Question for those with Bush-supporter friends, families ...

[NanceGreggs]

There has been a question on my mind for a while now, and I don't have anyone to ask. So (DUH!!!) it finally occurs to me that I can ask my fellow DUers!

I live in Toronto, and all of my friends here are American Dems or liberal Canadians. My family members have always been rabid Democrats. So I have no contact with Bush-supporters, and thus no one to pose this question to.

I know many of you speak about family members, neighbours, etc. who still support Bush, so this topic may have come up.

My question is this: Hard-core Bush supporters invariably see him as a kind-hearted, Christian man, who promotes Christian values at all times. How do they reconcile the idea of torture, secret prisons, rendition, etc. with their concept of a Christian man?

I'm assuming there are only two avenues here; (a) they think only hard-core proven terrorists are being tortured, or (b) they think the 'torture' stories are a left-wing rumour meant to undermine their president.

Please enlighten me - I'm really curious.

[niyad]

1. just picture the child with fingers in the ears, singing "la lal la laal"

this, of course, is just a guess, since I have no family, and none of my friends are supporters of this bunch of thugs.

[Brigid]

2. Bush supporters

Most seem to think both: The torture stories are exaggerated or made up, and if it happens, it's only to the worst of the worst. It's not an issue most Bush supporters are comfortable talking about.

[Lars39]

3. a. & the end justifies the means in their minds.

Of course, they also believe in the 'smiting' God, not the merciful God.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

4. how dare you

insinuate that that wonderful gawd-fearing man who loves amerika is doing anything besides protecting our freedoms from the terrorists who want to come over here and kill us all just because we want our oil that they happen to be living on top of!!

:sarcasm:

[leftofthedial]

5. religiously insane (whether evangelicals or neocons)

are trained to ignore cognitive dissonance

otherwise, their heads would explode

[patsimae]

6. Most of my friends/relatives are freepers

There is no appealing to logic or reason with them. They have swallowed the Koolaid,and their minds are closed to any rational discussion of the issues. Otherwise they are lovely people, and we really don't want to get into one sided arguments with them. Many of them pay only superficial attention to the news, and are only vaguely aware of Guantanamo and the secret CIA prisons,if at all.

The majority of these people are educated, and it just makes me wonder about the value of a college education which is supposed to supply you with "critical thinking skills" but perhaps not compassion.

[LibDemAlways]

7. They don't care that people are being tortured. They

also don't care that people are dying every day in Iraq. It doesn't affect them personally. Republicans in general lack a social conscience. They care about their own immediate family, but have no sense of compassion, care, or concern for others. It's all about them. "I've got mine, screw you" is the motto they live by.

[Appalachian_American]

9. Ditto to Libdem's response.

[global1]

10. I Couldn't Have Said It Better - You're Right - If It Doesn't Affect Them.

personally - they don't care. They get their news from Fox (which is truely in the henhouse) and when you finally think you've cornered them - they say all politicians are alike and that's their out. I purchase copies of F911 for a couple of my Repug friends to watch. They didn't even take them out of the box. They won't even entertain another perspective on their man.

[anitar1]

8. I haven't associated with the dark side for almost 5 years.

Doubt that I ever will again, and that includes a few relatives.One cannot talk with these people,and I haven't the time for it.So can't help you, except they must think like * does. Some I used to know were prejudiced about race ect.

[pansypoo53219]

11. my brother is a gullible returd

my mom thinks georgie saves babies. and when i told her that abortion was up under the fucktard, she ignored it. and gosh darnit, brown babies in iWaq don't count i guess.

[Neil Lisst]

12. it's engrained, and they're programmed to accept capital punishment & war

as acceptable

religion ain't gotta make no sense, Nance!!

[NanceGreggs]

13. I realize that religion doesn't make sense to a lot of people ...

... but when you have been raised to believe in certain things, and then someone who you believe stands for those things does something completely contrary to those beliefs, how do you reconcile that? That is my dilemma is understanding this phenomemon.

