How NOT to save gas...

[Roland99]

In the car-rider pickup line at my daughter's school today. I counted the vehicles in front of me as I entered the lot and the vehicles behind me as I left.

Out of 45 vehicles, 12 were cars. 33 were SUVs/Minivans.

<rolling eyes>

The kicker? Most of them were idling. It sprinkled for a few min. so I rolled up my windows and turned on the fan but my engine was off the whole time I was in line (over 20 min.)

[SmokingJacket]

1. If all those kids took the bus, it sure would save gas. nt

[crizzo5137]

5. if all those kids walked it would sure curb childhood obesity

[CAcyclist]

82. Correct. My parents refused to drive us to school

and we all grew up thin and stayed that way. We either walked or rode our bikes to school.

[teknomanzer]

84. When I was a kid we walked to school uphill...

both ways... in the snow... with 10 foot drifts, even. Well, not really. But I always wanted to say that to someone.

[ny_liberal]

87. Check this out

[Roland99]

88. And that's not a Photochop??

Ooof

[CAcyclist]

92. We walked to school in the blinding fog - well -except that

we had "fog days" and if it was too foggy, we got out of school or school was delayed until 11 am.

[Selatius]

2. Do you think most of those SUVs are used for business/industrial purposes?

Like, for instance, hauling electrical equipment or tools or other things a business often needs? Or do you think they are mostly used to haul groceries and kids to soccer practice instead?

[Roland99]

3. Neither...used to look good in line.

[burythehatchet]

4. Do you have idea

how much space 4 soccer balls occupy?

[valerief]

6. Why do people think it's cool to drive a short bus? n/t

[uncle ray]

14. i'd guess cause they rode one when they were younger.

[Tulum_Moon]

73. Are you refering to special needs children???

Just asking.:shrug:

[patrice]

7. There is enough traffic between K.C. and Lawrence, Ks. to support Mass

Transit - if we were bright enough to invest in it.

Which apparently we aren't.

We're trapped!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

33. We don't have transit because the Bushies are busy

"liberating" a country that didn't ask for our "help," which requires massive amounts of fuel for transporting military vehicles to it and somewhat less massive amounts of fuel for operating them, and spending money on planes, each of which costs as much as a light rail line.

With people and with countries, "affording" is often a matter of spending priorities rather than actual amount of cash on hand.

[patrice]

75. It IS all about priorities and balance.

BushCo is killing Amtrak because their priorities are elsewhere.

[joeunderdog]

8. FWIW, it takes 15 min's of feul to start an engine. nt

[athena]

12. Wrong. It's 10 seconds.

From http://maine.sierraclub.org/cap_join.htm :

Over 10 seconds of idling uses more fuel than restarting the engine. Idling a medium-duty vehicle for even 5 minutes a day wastes more than 13 gallons of gas a year. Just by turning your key you can save money.

And from http://energysolutionsalberta.com/default.asp?V_DOC_ID=932 :

Drivers can reduce idling by not warming up their cars for long periods and by turning off their engines while picking up kids at school or waiting in a drive-through lane. Idling for just 10 seconds uses more fuel than restarting an engine and actually causes more engine wear. As well, modern fuel-injection vehicles warm up faster by being driven, rather than idling.

Also see:
http://www.epa.gov/SmartwayLogistics/idle-questions.htm#turnoff
http://www.terrapass.com/terrablog/posts/000158.html
http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/communities-government/transportation/municipal-communities/articles/idling-quiz.cfm?attr=28

[TahitiNut]

21. Yep. I'd do it at many stop lights, but legally that's 'parking'

... and it can 'earn' a ticket. 1959. I had a Driver Training instructor that would 'entrap' students with such things. His teaching system was to hand out tickets - it lowered grades and too many caused failure. When you're 16 and it's a "rite of passage," it was amazing how studious we got.

[uppityperson]

24. thanks for the times, I'd heard 5 minutes, 1 minute, etc

[misanthrope]

28. I agree about...

...the idling at lights and such, but I still have to warm-up my air-cooled '73 Beetle or it will play havoc on the engine, especially in the winter.

[Atman]

38. Question: How many MPG does your car get while idling?

ZERO. You're not moving at all, so you're just wasting fuel when you sit in an idling car.

