I need an outside perspective on an issue I'm having.

[varkam]

I apologize in advance, because this is going to be a long one.

I just graduated from the University of Kentucky with my BA after four years, and will be going to Eastern Kentucky University in the fall to pursue my MS. Sounds all well and good, right? It should be, but somehow it isn't.

I am a student of psychology. I love it. It's my baby. If, for some completely absurd reason, I couldn't study psychology then I don't know what I would do with the rest of my life. I've studied it since my junior year of high school and immediately declared it as a major my freshman year of college without ever having any doubts whatsoever since then. I say all this to let you know that the problem that I'm having isn't about having second thoughts about my course of study.

It's not about graduate school either. This is what I want. This is what I've wanted for the past three years. The three weeks I waited to hear back on my applications were some of the longest of my life. I spent entirely too much time and money on the process, and other areas of my life suffered for it. That was fine with me. In all honesty, I'm not sure I can hack it in graduate school. It's not my motivation that I question, but my abilities. But I digress...

I think it might have something to do with the MS, and the school. I always used to hate those stuffy intellectuals who were hung up on where you went to school and what degrees you have - I think I'm turning into one. My father has always tried to instill in my a respect for education and knowledge. For that I am very grateful. He has also always told me that, should I go to graduate school, I need to get my PhD - as it is getting harder and harder to cut it with a MS. Maybe it's that. Maybe it's that the V+Q requirement on the GRE to get into EKU is 750 (which, for those who don't know, is fairly low). Maybe it's that the program at EKU, while superior in clinical training, is not an empirically rigorous research program (and PhD programs poo-poo it for that reason).

Another possibility is this: I just made the wrong choice, and somewhere deep down, I know it. I could have gone to the University of Alabama at Tuscaloosa for my PhD in clinical psych. They have an excellent program and campus there, all the professors and graduate students are friendly and get along, and I was extended an offer. Out of the seven schools I applied to, UAT and EKU were the only two to extend offers. Seems pretty simple, right? PhD program makes you an offer, you take it over the MS program. Well, that's what I would've thought to. I turned them down because the offer that was extended was to work with a different professor who, to make a long story short, was doing research I was not even remotely interested in. I didn't want to take the offer, found out I hated what I was doing, then wash out. I could only imagine how difficult it would be to get into another program after that. The problem, however, is that in turning UAT down, I think I burned bridges with the professor I really wanted to work with. He told me that I shouldn't go to EKU, that I should wait and reapply.

I had so many choices to make. Go to UAT and do research I hate anyway? Was it a funding issue? Was that why I was rejected? Take a year off and reapply? What if I don't get in at that point? The next year? Go to EKU? Poo-poo. What if I can't get into a PhD program when I'm done? What if I can't find a job? etc. etc.

I would've liked to have taken a year off, I think. Unfortunately, I had already accepted EKUs offer by the time I heard from UAT - the reason why is fairly long, but I'll just say that I didn't want to burn bridges at EKU either in case I didn't get into UAT.

So here I am now. I'm registered for classes at EKU. I'm looking at buying books (850 dollars for one semester?!). And I'm constantly second guessing myself. I'm alternating between facing a less desirable future with optimism and hating myself. Everyone I talked to said I should go with UAT. All my professors. My friends. My parents. Everyone. And if the past me would have known that the future me was going to turn down an offer from a PhD program for a MS program, the past me would have beaten the shit out of the future me. Maybe it's the sheer irony that's getting to me. Maybe I'm just not cutting myself enough slack.

I don't mean to be pedantic here. I don't mean to try and grab attention by saying "Look at me! I'm going to graduate school!". I'm not looking for a pat on the head. I really don't know what the correct perspective is to take here, and it's starting to get to me. Should I rightfully be kicking myself? Should I be grateful I got in somewhere? Am I going to die poor and alone? Am I just being silly?

Parts of my want to think I am. The whole reason I got into psychology in the first place was to try to help people. Period. I wanted to be able to work the magic that so many before me have - to be able to reach inside the psyche of someone who is suffering and alleviate it. People who were able to do that, to me, seemed incredible - like "You didn't even lay a hand on them, and you made them feel better!" EKU will be able to train me how to do that (although training only goes so far), so shouldn't I just be happy?

And on a related note: I'm going to have "clients" in the fall! Jesus H. Tapdancing Christ! People are going to entrust their mental health to me!? That is truly a terrifying thought.

[NMMNG]

1. If what you want to do is work with people,

it sounds like you're on the right track at EKU. If they have top-notch clinical training, then that seems to be the place to go.

I don't mean to be pedantic here. I don't mean to try and grab attention by saying "Look at me! I'm going to graduate school!". I'm not looking for a pat on the head. I really don't know what the correct perspective is to take here, and it's starting to get to me. Should I rightfully be kicking myself? Should I be grateful I got in somewhere? Am I going to die poor and alone? Am I just being silly?

You're not being silly. Particularly in today's world your education and expertise can greatly affect your chances of getting a good job and making a decent living. So many jobs are being outsourced, cut, revamped and whatnot. It's only natural to second guess your choices unless you're already set for life, which few of us are. I've been second guessing myself for many years.


The whole reason I got into psychology in the first place was to try to help people. Period. I wanted to be able to work the magic that so many before me have - to be able to reach inside the psyche of someone who is suffering and alleviate it.

That's the reason I majored in Psychology and ended up working in Human Services, which I've done for nearly 19 years now. I saw so much suffering in the world and wanted to be a part of the remedy for it. I wanted to create positive changes in peoples' lives, even if those changes were only on a small scale.


Best wishes on your MS! :thumbsup:

[Random_Australian]

2. Parts and pieces.

I just need a little more info - What are the chances of getting a job as a clinical psychologist with each one?

Anyway, from what I can make out of what you are saying, I have a few bits of advice - though, as always, read through and only use the ones that you decide would work for you, in other words, I am putting forward some ideas.

First: You, are alive, so you will always have the chance to be happy. (that is always the first thing I say, it is a lot truer than it appears)

Try setting small goals, like "I want to help people" (as a psychologist) - remember that it is this in it of itself that is important, you merely wish to have the qualifications to do so, or in other words, the degree is not the really important bit. This also helps you focus on the present.

While remaining enthusiastic (this is a difficult line to walk) avoid if you can the attachments that would make not getting this something you could not bear to lose, in other words, don't let it cost you too much, however this is difficult to do, and the line is not really intuitive; you are to become dedicated enough that it would cost you a lot to lose, of course, but not so much that you cannot live without it. A hobby is always a useful distraction - there are more out there than you think.

Lastly, sometimes people make bad decisions - though the outcome is unpleasant, and while in fact the day may be unpleasant, there are always always ways to get through it.

Ok, that is that for now. More later perhaps.

[varkam]

4. Well...

my chance at becoming a clinical psychologist with a MS is exactly 0 (it's a definitional issue, in order to be called a "psychologist", one needs a PhD). As far as actually doing clinical work, I think it would be easier to secure a position with a PhD i.e. more doors would open for me.

But I guess you're right. At least I am alive and am continuing my education. I'll just try to deal with the bad days if and when they come. Thanks

[Random_Australian]

5. Well, my favourite thing in the world is to help others, so thanks for

your thanks. Anytime man. Any more problems, just post in the helpersrealm that is the DU MHSG.

(And people into psych are pretty welcome here)

[mrgorth]

3. If you want

you could always call UAT and see if you can still accept their offer. If they say no than at least you can say you tried and you were clearly "meant" to go to EKU. Best wishes in any case.

[bloom]

6. Is it possible

to take your 2 years at EKU and THEN go to UAT (or some other place)?


My son is in a grad program (different field) and I thought it was for the duration of his PhD - and I was surprised that after 2 years he was looking into going to a different school and that other people were switching around in schools, re-evaluating who they would be working with - advisor wise, etc.

It's important to go where you can do the research that you want to do.

[varkam]

7. It is possible.

I think that's probably the best path for me to take. The downside is, of course, more time and money is needed.

But doing the research you want is important, that's for sure. That's the #1 piece of advice I got from graduate students when I was applying. And who knows, maybe I'll broaden my interests a little bit at EKU (as it stands right now, my research interests are pretty specialized in behavioral sleep medicine).

Thanks

[TallahasseeGrannie]

8. Gosh

The gang's all here! I decided to check out this group because of some dysthymia I've been having and look who I found!?

Now, onto your issue. Every decent clinician I have worked with has been an MS person. I have a psychiatrist for meds but the real people folks were either nurse practitioners or LCSWs or MS psychologists. I have never seen a PhD psychologist. I work with some at work (school) and they are all testers and diagnosticians. BORING.

I think you are making the right choice is you like one-on-one. And it is a terrifying thought. Because as a mental health patient I can tell you that we become very, very dependent upon our shrinks! It is a very special relationship...like a marriage. Only thing is that YOU, the practitioner, are "married" to all sorts of folks while each one of US think we're the only one in your life!

[varkam]

9. It isn't scary...

because I think people will become too attached to me (who knows, maybe when I start doing it that will be my biggest fear). Right now I just hope I'm good enough. The pessimistic part of who I am feels like I'm going to go, find out I suck at helping people, then have to completely retool my career plans. The last part isn't what scares me, but I just don't want to suck at helping people--it's what I want to do with my life. It's what I've wanted to do since I was 15 or 16 or so.

I think I probably need to stop worrying about what's going to happen after EKU and start worrying about EKU itself. I'm sure it's going to be hard enough for me to make it through without second guessing myself at the same time.

