I love you feminists but I think I may just have to go elsewhere for my

[efhmc]

political postings. DU and I are in counseling and I see divorce on the horizon. There are way too many people here that do not even begin to see how prejudice they are against women and who use 2 bit biased arguments to back up whatever they see as counterpoints to female issues. They are mostly so scared that some part of their male prowess will be diminished if we gain equality that they howl everytime some issue that pertains to women becomes mainstream. I need a forum that is about and for women and except for this part of DU, this one is not it.

[Eloriel]

1. Aw, shit. Yours is the 2nd "I quit" message I've seen today.

The other one was via PM.

I can't tell you what to do, but ... well, as I see it, our job isn't to find solace and comfort at DU for its pro-woman positions, but to EDUCATE the damn fools.

Maybe it's just me. I take GREAT comfort and pleasure fromt he fact that literally after years, Admin made "bitch" and "whore" off limits in most cases. I take GREAT pride and pleasure in the fact that the mods are locking more threads than they used to AND deleting more sexist posts than they used to. I think this too is due to Admin's influence. It heartens me.

I quit donating to DU some time ago because of the recalcitrant sexism here which DU ALLOWED (if not encouraged). (I subsequently made a small donation to be able to participate in the Groups.) Now I'm considering trying to make a small donation monthly, as I'd originally planned to do, because I am so PLEASED with the improvement in moderation on sexism issues.

And if you haven't seen it, please check out Skinner's response in this thread:
What in the hell? This is what DU is supporting?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4199240&mesg_id=4199240

I told him I was going to make a donation "to celebrate" that decision.

At the same time, I certainly see what seems like an increase in the sexism, so to a very large extent it feels like a wash, especially lately. :-(

There are times when I feel so hit-in-the-gut, so debilitated by all of it that I have to leave all of DU for a while.

But it's also been heartening, and strengthening, for me to feel that I have good support in DU's feminist community, women who will join in with their superb articulation, if not on every thread, then at least on some. It makes a huge difference to me, AND to my own ability to "fight" in the face of so much ugliness, so much hate, so much craven stupidity and self-serving arrogance.

So while I understand how you feel, I really would hate to see you leave entirely. Your presence and participation are NEEDED here.

[VelmaD]

2. I'm pretty sure the increase in sexist posts and the improved moderating..

are related. It's the inevitable backlash to women gaining a little more respect and power. Happens every time.

[Hello_Kitty]

3. I'm so sorry efhmc

I've seen some really good members leave due to this, people whose posts I learned a lot from. Posts that made me think and made me look stuff up to expand my knowledge.


Funny how none of the anti-feminist posts ever have that effect on me...

[BlueIris]

4. Yeah, these are rough water for me and DU, as well.

And I'm not sure counseling will fill it as the insane half of the contributors on this website seem to have a collective learning disability when it comes to recognizing their own grotesque sexism (or worse). I'm not gone yet, but I may have to start seeing other people.

[mogster]

5. Don't go elsewhere.. or go, but stay here too

If the sexism is here, this is where to be?

I was in counseling with the DU too a month back, I just couldn't stand seeing Andy Stephenson being hounded around here anymore. This place suddenly seemed evil. But I stayed on, and now I've simmered down enough to be civil in debates again.
Feminism and equal opportunities are vital parts of a democracy, and I was very relieved when this forum was started at Democratic Underground :-)

It is just started, give it some time to develop. Many men need to get reminded and adjusted to what feminism is - there are a lot of misconceptions. Many women too, for that matter.
A presence of a feminist group here will probably help that happen, over time.

[undergroundpanther]

6. well the way to a man's heart

is through his stomach, and up through his diaphram..Grrrrr.

And I am well aware there are 50 other ways and more to kill a lover if you are a sadistic sociopath bully piece of shit..

That T shirt pissed me off.
I saw the I have nice boobs shirt advertised there on the front page,and it offended. Ever see a guy wearing a shirt that says I have a nice fat wallet and a nice fat ass? Didn't think so.