Have you noticed that UPS and FEDEX trucks turn of the ignition EVERY TIME they stop? I get fairly regular deliveries to my house, as do a couple of other people on my street who apparently work from home, or do too much online shopping. The UPS guy will pull up in front of the house two doors down and turn off his engine to drop off a package at the door (UPS never waits for signatures anymore), then restart, drive across the street, and turn it off again.

Someone somewhere must have done the math when you figure out how much time the trucks would otherwise be idling.

[0007]

52. I didn't know that. I'm gonna start paying attention

[One_Life_To_Give]

43. Usually less than 10 sec

When the motor is first started from cold temperatures. What many of us "Older" people will remember as using the choke. The the engine will use a little bit more gas. But if the engines all up to operating temperature then it won't burn any additional gas. And every second it is turned off saves a seconds worth of fuel. Just as it does in the Hybrid cars.

[Roland99]

63. Lifting your foot off the gas going down a hill or approaching a light

will shut off the fuel injectors, too, saving even more gas.

[Atman]

65. Driving backwards will actuall add gas to your tank!

Oh, no...wait a minute.

;)

[Roland99]

67. Pffffbbbbttttt

:spank:



:D


It *is* true about letting off the gas. At least for newer cars. If you have a trip display that shows mileage, reset it before you do it and watch the mileage jump to infinity or 99 or whatever the max display value is.

[One_Life_To_Give]

68. Fuel/Air mix needs to be constant

The fuel/air mix needs to be constant for the Three Way catalytic converter to work properly. What you are seeing is the motor at idle while the vehicle still has significant motion.

edit typing

[Roland99]

70. There's no fuel/air mix to worry about when no fuel is being injected

http://fordfuelinjection.com/?p=64

Deceleration
The vehicle is moving and you lift your foot off the accelerator. EEC sense’s the TPS go to closed and VSS signal slow. This presents a few problems that are easily overcome. First we have to prevent stalling; this is why the IAB has been open, just in case the throttle snaps shut. After throttle closure the Throttle Air Bypass closes slowly closes. Then it controls idle as we reach a stop and move back into warm idle strategy. We are always thinking of emissions and burning fuel as we decelerate is a big waste. EEC turns the injectors completely off when RPM is over 1500 and the engine is over 140°F. Injectors begin operating under 1500RPM or if you hit the skinny pedal. If you don’t run a VSS you can run the risk of stalling when slowing down from over 1500RPM. EGR is turned off but the canister purge is opened to burn off fuel vapors from the gas tank. Timing can be advanced for two reasons; first with low airflow signals there is little chance of detonation. Secondly, advanced timing helps push back on the pistons, this helps create that engine brake effect.

[One_Life_To_Give]

77. Causes O2 in the exhaust

Turning off the fuel causes the O2 levels in the exhaust to rise. The rise in O2 level prevents the Cat from dealing with NOx.

Has this program been approved by EPA for use?

[Roland99]

78. What program? It's pretty much on any car built today.

[One_Life_To_Give]

79. Sounds good

My mistake I guess. Your linked website sounds good.
I didn't think they could do this with the standard three way catalytic converter due to cooling and reducing (temporarily) it's ability to remove NOx.

[Roland99]

80. Not sure about the effects on the catalytic converter but I've read

and been told for a couple of years now that most any car today has a fuel injector shutoff if the RPMs are above a certain point and the accelerator is not depressed. There's no need to send fuel to the engine to keep it moving as long as it's in gear. Switching to neutral will reengage the fuel injectors as the computer will have to keep the engine running lest it would die.

[hfojvt]

76. up nort'

most people idle their cars for 15 minutes, not to warm up the engine, but to warm up the car's interior so they don't have to dress for the weather. People waste lots of gas waiting in drive-through lanes and puttering around in parking lots. I always park quickly and walk the rest of the way.

[IDemo]

13. Nope

CarTalk - "If you're sitting outside a tattoo parlor waiting for your grandmother, and you know it's going to take her a good 15 minutes to get that new Komodo dragon tattooed on her left butt cheek, turn off your engine. You're just burning money. Some people have heard a myth that it takes more gas to start a car than to run it. So they use that as an excuse to leave a car idling. It's complete B.S. If you're stationary for more than a couple of minutes, shut it off, and save gas."

