

8. I don't think it's a good idea to so clearly attack the Clintons

over on the main board EXCEPT with cold solid facts. It will turn off the lurkers - who we need to win. Even with pretty solid posts we have nuclear small pets attacking us - and the problem is that she can look rational. Consider that although there have been fingerprints - most things have been pretty covert. (This from someone trying to keep fingers from typing "cattle futures" or "Indonesian bank" I hate that Clinton has been white washed and acts as though 1992 was a cakewalk where people quickly saw his greatness - when in fact at one point he polled 3 out of 3.

[politicasista]

9. Exactly

The lurkers are who we need and the last thing we need to do is turn them (and others that post here) off or against Kerry by constantly bashing the Clintons without hard facts, otherwise it could be disregarded as "conspiracy theories" and not play well in the real world.

[sandnsea]

11. The war seems clear to me

I think that's her weakest position. She was one of the key backers of actually going to war, wanting to create a tough on defense image a la the DLC strategy to win elections. She's been one of the chief stumbling blocks in setting out a clear alternative or even telling the truth about the WMD lies. I really do think Kerry is being attacked by her for that reason alone. If he'd never said a peep about Iraq, nobody would care anything about him.

[sandnsea]

4. Pentagon proposals - yes I've been hearing

It's almost too heartbreaking to think about. Do they forget we had half a million troops in Vietnam and it didn't work? You listen to these shows and they talk about all these people and their Iraq plans - and it's like the name John Kerry sits like the elephant in the room that everybody sidesteps and will not talk about. Obviously he is the only one who knows what to do.

[beachmom]

5. Will there be a transcript available? I would like to read

what he said precisely.

[sandnsea]

12. It was during the "LIVE" portion

I checked for a transcript for you. It doesn't look like they have transcripts of the morning news.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3719710/

[karynnj]

10. In reality - this is at least the third time

The Rw hit him very very hard when he ran in 1972. This was the man that Nixon wanted destroyed. Considering the fire power used against him - it's remarkable that he is still in public life - much less the 16 highest ranking Senator in senority and the last Democratic nominee - needing only 60,000 more votes in Ohio.

After what they did to him - it is sick that the joke was helped by Democrats to gain political ground - which it won't if you thinmk about it. The only way if gains ground is if Kerry supporters desert him for HRC or he drops out.