Maybe we need to ask DU if they think it's OK to advertise MALE bashing shirts,because they already sell ones advocating the murdering of women as if it's "love" as In The way to A woman's heart..
See what they say.Money IS the root of all evil especially when the need for money makes you sell out your principals.

[mogster]

7. Well, it ain't there anymore

If this group hadn't been, several thousand DU'ers would be subject to that hidden message sent every time they reloaded the page ;-)

[Heddi]

11. Hey woman

if I wanted to hear what you had to say, I'd take my cock out of your mouth.

Now THAT"s progressive. And I love how the defenders of "free speech under all circumstances" feel that US trying to get a company that ADVERTISES TSHIRTS LIKE THAT is akin to censorship.

Because, I mean, seriously. THe men on DU are basically saying "Honey, if I cared what you had to say, i'd take my cock out of your mouth" That's the sentiment around here. THAT t-shirt, I think, summed up for SO many men on DU how they feel about us, and our issues, our concerns, our offense.

They don't care what we have to say. We're just bitches and whores slammin' Cadillac doors (some rap song from long ago(

[lukasahero]

8. Please reconsider

I had a similar conversation with Eloriel a little over a week ago and would like to share some of her wisdom with you. (I really hope she doesn't mind - she just said it in a way I could not do justice.)

"I think that part of our mission in life as feminists and progressives/liberals (whatever you call yourself) is to take a principled stand and speak up for our beliefs, and especially for women, and to do it right here at DU -- I can think of no better place for us "armchair activists" than DU. Will we change any minds? Somehow we changed Admin's minds about "whore" and "bitch" -- and that was quite an accomplishment. There was a time Skinner was absolutely ADAMANT about allowing those words to be used.

...the last thing (we) need to do is let OTHERS drive (us) away -- that's precisely what some of them want. Precisely!!! what they want.

There's an old saying that goes something like this:

First a group FORMS
then STORMS
then NORMS
then PERFORMS.

Every group of any type goes thru that and goes thru it repeatedly when there are any personnel or other significant changes.

Participate to the extent and exactly how (and how often) you want, but don't leave."

So please, don't leave, don't give up. Take a break if you must (I did and am in much better mental health as a result!) but come back when you're feeling rested. I really believe what we're seeing here is a backlash due to this darn group (who knew?) It will subside. The "orms" will get past step 2 someday, I hope, maybe... :)

[Solly Mack]

9. Please don't go.

Please

[Heddi]

10. Please don't go---that's what THEY want you (and us) to do

See, if you go away, that's one less voice.

Then another goes away. Then another.

Then there's silence.

THAT is what they want.

To them, we're harpies. nags. b*tches. We look for things to get offended at. We SEEK OUT offense. We get people banned. We whine. We get threads locked and comments deleted.

We call them on their sexist shit. We don't let it go unnoticed.

If you go, that's giving in to them.

I know how you feel. It saddens my heart every day when I come on and first it's Abortion, and we should just give it up. Then it's contraceptives and we shouldn't be so worried about that, then it's "If I wanted to hear what you had to say I'd take my cock out of your mouth" T-shirts and how it's free expression and we're just getting all riled up for nothing.

It makes me sad and hurt and marginalized.

They want us to go away. That's why they do the shit again and again and again. They want us to get fed up, stop donating, stop visiting, and then once and for all, DU can be the Boyz Klub where they can talk about women for the objects of sexual pleasure we are. We're property. How many goats am *I* worth, if Chelsea Clinton is worth 20...maybe 5? Fewer since i'm fat, even fewer since I've got no children?

Please don't go. PLEASE don't go. We need you, we need ALL of us more than ever.

I will NOT let them win. Let THEIR asses get tired of our 'nagging' and "harping" and "Bitching and Moaning". Let THEM go to another website where misogyny and hatred and bigotry are tolerated. Not here. They will NOT drive ME away. Fuck that shit.