If it's Hillary, I go third-party

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

Whether Mr. Nader runs or not-I'll find someone.

And don't give me that "it's a crime to say there's no difference.." spiel. In a McCain/Hillary race, there really isn't much of one. In some ways, McCain might actually be slightly preferable. This party can do better and shouldn't let the rw media pick the nominee.

[AtomicKitten]

1. so be it -- bye

On edit: No worries. AL GORE will get the nod.

[billbuckhead]

2. Was America better under Clinton or the Republicans?

There is a difference.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

14. neither-bill laid the foundation for dubya's house

NAFTA and GATT started the economic misery. telecommunications act gave us fox news and sinclair.
besides, the anolgy is false. mccain is not bush and hill is not bill. but both are corporatists
the damage from reagan/bush/clinton/bush is too severe. wed on't need another triangulator. we need someone in the mold of fdr who will fix it. no time for moderate right, which is what you get with hillary and mccain. the pendulum can't swing any further right. we need to go left.
feingold could work. or the reinvigorated al gore.
but hillary?
i think not.
to entertain the option of rolling over for her is to deny this country a real chance to survive and rebuild from the mess that started in 1980.

[madrchsod]

20. neither

clinton`s trade policy ,welfare "reform", and the continued iraq sanctions were the two biggest stains on his presidency.clinton just slowed the the destruction of the middle class that was started in the mid 70`s and bush has just about killed the middle class.

[Pierzin]

3. Hillary is a Sellout!!!

I will not support anyone without enough of a spine to oppose this president and the RW Media. Damn the MSM and the GOP Majority! Get on board with Russ Feingold and John Conyers.

[rpannier]

4. I can see your point

The country sure sucked under Bill didn't it? (sarcasm)

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

18. actually, yeah it did

welfare reform, GATT, NAFTA, triangulation, WTO, MFN for China, defense of marriage act, TELCOMM ACT, etc

bush is worse, but bill made it all possible. his name should be somewhere in the credits for dubya's mess

[rpannier]

21. Massive employment, budget surplus, good wages,

good relationship with other governments, an administration loved and admired around most of the world.
Yep, sure was terrible.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

43. You're supposed to do those things

saying that bill was great because he didn't destroy the world as fast as dubya isn't much of an excuse.

but you seem to overlook the fact that bill was mostly ACTIVELY WORKING AGIANST US and FOR THE CORPORATE INTERESTS

[shadowknows69]

71. I experienced "Welfare reform" first hand during Clinton

and the city I live in should be a poster child for it run amok. I was briefly homeless and had to go on welfare which I actually took as an opportunity. I had friends and family I could have stayed with almost indefinitely until a decent job came along of which there are pitiful few around here but I decided to let the state hopefully get me some career training. I was intelligent and had a partial college education which I wanted to finish or expand upon and I figured there had to be some kind of program to get promising displaced workers new training. Apparently only if I decided to shack up with a woman and breed I was told in no uncertain terms. Single males just get to go to work for their food and lodging. Even this I looked forward to but the hours they had me working made it difficult to go looking for another job which was a requirement. The big job training I got with welfare reform? They had me working at the library putting books on the shelves. Not a problem. I love books. I'll look into busting my ass and working my way up the library system ladder. I was informed that apparently you need at least a bachelors degree to become any kind of librarian, at least where I am. Eventually I was booted off welfare because my job search wasn't fruitful, cut my rent payments off prematurely so I ended up owing the landlord of my roach infested apartment $200 I had no way of getting and they(Department of Social Services) even tried to get me to pay them back like 300 dollars they claim they over paid me. Honestly the only thing that prevented me from becoming hard core homeless at that point, and this might sound bad, but somehow I got a woman (my wife now) to fall in love with my poor ass and we moved in together. It works for some people and it doesn't for others. Then and now. Still needs some work.

[BillZBubb]

5. What is it with you knuckleheads?????

McCain might be preferable???? What friggin planet do you live on???? Better for judiciary? Better for abortion rights? Better dealing with foreign governments? Better for the environment? Better for the economy?

Jeez, I can't believe some of the shit people post.

[proud2BlibKansan]

57. LOL I am with you on that one!!

It's truly amazing isn't it?

[mtnsnake]

6. Don't let the door hit ya!

[Tarc]

7. In other news

A child on a playground picked up his ball and took it home with him.

[Chevy]

Gore will squash her

so it matters not.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

8. Thanks For Campaigning To Hurt Our Cause. But Just Know That's Not Allowed

here. Do what ya want. Hurt our cause due to narrow mindedness. I can't stop you. But just know that this site is to support democratic candidates, and it is against the rules to promote non-democratic candidates come election time.