Ford Motor Company - "If you're going to be stopped for more than 10 seconds, you'll save fuel and money by turning off the vehicle and then restarting it when you're ready to drive away."

[DUHandle]

9. Small Hatchback and the Designer Pick Up Truck

A few years ago when I had a Mazda 323 hatchback, I went to Home Depot for materials for a project. The car was almost full and the rear end was closer to the ground than usual.

Next to me was a Lincoln Pick Up truck. The driver opened the cover, and put his purchase in back, which a single tube of caulk.

[susanna]

25. LOL - now that cracks me up, and worse?

I can totally see that.

[sweetheart]

10. The school run is the problem

If every kid on earth needed petrol transport to school, we'd be screwed.

Its gotta change, the whole thing about school and transporting kids daily
to the campus. Internet yet?

[tulsakatz]

11. I hate SUVs!

I live in Oklahoma and I swear...........75% of the vehicles on the road are SUVs!! In the first place, no one in Oklahoma really NEEDS an SUV here! It doesn't snow that often and all of the roads here are paved.........so it's not like they need them for off the road driving. There is absolutely no reason why a person would need a 4 wheel drive here! Not to mention, if there's one in front of you or next to you, it's impossible to see around it if you're in a car.........

And that isn't even addressing the gas situation!! I'm almost glad it costs them so much money to fill those things up!

If the gas crisis can convince some people to get rid of their SUVs........it might even be worth it!!

[politicat]

15. What happened to carpools, walking, biking and buses?

I think the only time my parent picked me up at school was when I was sick or it was snowing hard. We walked, rode the bus, rode bikes or grabbed a carpool (my parents drove kids around in the evenings and on weekends in exchange for other parents doing the carpool thing after school).

In kindergarten, I rode a bus to school and carpooled home; in first grade, I took the bus, and I walked or biked home from school from the time I was in second grade. When I hit third grade, I had to walk one of my sisters home after school.

My parents made it a priority that we always lived in places with sidewalks and with schools within a mile even when that meant we weren't in base housing. And being military does mean that the local schools are better -- when the community has more revenue (from sales, property and other taxes), the schools do better.

[Roland99]

16. Well, this school is a Traditional School..covers a wide region of the co.

So some of the kids live several miles away. My daughter normally rides the bus to my sister's on the weeks I have her but since I was laid off last week (got a new job offer today), I've been picking her up as I don't have much else to do. ;)

[politicat]

17. What's a traditional school?

Congratulations on the new job offer!

[Roland99]

18. Stricter academic standards, dress code, focus on fundamentals

and thanks! :)

[politicat]

19. Okay, now for the obvious dumb question...

what's so hard about having higher standards in all of the schools in your community? And does cutting music and art really help the kids learn to do math any better?

Sorry, being a not-parent who works with teenagers on a daily basis, I do not understand what's going on with school districts, so I ask these questions a LOT. Being a not-parent, I don't get the same memos.

I'm not trying to be difficult; I just really want to understand.

[Roland99]

22. Not all kids can handle standards like these

For example, the low-end cutoff for an A is 94%. 87-93 is a B and on down the line.

Also, kids with discipline problems are not allowed entry or find themselves removed rather quickly.

Also, there are still music classes. My daughter was even in the choir club and they had their year-end concert the other night. There's a chess club, math club, problem-solving club, cheerleading team, soccer teams, etc.

It's a type of school that requires parental involvement in the child's studies. Something that, sadly, just doesn't exist much in today's society and, therefore, means many kids just won't cut it in the traditional school program.

[truth2power]

42. Believe it or not...

Starting when I was 5 years old, I WALKED to school and back, one mile each way, every day. By myself. So did all the other kids. "Course, that was looong ago. Today, you wouldn't let your kid out of your sight for 10 seconds. Just shows how times change, in so many ways, I guess. :P

[LibDemAlways]

69. I walked to school back then, too. In 1957

I started kindergarten. My mother didn't drive and the school was about a half mile away. I used to walk through a large apartment complex by myself as a short cut. The next year the district began bus service, but I still walked several blocks by myself to catch the bus.

