Kerry: McCain "out of step with history and facts"

[Mass]

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0508/Kerry_McCain_out_of_step_with_history_and_facts.html

Kerry: McCain "out of step with history and facts"

Criticized by McCain for not going to Iraq, Obama's camp holds a conference call this morning listing McCain misstatements on Iraq, and focusing on the claim in a McCain fundraising email that troop levels are down to those before the surge.

“That’s just not true and everybody knows that’s just not true," said Wisconsin Governor Jim Doyle. "The fact is that we are not down to pre-surge levels."

John Kerry listed past McCain mistakes on Iraq, including confusing Sunni and Shiite.

"John McCain is out of step with history and facts," he said, saying McCain's mistakes raise "serious questions about his comprehension of this challenge."

[beachmom]

1. Awesome. Thanks for posting.

[beachmom]

2. USA Today now has a story with audio. McCain has responded. Obama responded back.

http://blogs.usatoday.com/onpolitics/2008/05/obama-mccain-su.html

[Inuca]

3. These statements

coming ut of the McCain camp, also what he says himself, are VERY nasty in content and form. Silly too. The thing with counting the number of days since BO has been to Iraq reminds me of the silly counter Chris Wallace used to have on his SUnday show.

Clearly John Kerry and Barack Obama have very little understanding of troop levels, but considering Barack Obama hasn't been to Iraq in 873 days and has never had a one on one meeting with Gen. Petraeus, it isn't a surprise to anyone that he demonstrates weak leadership.

:puke:

[beachmom]

10. Ah, yes the "Condescension of John McCain"

http://www.democracyarsenal.org/2008/05/the-condescensi.html

But besides another in a steady litany of misstatements about Iraq, what I found most striking about McCain's response is its amazingly condescending nature.

Then he goes on to show the statement about Obama and Kerry having no understanding, blah, blah, blah.

These words follow on the heels of a statement a few days ago about Obama's criticism of McCain's position on the Webb GI Bill:

Perhaps if Senator Obama would take the time and trouble to understand this issue, he would learn to debate an honest disagreement respectfully.

Now, it's not my place to give advice to John McCain but in any presidential campaign, ideas matter, but so of course does perception - and frankly McCain's spokesman (Tucker Bounds) comes across, with these words, as kind of a jerk. The attitude expressed here is just incredibly demeaning, dismissive and rude.

Now I understand that McCain is trying to demean Obama and his foreign policy experience but the way he's chosen to go about it is really not helpful. Americans are generally not supportive of presidential campaigns that are arrogant and condescending, especially when they are expounding a view (about the war in Iraq) not shared by two-thirds of them.

Thing is, Tucker Bounds is only the messenger for "the jerk". I have heard McCain himself talk about people who didn't see things in Iraq how he did "lacked an understanding" or "didn't know what they were talking about". He kind of comes across as arrogant, completely on his own.

[beachmom]

4. Oh my God I love the one-two punch!! It's like Kerry goes in first

to take out some barriers to prepare for the main attack .... from Obama:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/5/30/17212/1308/105/525694

"There are honest differences about how to move forward in Iraq, just like there were honest differences about whether or not we should go to war," Obama is supposed to say. "John McCain was for the invasion of Iraq; I opposed it. John McCain wants to continue George Bush’s war in Iraq indefinitely; I want to end it. So there’s going to be a clear choice for the American people this November."

"But that’s not what John McCain’s been talking about the last few days. He’s been proposing a joint trip to Iraq that’s nothing more than a political stunt. He’s even been using it to raise a few dollars for his campaign. But it seems like Sen. McCain’s a lot more interested in my travel plans than the facts, because yesterday – in his continued effort to put the best light on a failed policy – he stood up in Wisconsin and said, 'We have drawn down to pre-surge levels' in Iraq."

"That’s not true, and anyone running for commander-in-chief should know better. As the saying goes, you’re entitled to your own view, but not your own facts. We’ve got around 150,000 troops in Iraq -- 20,000 more than we had before the surge. We have plans to get down to around 140,000 later this summer -- that’s still more troops than we had in Iraq before the surge. And today, Sen. McCain refused to correct his mistake. Just like George Bush, when he was presented with the truth, he just dug in and refused to admit his mistake. His campaign said it amounts to 'nitpicking.'"


"Well, I don’t think tens of thousands of American troops amounts to nitpicking. Tell that to the young men and women who are serving bravely and brilliantly under our flag. Tell that to the families who have seen their loved ones fight tour after tour after tour of duty in a war that should’ve never been authorized and never been waged."

BOOM!! Am I crazy to suggest that I hear Kerry in those words? And this is not a case of "taking credit"; I just think that this wing of the party is in TOTAL SYNC. So that is why the tag team works so brilliantly. Kerry pounded the McCain campaign this morning. Then McCain stupidly acted like he didn't make a mistake in the early afternoon. Now Obama is takin' it home this evening. This is fantastic stuff.