Just wanted to make sure you were aware.

[SnoopDog]

9. Agreed....

Even Ed Schultz wants her - makes me wonder....

I have no problem with her being a Senator. She is not presidential material and I would question her Democratic alliance.

Watch her vote on the tax cuts for the rich coming soon....



On edit, bet I get flamed for this... that is ok...this is my humble opinion...

[onehandle]

10. Different Year. Different Election.

This year is Congress.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

11. what a douche nt

nt

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[buff2]

12. WAY TO GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No wonder the repukes are pushing for Hillary to run! VOTE 3rd PARTY AND HAND THE PRESIDENCY TO THE REPUKES FOR ANOTHER EIGHT YEARS!!!!!!!!! Guess you haven't had enough,huh? Oh well....let's just resign to the fact that we will be a fascist nazi country from now on and hated world wide! Yip-eeee! :party: :toast: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :toast: :party: :applause: :applause:

[LynneSin]

30. This is the damn smartest thing I've ever read on DU

Seriously - you're absolutely right on target with that one.

They need the party divided and what better way than to pray that Hilary runs.

I'll vote for her if she is the nominated choice, but I'm not ready to bet the farm on the fact that she's even running.

Even on Hilary's absolutely worst day ever and a republican's best ever day I'll still vote for Hilary - no qualms whatsoever!

[proud2BlibKansan]

59. Same here

Why don't these people see that?

[skipos]

13. Not me. I am morally opposed to letting republicans win.

Hillary is the LAST person I want nominated too.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

16. but she is a republican, too

that's why she and her husband keep going right. they know people will stick by them because theyhave a d by their name. don't let yourself be taken for granted.

[skipos]

23. FUNNY! nt

[mtnsnake]

24. If anyone's a republican it's not her. It's you

for starting a dumbass thread like this promoting how to get defeated by the repukes again.

Here we've got Hillary Clinton who ranks in the top 10 of all senators when it comes to voting progressively on all the issues, and someone comes crawling out of the woodwork like you to slander her with a lying statement like "she is a republican".

She's the farthest thing from a republican. Just checking her voting record in the Senate proves you wrong.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

44. top 10 according to who-she voted for the war and bankruptcy reform

then when b.r. came up for a vote again, she snuck out of voting altogether, lest she have to change her position and offend citibank

[sam sarrha]

17. can you really look at that picture of McCain humping *'s leg and say he

he is better than a crack whore, for president,

Hillery is playing a game, you cant show your hand at this time, they have to be kept off guard.

you want her to play into the hands of the Facist Propaganda Rovarians

i dont see her running at all anyway.. she is just a distraction

[sam sarrha]

19. we already have a crack whore for pResident..

[Perky]

22. See ya. you poor poor child.

But its folks like you who desertion of the democrats that gives the GOP victory in 2008.

You are willing to let Social Security be privatize; You aw willing to let the NEO-cons run foreign Policy; You are willing to suffer the blow of unfair taxation. You would be willing to see Roe overturned and our constitutional right trampled on.

You would rather vote on some myopic principle then protect the poor and disenfranchised.

You are not a a Democrat, you are not a liberal.. You are a blind, spoiled and politically naive child.

Don;t blame the Democrats when the Gestapo busts down your door for on some trumped up charge.

[0rganism]

25. So is McCain part of your premise, too?

What if it's Hillary Clinton vs. Pat Robertson? Or Steve Forbes? Or Pat Buchanan? Or David Duke? Isn't there ANYONE the GOP could nominate who would scare you into voting for Hillary in 2008?

And what about the VP pick? Could be Kucinich, could be Feingold, could be someone really gets your rocks off. Are you assuming she'd pick a Lieberman?

One of my great lifetime regrets is voting for Nader back in 2000. He LIED to me, and thousands of others, and nearly cost Gore Oregon's electoral votes in the process -- a 6000 vote difference, IIRC, with Nader pulling 5%. Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. Don't let it be one of yours, too.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

26. I won't go third party...

but I will write in a Democratic candidate.

[LostInAnomie]

27. Fuck that!

Anyone that is dumb enough to think that voting for a third party at this point in history is a wise decision needs to have some sense beaten into them. I'd vote for the Devil himself if it meant not having to put up with eight more years of these RW fucks. Hillary is not the best choice by any measure but the "best choice" by DU's standards would be unelectable to the rest of the country.

I'm perfectly fine with voting for a DINO as long as they at least stand for the very basic tenets of the Democratic Party. Let's just make sure that there is a solid Dem congress in place to ensure that it's our legislation they are signing into law.

[oneold1-4u]

28. With you there!

I only hope that bunch goes down the drain along with the present bunch. If there isn't someone who can really lead, then we are "sunk" as a nation, and I will live out my life knowing I wasn't just another lead weight!

[xultar]

29. BUH BYE!

[emulatorloo]

31. What is with all the Hillary threads. . .worry about 06, not o8 EOM

[depakid]

32. It's not going to be Hillary

Her negatives are way too high- the far right spent billions over many years to make sure that was so.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

33. If the Democrats are dumb enough to pick DLC Hillary Hawk

I'll be voting anti-war.

[LittleClarkie]

34. Geez louise, can we get past 2006 before everyone freaks over 2008

And could we PLEASE deal with the "what is" instead of the "what if"?

IF Hillary is nominated, you can deal with it then.

[emulatorloo]

38. Just when the dems are poised to win, DU'ers want to leave the party

over imaginary presidential nominations. . .stirring up emotions over things that haven't happened yet . . . .kinda funny. . .

[LittleClarkie]

40. I've been reading a book about practicing mindfulness

It covers stuff like this. Be in the moment. Deal with what is in front of you, and stop getting all anxious about what's happened in the past and what's going to happen in the future. The present moment is new.

It helps. I tend to freak as well.

[CoffeeCat]

35. Hillary is an AWFUL candidate, and her

...candidacy would be a disgrace to the Progressive wing of the party.

She consorts with BushCo. She's been silent on many of the critical issues facing
our party and our world. She's part of the problem.

I can't think of anyone I would want to run less on the Dem ticket. Lieberman maybe.

We need real change. These are serious times. Hillary is not the answer.

What to do if she's the nominee? I doubt seriously that it will happen.

However, if there is collusion between the Dems and Reps---who are mostly owned by the corporations--then I would not be surprised if primary election stealing (on the Dem side) happened.

I would not be a bit surprised if the wholly-owned, corporatist politicians on both side had arrangements, "You ignore when we get creative with the elections, and we'll ignore it when you do the same."

Cynical, I know.

[politicasista]

36. Shouldn't you be focusing on 06?

The RW MSM is trying use the Hillary factor to distract us from Blinky and the REAL serious issues of the country. Hillary bashing is just what the media and Doughboy want.

[onenote]

37. have a nice life!

Of course, with a four more scalitos on the court, it might not be much of a life, but at least you'll have the satisfaction of knowing you helped make it possible.

onenote

[Captain Hilts]

39. Republicans are counting on this. nt

[XOKCowboy]

41. That's defeatism at it's worst...

So you'll just hand over the reins to the country back to known thieves and crooks?

Not to Hillary Bash but if what we read about the netroot's influence on the liberal and progressive movements, Hillary isn't the shoe-in that the MSM and the Right are portraying her.

To go 3rd party is to give up and help the enemy. At this point dancing monkeys would be better than the Repugs.

[tjwash]

42. What exactly do you want?

Seriously. I want to know exactly what you want in a candidate. Jumping up and down and stamping your feet in your OP just makes you sound like a bitter frustrated little person that is throwing a temper tantrum. Then again, I have come to expect that in quite a few people here at DU.

You know what I want in a candidate? I want someone who opposed the war in Iraq, has spoken out about global warming for decades, advocates a total overhaul of the health care system, with a proven record of turning record deficits into record surpluses, a proven record of reducing poverty, and a good understanding of science, technology, and government. That's what I want. Is there anyone out there that fills that? Yeah. Me, but no one knows who the fuck I am. Boo-hoo for me, my candidate isn't in, so I'm going to throw a shit-fit.

Go ahead dislike Clinton's politics, after all, she's made some votes that I certainly am not happy about. But, she is absolutely exceptional, and she has a brain that very few people in a generation are born with. She also has guts and staying power that no one else has.

But, I guess, that just like every other green, every single stinking year, that any election comes up, we are going to hear all of you talk down to us like we are beneath you are something, because you want a "real" lefty, with an impossibly long list of out of reach criteria to match; and if you can't get it, your going to show us, by making sure that your vote goes for someone that does not have a snowballs chance in hell in even taking one state, and then act surprised when we end up with a right-wing neo-con pnac-enabled monster in the White House.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

47. I want someone who will get us out of this mess

and isn't afraid to dream big
I want a new FDR, Wellstone, ot their like

not someone who merely drags their feet and will keep the seat warm for the next GOP wave of havoc-like her husband did
we can't afford that. bill squandered an opportunity. Hillary isn't even as good as he is.

[chicofaraby]

45. I will NOT vote for ANYONE

who voted for the war in Iraq.

It really comes down to that for me.