I'm now the parent of a middle schooler. The school is about a mile and a half away. There is no bus transportation in this district and no public transportation at all in my suburban community. My daughter's backpack weighs probably 20 pounds and she frequently has to cart posterboard and other supplies for the various projects the teachers cook up. I've tried to start carpools with other parents, but have heard every excuse in the book why it wouldn't work. So, I trudge back and forth in my little fuel-efficient sedan, trying to stay out of the way of numerous behemoth SUVs driven one-handed by oblivious moms yakking into cellphones. I dread it, but there's just no easy solution.

[politicat]

86. Not cutting it.

20 pound backpack? Check. (Went up to almost 50 pounds when I hit Jr. high)

Bulky project/arts/music stuff? Check. (I played tenor sax and bass clarinet and CELLO.) I got a cute little luggage cart when I hit my freshman year for my instruments, but since I didn't have a locker (school charged for them and my folks wouldn't pay) I still hauled a lot of poundage everywhere. I've got a fabulous set of back muscles and even with my desk worker's tummy, I still have decent abs. And yes, a bass clarinet in a case can be balanced between the handlebars of a tenspeed, if you're not planning on changing gears.

Distance, busy streets and after-school stuff? Check.

Heat and hills in the days before commonly available bottled water? Check. Public drinking fountains? Nope. State law says that no one can refuse to give water, but there weren't many places to get water between school and home.

I have been out of public school for less than 15 years. In Jr. high, we lived about 1.33 miles from my school (closer for my younger sisters' elementary.) Two major roads (16th St. and 19th) to cross, and not much in the way of crossing help in the late 80s and 90s. It was Yuma. The place in the nation where 129 F is a fairly comfortable day in July, and overnight temps in December and January are often in the teens. When school started in August, I got burned walking home. Same towards the end of school, in May and early June. And yet I survived. (We had lived closer when I started Jr. High, but we moved, and my parents didn't want to screw up my friendships.) When I started high school, the walk increased by several blocks, and I had to be there earlier and usually stayed later.

The map of an approximate route from home to school is here: http://www.mapquest.com/directions/main.adp?do=nw&go=1&r=f&aoh=&aot=&aof=&1a=2250%20S%208th%20Ave&1c=Yuma&1s=AZ&1z=85364&1y=US&1l=VxD7c%2f1qdzQ%3d&1g=sN5jLHl5VKt2MQhg8cskTA%3d%3d&1pn=R%20Pete%20Woodard%20Junior%20High&1pl=928%2d782%2d6546&1v=ADDRESS&1ffi=1&1n=&1qn=R%20Pete%20Woodard%20Junior%20High&2a=&2c=Yuma&2s=AZ&2z=&2y=US&2l=Djye%2bCuu4vY%3d&2g=SiZi%2bR3y1rn%2fDFfiM4Mb%2bQ%3d%3d&2pl=&2v=CITY&2ffi=&2n=Yuma%20County&2qn=alice%20byrne%20elementary%20school&panelbtn=2&1qc=&q=woodard%20jr%20hugh&2pn=alice%20byrne%20elementary%20school&2sb=Alice%20Byrne%20Elementary%20School%7c811%20W%2016th%20St%7cYuma%7cAZ%7c85364%7c326985%7c%2d1146295%7c928%2d782%2d9585%7cUS&2qc=Schools%20%28K%2d12%29

We lived near the East Main canal, on the north side of 16th, but I don't want to say much more for privacy reasons. The NSA can probably piece together my identity from the things I've already said, but they already know who I am.

What I'm saying is that I don't see what's changed. I lived in a border town with a Marine base, not exactly Green Acres. I had marriage proposals at 13 from some of the jarheads (including some under my father's command... singularly brainless lads, but...). Between the heat and the crime rate, Yuma is not a friendly place for teenagers of any sort, but especially young women. (and there's nothing to do because it's in the middle of the desert, but that's another issue.) It has wretched traffic management, no public transit, and the attitude towards Marine families is less than cordial. But if I'd asked my parents to pick me up at school, they would have laughed. We weren't poor. If I needed to bring something home, I needed to make sure I could either arrange a ride, carry it myself, come up with some third option. The only changes I've seen are a) an increase in conspicuous consumption; b) a strong shift towards a Kid-centric culture and c) an increase in the hysteria level of child-centered reporting.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

85. Through the snow.

Uphill both ways.