[beachmom]

5. MSNBC has more of his remarks:

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/05/30/1086105.aspx

Obama backers Wisconsin Gov. Jim Doyle and Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry hit back against McCain on comments he made about troop levels in Iraq and his policy for continuing the war there.

They also slammed the Arizona senator for using Gen. David Petraeus in a fundraising email, accusing him of “politicizing the military.” Doyle argued the action “crosses the line,” “it is a bad step to take” and uniformed military should not be used as “political fodder.”

Asked at a news conference this afternoon if it was “appropriate” for him to appear in fundraising material alongside Petraeus, McCain responded, “No. It won’t happen again.”

In addition, Kerry called McCain’s request for Obama to go to Iraq an “overt political stunt” that “would have no relevance to real fact finding.” But Kerry recommended Obama take a “serious fact-finding trip” to Iraq. Kerry then charged McCain’s proposed foreign policy as a plan that would neither get the U.S. out of Iraq nor would it strengthen the country. Instead, it would continue the Bush presidency’s failed policy for another four years, Kerry argued.

...

Kerry said McCain had made inaccurate statements about a whole series of issues concerning Iraq and pointed to congressional testimony from top military leaders who have said the military was overextended in that country and that current troop levels there were unsustainable.

“It’s very disturbing to have John McCain continually raise questions about what he knows and what he bases is judgments on,” Kerry said. “If you don’t know the numbers of troops, it’s very difficult to make a judgment about whether or not you’re overextended. It’s also very difficult to have an understanding as a citizen about what levels of troops he’s gonna keep there, because if he thinks 150,000 is pre-surge, and that’s where he’s gonna stay. That’s a deeply overextended military, and it raises serious questions about his comprehension of this challenge.”

He then listed other areas where he felt McCain had gotten it wrong, including McCain’s flub confusing Shiites and Sunnis and his publicized trip to an Iraqi market where he proclaimed the market to be safe -- despite the fact that the area was under heavy military protection at the time. (Sniper fire rang out a day later, merchants said the area was not safe and a U.S. military official -- quoted in the Washington Post -- described "McCain's comments about Baghdad's safety as 'a bit of hyperbole.'"

McCain campaign spokesman Tucker Bounds issued the following statement in response to the call: “Clearly John Kerry and Barack Obama have very little understanding of troop levels, but considering Barack Obama hasn’t been to Iraq in 873 days and has never had a one on one meeting with General Petraeus, it isn’t a surprise to anyone that he demonstrates weak leadership.

I bolded the part Kerry said about Iraq, because it's what I've been saying the last two days!! How did he read my mind? :) I also think Obama should go to Iraq on his own, low key; looks like that's what Kerry's thinking is as well. I also got a kick out of the last part where I see now John Kerry has "little understanding of troops levels". Um, he's got 23+ years in the Senate and third ranking on the SFRC. John McCain can take his condescending talking points and SHOVE IT (to quote a great lady)!

Edit: do they release the audio of the full conference call anywhere? Clearly, it is designed for the public, and they put snippets on the USA Today site. Just wondering if it's available, because I would love to hear it.

[TayTay]

6. Wow, thanks for this thread

Wow, this was a great day for all these Dems. It must have been fun to take on McCain and what he is saying on the merits.

Thanks Mass and Beachmom for these wonderful updates!

[beachmom]

9. I have to say it: I am in Google Heaven tonight.

I mean, it is incredible. Search "John Kerry" in Google News:

http://news.google.com/news

One article after another with the underlying theme: John Kerry kicking ass and taking names! Then he hands off the ball to Obama who scores the touchdown!! McCain dithering on about verb tenses ....

[globalvillage]

7. I want to hear it too!

I've been looking for the full audio and can't find it.

:-(

[beachmom]

8. Oooh -- I think I hit gold. The TPM site has audio:

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/05/obama_camp_mccains_petraeus_at.php

I am not sure it's all of it, but it's quite a bit. I am listening now.

[beachmom]

11. Yep, it captures all of what Kerry said. He was fantastic, and did a great job

answering questions, especially since he is so great talking about foreign policy matters. I recommend everyone check it out.

[Inuca]

14. Agree that he should go to Iraq

and a few other places. No circus, to the extent possible, but he should IMHO take a few people along, and I have at least one in mind, much as I dislike these trips to dangerous places, especially after that forced landing episode.

[JI7]

12. Kerry knows McCain

i think he is enjoying all of this. McCain just isn't up to Kerry's level when it comes to debating the issues.

[Inuca]

13. Based on what I heard recently

McCain does not even belong in the same sentence as Kerry when it comes to debating. As beachmom has said, his shallowness, viciousness, and arrogant condescension are... well, almost shocking to me I must say. I wonder how much of it is a strategic decision, demean and ridicule the inexperienced one (and pay no attention to how well that worked for Clinton), and how much it is just that Obama gets under his skin and irritates him to no end. Anybody remembers that episode in early 07, I think it was in relation to the ethics bill, when McC and BO had a spat and old McNasty really blew a fuse? Looking forward to the debates, I hope they will have a whole bunch of them :evilgrin: