Pro-partial birth abortion......What the hell is that suppose to mean?

[Tinksrival]

I know it's repub sucky wedge language but since campaigning is starting to heat up, I have heard this term being used by Repubs against their challengers. Actually, I've heard and read it three times in the last 24 hours.
I guess I'm not up to speed on terminology but I did google it and got mostly right wing propaganda.
I am not sure how to address this topic and it seems they will be spewing it often.
I live in a repub suburb and I do plan on volunteering to help campaign for Dems so I would like to be prepared for this. From what I understand Bush signed the 2003 partial birth abortion ban act.
So does that make it illegal in every state? Was there a vote in the senate and this is how they are labeling the Senate Dem candidates? Does any one know where I can go to read the language of such legislation?
Maybe it's not even worth the time cause it's one of those issues that it's pointless to debate.
I do feel though I should have some basic facts, cause you know how we Dems like the facts! :patriot:

Thanks

[KingFlorez]

1. It means nothing, it's just slander

[MadMaddie]

2. This procedure apparantly is rarely performed....

they take an issue and blow it out of proportion.....

The Dems have to stop running away from these issues and get the facts out...

[radwriter0555]

18. I have only found 3 cases on record, and they were indicated during

the original testimony that described the "procedure'. If anyone knows of anyone who's ever had one I've never come across them.

In my opinion, aside from the one 'doctor' who invented this alleged procedure, I don't believe it's ever been performed since that time nor has any medical institution considered using this type of procedure.

[Erika]

3. There are times when partial birth abortion is called for

As a pediatrician testified before Congress. It is a rarely performed procedure as is the need for it.

As the doctor explained, partial birth abortions are performed when a woman finds out late in pregnancy that the baby would not survive the birthing process. To put the mother through delivery would be cruel

One case was extreme spinal spifida, the other was a baby with only one heart chamber. Neither could have survived.

[niyad]

13. PLEASE don't use that non-medical term, as you are simply giving

credence to a deliberately manipulative rw propoganda ploy. once again, the extremely rare medical procedure is known as intact dilation and extraction.

[kestrel91316]

20. "Partial birth abortion" is a nonsensical term. The PROPER MEDICAL TERM

is "intact dilation and extraction", as opposed to "dilation and curettage" aka D&C.

[Mist]

4. I suppose the opposite "frame" could be: "I'm pro-saving-women's-lives"

Extremely late-term abortions are only done because of risk to the mother's life. And "partial-birth abortion" isn't an actual medical term, IIRC.

On edit: As Erica above points out, it's also done when there's no hope for the infant. My bad.

[MissB]

5. It isn't even a real medical procedure.

There is a term for that particular procedure (recognized by the AMA) that is performed fairly rarely. What they really mean is a D&X. Here are two links for you. The first one talks about the ruling, and the second one talks about the procedure itself.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=1561645

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5168163

[Tinksrival]

9. Thank you missb

for the links. Thank you all for info. My daughter had a friend spend the night and she told us how she could not vote for a Democrat because of what she saw in her health class. She told us they were shown graphic pictures of late term abortions. She attends Marrion Catholic High School.
She was asking me my opinion and I told her she should get other sources of information on the subject than just the Catholic church. I told her what she saw is not common and is when the life of the mother was in danger but of coarse she stated that was not what the school said.
I did saw that it was a personal choice and neither choice is right or wrong but is an individual choice and no business of the government. She replied that the church insists it's murder so it is.
To which I replied that there are many important reasons in chosing a candidate, like how they would care for the children already born.
I guess that's all you can really say. :shrug:
I still plan on studying that legislation language though...Thanks again

[Hekate]

24. What an uncomfortable situation for you

You did well in a difficult situation with that poor brainwashed girl. I'm sure the illustrations her school showed those girls were of perfect Gerber babies, not (for instance) anencephalic monsters with no top to their skulls and only a brain-stem where a brain should be.

The only thing I would change is using the word "choice" in connection with this rare procedure.

I would emphasize "medically necessary procedure" -- "tragedy" -- "wanted baby" -- "saving the life of the mother" -- because women don't exactly choose to have a disastrous, life-threatening, medical emergency. This is surgery, surgery is bloody, and this surgery is dangerous for the mother and not done lightly.

And I would never let the term "partial birth abortion" go uncorrected.

Hekate

[TankLV]

6. There is no such thing - that is a fantasy term created by wacko fundy

REPUKES to gain CONTROL OVER A WOMAN'S BODY!

There is no such procedure in existence.

Next question.

[Mz Pip]

7. Partial birth abortion

is a red herring wedge issue. The anti-abortion crowd make it sound like it's a common practice, with women who are 8 months pregnant deciding they don't want the kid. It's bogus. The only time those late term abortions occur is when there is something seriously wrong. They are very very rare, maybe about 1500 a year in the entire country and involved seriously deformed fetuses.