[dysfunctional press]

20. call me silly, but as long as gasoline is a consumer product-

aren't people entitled to use it as they see fit, once they have purchased it?

how about this- we totally ban air conditioning in cars, and in any building except hospitals, grocery stores/food storage & processing facilities. after all air conditioning is a luxury, and just think of all the precious energy that could be saved...right?

[Roland99]

23. .

:eyes:

[dysfunctional press]

30. backatcha...

:eyes: :eyes:

[lectrobyte]

26. OK, "silly". Energy is precious, especially the kind made out of

petroleum. I hope some day we look back and laugh at how worried we were about wasting gas and peak oil before Mr. Fusion was invented.

[Ravenseye]

27. It's a nice design. I look forward to having one in my house.

[dysfunctional press]

29. but the price doesn't reflect that..and personally, i'm NOT worried-

about wasting gas and peak oil...it's all out of my control anyway, and alternatives are/will be found to replace the lion's share...and/or people and societies will have to make adjustments...i tend to take things as they come.

and in our society, once you purchase something, it is yours to do with as you please. if somebody, or even a lot of somebodies drive suv's that get lousy mileage- that's their problem, because they have to buy more gas more often.

do you think that air-conditioning should be banned in cars because of all the gas it wastes? do you ever use the air-conditioning in your car?

[Roland99]

31. "not my problem"....there's a nice attitude.

"let someone else do the right thing"

[dysfunctional press]

36. and what, pray tell...is the RIGHT thing?

If the dinosaur juice is so precious- it should be priced to reflect that.
or laws should be passed to dictate illegal uses.

as it is in this country- when you purchase a legal product, you are free to use it in a legal manner as you see fit.

do you think that air conditioning in cars should be outlawed, seeing as it wastes so much fuel?

[Roland99]

39. Conservation on every individual's part

Leaving it to someone else to fix the problem is nothing more than greed and gluttony.

As for your claims of A/C being a waste of fuel, have any facts to back up your claim?

[dysfunctional press]

45. what problem?

if gasoline is so precious, why isn't it priced to reflect it?
or- why aren't there laws specifying how, when, and where it can be used?

the sooner we get rid of petroleum, the sooner we'll make the switchover to something else.

[Roland99]

50. It's not that gasoline is precious, it's that the use of it has damaging

effects on the environment.

[dysfunctional press]

55. so- you don't have a car that burns fossil fuels, right?

do you ride a bicycle everywhere, or does your car use a alternate fuel source?
or do you rely strictly on public transportation...?

[Roland99]

56. Do you always engage in logical fallacies like this?

[dysfunctional press]

58. i just don't like hypocrites telling me how to use my fuel.

if i pay for it- i can use it how i see fit.
and unless you do ABSOLUTELY everything possible to not use fossil fuels, you have no right to pass judgement on my usage- unless of course you're admitting to being a hypocrite- then it's ok.

[Roland99]

60. Oh, I'm far from a hypocrite. And I'm not a greedy, selfish, glutton like

yourself.


I drive a 4-cyl sedan.
I don't use drive-thru windows at banks.
I turn off my engine when at a traffic light for more than 30 secs.
I drive slow and steady and skip gears when shifting.
I turn off the A/C when going up a hill or taking off from a traffic light.
I don't make unnecessary trips.
I walk up to the store if I just need a few items.
I take the bus downtown if I have business down there.


At least I'm making an effort unlike a selfish, self-absorbed, brash youngster like yourself.

[B3Nut]

32. I use my A/C

wouldn't own a car without it. My Kia Rio5 returns 30+ with it off or on, I haven't noticed any significant effect on MPG from AC use, and I keep meticulous fuel records for every tank since the day I bought the car. I keep it in a notebook in the glovebox and periodically enter it all into an Excel spreadsheet I made to track fuel economy with. My previous car (Escort ZX2) also returned good mileage regardless of whether or not I used the AC. Modern compressors are more efficient that they used to be. If you turn the AC off and drive like a bat out of Toledo you'll get worse mileage than if you drive in a mellow manner with the AC on, as far as that goes.

Todd in Beerbratistan

[dysfunctional press]

37. i drive fast with the AC on...

we average 20 mpg without AC, 18 mpg with AC on.