I know that the Falwell et al followers are mindless sheep, easily led; that's obvious. But not all Bush supporters are 'Fundies'; some of them are good Christian people who were misled into thinking Bush was one of their own. How do THEY deal with this?

I think one of the posters above is probably closest to the truth of the matter. They spoke about their Republican family members who don't really pay attention to the news about Gitmo, etc. People are not 'going along' with this idea so much as they are completely ignorant of it.

"In spite of it all, I still believe that man is good at heart." Anne Frank wrote that while in hiding in an attic, knowing what was going on in the world around her, and ironically wrote it just weeks before she and her family were sent to live (and eventually die) in the most horrific conditions imaginable.

If SHE could maintain her faith in her fellow human beings, I suppose I can, too.

This too shall pass.

[Neil Lisst]

15. I was raised in such an environment, and reading Jesus eventually

caused me to question church dogma, and it's lack of commitment to certain things Jesus spoke of

So, it's possible people think their way out.

[CoffeeCat]

14. I come from a long line of conservative psychos...

...and I can tell you this.

Bushbots have their reasons for supporting this pResident.

Some arch-conservative, big-business, elitist, rich types---really could care less that Junior
tortures, murders, has secret prisons or erodes our civil rights. WTF do they care, as long as they get their tax cuts and their stock portfolios explode. They serious could care less. Those kinds of issues deal with compassion, emotion and empathy--and who cares about those things when you're priorities are your house on the golf course and your Porsche in the garage. They wouldn't care if Junior invaded Cleveland--as long as the capital gains tax was cut further.

There are other conservatives who are religious zealots. They hold extremely ridid beliefs and before Junior, they were seen as wacky freaks. Before Junior (and the Christian Coalition)--people who rabidly judge others and hate others who are not EXACTLY like them--were forced to keep their pathology a secret. Junior empowers these people. No longer do they hide in their houses--and keep their bigotry, hate and hypocrisy quiet. They're out sauntering in the streets--protesting Terri Schiavo's husband and dragging Jesus statues on their trailer hitches. These people--for the first time in their lives--are allowed to wear their sickness on the sleeves and celebrate it. These people WON'T HEAR ONE WORD about how Junior is a bad person, or that he made a bad decision or that we shouldn't be in Iraq. These nimrods believe whatever he says. Because if they question ANYTHING he does or says, then they're forced to question themselves. It's too comfortable in their denial cloud, and so they go along with EVERYTHING. These people, by the way--are completely incurable.

Believe me--I know people like this. I grew up in bizarroramma world with these types. They won't change anytime soon, and they probably comprise about 20 percent of the population.

BTW--I cut myself off from most of these family members, because they are all so gravely dysfunctional. Their political and religious wackiness was just one offshoot of their mental illness. Most of them are very sick people. If I wrote a book about 1/10th of what I experienced with them--no one would believe it.

[NanceGreggs]

16. I appreciate your comments, and I don't disagree ...

I know where the conservatives are coming from, and yes, you're certainly right about the sicko religious fringe feeling free to come out in the open of late as being socially acceptable.

But I'm not talking about those people. I'm talking about hard-working Americans who have Christian beliefs -- not wealthy conservatives, not fundies. Just regular people who traditionally vote Republican, and took Bush at face value as a 'good Christian man' before he started proving himself to be otherwise.

And I may get flamed for it (as I have in the past), but I don't accept for a second that ALL Republicans are evil, religiously whacked-out, money-grubbing opportunists.

I don't doubt that many of those former Bush-supporters who are now part of the 60% disapproval ratings have changed their minds about this administration due to the torture issue. I am just curious as to those who haven't, and how they reconcile the actions of this president with their own long-held beliefs.

[driver8]

17. Most shrub supporters that I know feel that the liberal press is to blame.

Everything printed about little lord pissy pants is a lie and driven by a strong hatred for junior. Most of them feel that shrubby is keeping us safe from terrorists and that is all that matters.