I would ask any anti-abortion person to actually describe what they think they are accomplishing by banning a procedure even when the life of the mother is at stake. Why would the government be involved in a serious medical procedure? If it were their daughter or wife would they really want the governemnt essentially saying the woman has to die?

The last time a partial birth abortion ban was before the Supreme Court it was blocked because it did not include a provision for an exception for the health of the mother. I think it was a Nebraska law. Who knows what this latest court will do.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[Fridays Child]

8. The actual name of the procedure is "late-term abortion," and here is...

...one woman's sad and touching story: http://www.boston.com/news/globe/magazine/articles/2004/01/25/my_late_term_abortion/

I hope this article will give you a good grasp of the complexities surrounding the issue.

[Tinksrival]

10. Thanks Fridays Child

I appreciate the link.

[niyad]

12. no, the proper term is intact dilation and extraction.

[gumby]

17. That was an emotional story.

Years ago, when this "strategy" first came into being, I listened to a Congressional hearing where many brave women stepped forth and gave testimony of similar heartbreaking situations.

I despise the neo-fascist's use of reproduction for their political gains.

[niyad]

11. the proper term is intact dilation and extraction--there is NO SUCH

medical procedure as partial birth abortion, it is an emotionally-laden term dreamed up by the reichwingnuts to use as a wedge issue.

I refer to all who oppose abortion as anti-choicers, and given the virulence of their rhetoric lately, now refer to them as woman-hating, pro-forced birthers. we need to frame these issues to point out the hatred and vituperativeness of the reichers.

[Tinksrival]

14. Thanks niyad!

Those are much better terms. I agree we need to use different language. That's one of the reasons I asked. So thanks! :hi:

[niyad]

16. you are more than welcome. always glad to help the debate along on

the proper lines.

[Hamlette]

15. most states limit late term abortions except when life of mother

is in danger...the dems have agreed to ban "partial birth abortion" as long as it is allowed when life in danger...GOP says no.

Should make everyone very nervous. If the religious right won't allow late term abortion to safe the life of the mother, will they allow other procedures earlier to save the life of the mother? I say no. And these people have NO IDEA what they are talking about. Talk to someone about why the support a ban on partial birth abortion. Bet you a dollar they don't know it is almost always used to save the life of the mother or that the Dems said they'd ban it as long as it could be used to save mother's life. The idiots don't know either of those facts.

And we let them vote. Sheesh.

[Bruden]

19. campaiging on dead issues

[gumby]

21. Is that supposed to be a joke?

Just asking.

[Baconfoot]

22. "Partial birth abortion"is NOT a non-technical term 4A technical procedure

People keep saying things like "the proper term for THE procedure is such-and-such." But the issue with the term "partial birth abortion" is NOT just that it's a non-technical, emotionally laden term for a well-defined medical procedure.

The issue is that the term does NOT refer to ANY medical procedure, EVEN one that goes by another name. The term is ambiguous. Many different procedures, some used in the 2nd trimester, fall under the ambiguous "definition" of "partial birth abortion."

Here is an analogy: What if someone tried to make a law disqualifying "wishy-washy" politicians from running for office? In their law they do about as good a job as one might expect in defining wishy-washiness and unfortunately the law as written, while not completely clear, seems to extend to anyone who's not a Republican, creating Constitutional issues. Then the Republicans propagate the rumor that "wishy-washy" just means "Kucinich Supporter," something for which it's actually possible to determine a referent, unlike "wishy-washy person." The law doesn't actually read that way, but this is what they are telling people.

Now imagine the DU message boards get flooded with well-meaning progressives saying: Don't you buy the Republican propaganda! "Wishy-washy" is a derogatory term. There is no such thing as a "wishy-washy" person. The proper technical term is "Kucinich supporter."

If that happened I think everyone would be clear on the following facts:
a)The core issue wouldn't be about a derogatory term. That would be an issue but a peripheral one.
b)There's a really good argument for why "Kucinich supporters" should be able to hold office but in any case
c)The law in question is worse than merely a law banning "Kucinich supporters," it at least bans all non-Republicans as best as it can be made out.
d)The law is unconstitutionally vague.

[AtomicKitten]

23. trust me on this one -- partial birth abortion is a red herring

I have transcribed surgery reports for 30 years in California, probably the most liberal state in the nation, for hospitals all over the state. This procedure would have to be done in a hospital. I have NEVER, as in EVER transcribed such a procedure. I am not saying I don't believe they are ever done, I just can testify to the fact that this is a bullshit red herring to get the weepy baby-huggers out to vote against abortion. It's bullshit. Epic bullshit.