[Roland99]

40. I suppose driving at a reasonable speed and no jack-rabbit starts

ever occurred to you?

[dysfunctional press]

44. nope.

when i'm in my car, i'm trying to get from point a to point b as quickly as possible.
it may reduce my mileage, but i can afford it.

[MadHound]

46. And meanwhile, all that extra fuel you're burning

Is contributing to the decline in air quality, and adding to the global warming problem.

Way to be part of the problem, not part of the solution:thumbsdown:

[dysfunctional press]

47. the problem is the people who drive too slow.

the sooner i get to where i'm going, the less time my car spends spewing toxins into the air.

[Roland99]

49. Wow. What a complete failure of logic.

News flash!

If your gas mileage is LOWER when you drive fast, it means you're using MORE gas and spewing MORE pollutants into the air.

[MadHound]

53. Sorry, but real world testing does not support your position

Thanks for playing, try again.

Better yet, try burning less fuel why don't you. Ease up on the jackrabbit starts, excessive speeds, and me first sort of driving:shrug: Not only will you be helping us all breathe cleaner air and burn less fuel, you'll also be saving money:think:

Oh, and your philosophy that the sooner we run out of fuel the sooner we switch to something else has a huge flaw in it, namely that such an event is going to kill the US economy, and cause untold misery for millions of Americans. Rather, we should start switiching to an alternative NOW, and doing our utmost to conserve in the meantime.

[dysfunctional press]

57. you do it your way, i'll do it mine.

as long as gasoline is cheap, plentiful, and legal, i'll use mine as i see fit, and you can do the same. once it gets over $6.00/gallon, i'll probably have to adjust my usage as well. :hi:

[MadHound]

62. That would be fine friend, except for one thing

The way you drive directly impacts me and all the rest of us. It spews more pollution into the air, and it drives up the cost of fuel for all of us. Thinking that your gas usage only effects you is a huge fallacy, one we need to get rid of. We ALL need to change our driving habits, including you. So you lose a few minutes of time by going slower, hey, try leaving earlier. And I find that your use of a vehicle that only gets 20mpg absolutely obscene. Hell, my truck gets better than that, and I parked it long ago except for when I absolutely need it.

Oh, and when gas gets to be 6.00/gal you and all the rest of us are going to have to adjust to a hell of lot more than our gas usage. We'll also have to adjust to a collapsing economy, sky high inflation, and our country going into a serious decline. That is why we need to turn this around now before things get that bad. Think, friend, please of something and somebody other than your own self.

Or hell, be another sheep trundling right on over that cliff:eyes: Trouble is your foolishness is going to take the rest of us with you. Again, thanks for being part of the problem, not part of the solution:eyes:

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

64. Couldn't have said it better myself, MadHound.

:thumbsup:

Never thought I'd actually see someone who's proud of being a glutton.

[Odin2005]

71. BINGO! QuestionAll sounds like those libertarian morons who don't ...

...understand the notion of greater good and the tragedy of the commons, all they care about is ME ME ME! :eyes:

[Roland99]

48. And you don't care about driving too fast for conditions?

And you don't realize breaking the speed limit within a city will save you about 18 seconds at most on a trip of less than 20 miles?

[dysfunctional press]

51. i didn't say that i drive too fast for conditions-

and since i've never been at fault in an accident- i obviously am not driving "too fast for conditions".

and i don't know where you get that 18-second figure, but i'm guessing it came out of your ass, since i regularly get to where i'm going 5-10 minutes ahead of other people that leave at the same time to the same destinations. think "the wolf" from pulp fiction- that's how i drive.

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dysfunctional press]

59. and i guess that you feel that rules are for other people, right?

seeing as you feel free to break forum rules, and all.

wow is right.

[Roland99]

61. uh...yeah...right.

BTW, still waiting on the proof of your claims that A/C wastes fuel.

[bleedingheart]

34. My minivan costs me $12/day when I use it to go to work...

it is paid off and it has 111,000 miles on it...and it gets better gas mileage than some..(Toyota Sienna) but it is a gas hog...

I wanna get another, far more fuel efficient car, but I have to wait until my other car ...Toyota Corolla (40 mpg) is paid off...

I have done the math..I will lose more money out of my monthly budget if I buy another car or trade it in right now...so please don't judge all of us...