On a side note, I'm sorry to hear about your dysthymia. If you're looking for support then this is a good place to find it. And us R/T folks tend to take off the horns and hang up the pitchfork when we come here :)

[TallahasseeGrannie]

10. I don't think you will suck.

If you enjoy talking to people and listening, and if you are willing to apply the tools you learn (which sometimes mean you need to be assertive and even aggressive) and also willing to set boundaries, you will do fine.

I have the empathy to be a counselor, but no boundaries. I'd be putting people up in my guest room and giving them money.

Thanks for your concern regarding my pesky problem. I have had Major D and this is NOTHING in comparision but it is annoying and rather paralyzing at times. One reason I hang out on DU so much is I have little energy to do anything else sometimes. At least I can keep my brain occupied.

I'm thinking of buying some Sam e and wonder if anyone has any track record with it. I guess to get an answer to that I'll need to start a new post.

Anyway, nice to find friendly faces.

[varkam]

11. I've had a bit of experience..

with dysthymia myself. I don't think I've ever had a MDE, as I've always been able to function. In some ways, I think, dysthymia can be worse (though I'm obviously not in a position to compare and contrast the two from experience). It's just that dysthymia lasts so damn long, and eventually it can really start to drag you down. It's just basically a long, low-grade depression. At least that's been my experience.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

12. I've had little D, as I call it,

since my teenage years. I had one really major big D episode that knocked me on my butt for weeks and I had to take time off work. I recovered at home with a lot of good intervention, medical and talk. Much of it was PTSD from my involvement in a murder at my school. I mean I was involved..I was there, hiding my kids. Scary stuff, left me with panic attacks that rolled right into big D.

Since then, Flux. keeps it at bay usually but when I have change of schedule, like a lot of free time, I get melancholy and I have to stay on top of it. Today, of all things, I put on my bathing suit and went and sat in a six foot pool with my two little grandchildren. I forgot that Florida is so lovely in the summer..when you are in two feet of water. I usually hide inside.

[varkam]

13. Personally

I can't stand the heat. I live in Kentucky and the mixture of mugginess and heat is just about my upper limit. I've been to Florida in the summer a few times and I thought I was going to melt. But sitting in a pool with grandkids sounds nice though.

Shifting gears, I can't imagine what that event at school must of been like. It sounds like you did all the right things though by looking after the safety of your students first. I think think something like that would knock around anyone's psyche a little bit.

[marions ghost]

14. so how's it going varkam?

I think you subconsciously chose correctly, for you, at this time in your career. I understand your angst at making a wrong decision, but nothing in life is guaranteed. Have faith in yourself. Try not to project beyond this semester right now. Just do your best. The thing that impresses me about reading this post about you is your clear analysis of your situation and ability to communicate. You will be successful regardless of your exact path. It may feel at this point that this is a life or death decision, and that indicates how seriously you take it, but it's not actually the truth. You have more opportunities than you may realize. Your experience at EKU will give you the chance to know what you really want and where you should be going at the end of it. Relax, give it all you've got in this situation and validate your own (perhaps very wise) choice. You will still be very eligible for a good PhD program if you do well.

How am I doing counselling you as an amateur psychologist? At one time I wanted to do what you are doing but found myself on another path which is better for me. However I know how it works in academia and how hard it is to balance the more theoretical research interests with the constraints of time and money. But --bottom line--you're in an excellent field for these times, where more and more people are exhibiting stress and losing their mental stability for all kinds of reasons. As the world gets more insane, you will be crucial in helping others maintain their sanity, whether directly as in clinical practice or more indirectly in research. Mantra for you: "My skills are vitally needed, therefore OF COURSE I will always have a job."

One thing you could benefit from meditating on (and it might help others in your counselling practice)is to give yourself the Gift of Time. Many of the stresses of today that you will encounter come from these feelings of desperation and second-guessing, of not making the "right" decisions, instead of looking at every waking moment as an opportunity for further discovery. Flexibility is going to be the key to coping in the turbulent future.

Good luck :)

[varkam]

15. Thank you for your very kind words.

I very much appreciate your response and compliments - though I feel some are definitely not deserved :). I've kind of come to the conlcusion that I need to stop worrying about the next step and start worrying about this one. What will be will be, and I'm just going to make sure I have my head in the right place so that I can work my hardest and give my clients the best I have to offer. It's an existential trap that I had fallen into - living for tomorrow. I figured, once I get a PhD, then I can start to live my life. Problem is, that my life is in the here and now. It's not 6 or 7 years off. Some amount of planning is of course required, but I need to make sure not to let that get in the way of things I'm doing now. So, in short, I think your advice about the gift of time is well taken :)

It is paradoxical, in a sense, that my success will be based upon how many people need help with mental illness and adjustment issues. The more people who need help, the better off I will be. That thought makes me feel a bit dirty, but at the same time I realise that I want to help people - not harm them.

Thank you again for your kind words :)