Plus I have two kids and very frequently am hauling 4-5 people if not more around in that minivan and I use it to haul stuff like lumber, garden supplies...it is a very well used car...

[B3Nut]

41. I'd love to have a minivan around

an older used one that runs well, to schlep my Hammond to gigs. It would mostly stay parked, though.

Todd in Beerbratistan

[madokie]

35. Like me for instance, In '98 when I bought our present f150

I had no idea that we would be taken over by the religious right and that the neo-cons would make a mess of things like they have, I guess I shoulda' been after all they were on Clinis like a chicken on a june bug. Our truck sits under the carport most of the time now tho'. Only used to haul stuff and pull our boat to the lake on occasion. Just sitting there it's not eating much hay.

[Atman]

66. Did any of you see the 400lb guy on CNN talking about ways to save fuel?

It was pretty funny. He talked about not carrying around excess weight in your car, and not using a car-top carrier. He even said to fill up when the temperature is cold, because you'll get more gas in your tank. What that has to do with saving gas, I don't know. But I found it hysterical that this giant 400lb guy (okay, he might have been only 320) was talking about losing a couple bits of junk in your trunk in order to gain an extra half mile per gallon, while he was carrying around so much in his own that he probably gets winded just walking from the front door to his Escalade.

[Odin2005]

72. Why the hell are parents DRIVING thier kids to school?

Haven't they ever heard of a BUS?

[Roland99]

74. There are various reasons. And this was picking up, not dropping off

Either way, shouldn't matter.

Some people leave work and pick up their kid(s) on the way home.
Some, like me, just like a little more time with them.
Some don't like their kid(s) getting home at nearly 5pm.
Some don't want their kid(s) walking home in the rain.
Some may be taking their kid(s) to a doctor, visit family, out to eat, etc.


Many and varied reasons. That's not what should be at issue. The issue is sitting in an idling vehicle for 20 min. or more when there's no need to.

[NastyDiaper]

81. Catholic school...

... so no bus for my two daughters. I think the same thing you do in the pickup line.

Don't get me started on this 105 pound, chest inflated, Bush04 Hummer driving bitch that looks up from her cell phone only long enough to wave her fat kid into the car.

If she's rich enough to fill that thing up, whatever. Bleh. My car automatically switches automatically to electric mode :) in line.

[CAcyclist]

83. There's always a bus

We had to take the public bus across town to get to grade school which was Catholic. My mom walked us to the bus stop and rode with us through the two different buses we had to take and then walked us to the school to show us how to do it and then we walked and rode the buses ourselves from thereon out. I was glad to go to public school when I was ready for junior high, because all I had to do was hop the fence, but taking public transportation is a skill that everyone needs to learn.

[Roland99]

89. The more suburban/rural areas here have no public bus service

unless you want to walk a mile or two to a stop. No way in hell I'm letting my daughter do that. Heck, until my recent move, her school bus stop was 1/4 mile away.

[CAcyclist]

90. Well, then you made that choice - you'll have to pay more for gas

But you do admit that there IS a bus. Your daughter is in more danger from developing obesity and all the associated health risks - high blood pressure, diabetes,etc. due to inactivity than she in danger of being hit by a car while walking or biking.

[Roland99]

91. uh....whoa...settle down there with the generalizations and accusations

jesus h. christ.


Everyone is now supposed to get up and move to a spot where a bus stop is outside their front door?


:eyes:

[CAcyclist]

93. What generalizations?

You said there wasn't a bus , then you admitted there was a bus, but it was "too far away". A mile is not too far away. But if you choose not use allow your daughter to exercise and instead waste gas to get her to school, that's your problem and your choice. Just don't complain about how you can't do this and you can't do that as if you don't have a choice - you do have a choice. am sick and tired of all these lazy, selfish people on these boards and you are one of them.

[Roland99]

94. I was referring to the people who live in areas w/o school bus service

this is a large county and this school accepts students from about 1/3 of the county.

I am not complaining about anything. This thread is about the morans sitting in their SUVs for 20+ min. idling waiting to pick up their kids. As for my daughter, I walked her to the bus stop or drove if it was cold or rainy. And my daughter is FAR from suffering from obesity or any other maladay.