[mtnsnake]

52. Did you vote for Kerry in 2004?

He voted for the war, too. If you didn't vote for Kerry, then you only have people like yourself to thank for 4 more years of Bush. If you did vote for Kerry, like I would hope to think you did, then you're being hypocritical to say you wouldn't vote for Clinton.

[chicofaraby]

53. Yes I did vote for Kerry.

And I am ashamed of it.

But I won't be ashamed of my vote in 2008.

I'd rather lose again than feel as bad as I did in 2004 when I held my nose and voted for John Kerry.

If that makes me a hypocrit, I can live with that. I can't live with voting for the Republican(lite)s again.

I really hope Russ Feingold gets the nomination. I WANT to vote for a liberal.

[proud2BlibKansan]

62. I have voted in every presidential election since 1972

and I honestly can't think of many where I DIDN'T hold my nose as I voted.

Lesser of two evils. That's what it ALWAYS boils down to.

I want Feingold too. But I am realistic enough to realize the chances of his name being on the ballot are pretty slim.

[ghostsofgiants]

78. That's a sad fucking statement about your party.

[proud2BlibKansan]

80. It's a sad fucking statement about our country

but the alternative is not voting at all.

[Tactical Progressive]

72. Well if you're a green

- and by that I mean one of the bitter, dishonest, backstabbing progressives on the fringe who go around spreading six-of-one, two sides of the same coin, no-difference between the parties lies - then you gave us the war in Iraq and everything else, including the WTC attack.

If you're one of those, then sure, don't vote for the enablers of the Iraq War - yourselves.

But even if you're not, don't blame mainstream Democrats, who did everything they could in 2000 to keep these fascists away from power. Blame the angry, sanctimonious hard-left or-else progressives for what they did in 2000 to this nation, including what we did in Iraq.

[SeveneightyWhoa]

46. How great for you.

Enjoy Jeb Bush or John McCain.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

48. We haven't had a ballot since 1972 w/o a bush, clinton or dole

i'm sick of the same corporate elitists being trotted out every 4 years and things keep getting worse

Feingold would be awesome. Dean rocks. I have acquired a profound respect for Gore since he rediscovered his roots. I could tolerate kerry, even.

but hillary doesn't move us forward. she'll only keep us going backwards-just at a slowert pace

[proud2BlibKansan]

64. Well I would rather move backwards with Hillary than with Jeb or McCain

[fishnfla]

49. Yah know what? Dweedle dee-Dweedle dum

I just had an epihany: it just doesn't matter.

Shit, who knew JEB was the smart one? Let him clean up this mess.

[idlisambar]

50. These posts are a dime a dozen n/t

[GreenArrow]

51. there are two choices:

A Democratic Corporatist, or,
A Republican Corporatist.

Anyone who is not one of the above will not be nominated by either of the two major parties.

Other candidates from other parties will run, of course, but the winner is going to be a Corporatist.

Hilary is bad, yes, but she is no worse than John Edwards, Al Gore, or John Kerry, or Mark Warner, just to name a few possibilities.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

54. that's rather defeatist

i still think we can shake things up if we unify againt this before the primaries

only under the threat of a mas walk-out will the party lquit taking us for granted

[GreenArrow]

63. I don't think it's defeatist at all;

it's simply the elephant sitting in the living room that no one wants to admit is there.

The threat of a mass walkout will not stop the Democratic Party from taking its constituents for granted. The actual execution of such a mass walkout and its accompanying fallout might get its attention, but given the nature of the electorate, that's not really likely to happen, at least at this time.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

83. true about thatnature thing

look at the vitriol you get for talking about such a hypothetical here

[Jeffersons Ghost]

55. why not just vote Republican, like you probably did last time?

anyone knows a third party vote is almost as useless as a Republican vote in bringing about real change in DC. Besides those pres. elections are way off and alot can happen before they come. Who are you endorsing in Nov?

[proud2BlibKansan]

82. LOL

[incapsulated]

56. Yeah, just like Gore was no different from Bush, right?

Bugger off with this bullshit.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

58. pre 9-11 bush and gore were frightfully similar

just watch that 2nd debate where gore agrees with bush's position 43 times.

and hillary and mccain are even more similar. both pro-war, pro-globalization, bankruptcy reform, etc, etc.
neither stands for anything outside of their pundit-approved positions

[incapsulated]

61. Uh,uh...

So, I'm presuming you have reconsidered your evaluation of Gore versus Bush, Democrat versus Republcian based on...

THE NIGHTMARE OF THE PAST SIX YEARS???

Or do you still think it was a toss-up? Worth another shot?


Jesus tapdancing Christ.

[SaveElmer]

60. Don't let the door hit ya on the a** on the way out...

You probably think your are part of the "base"

:rofl:

[Name removed]

65. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SaveElmer]

67. You should get some sleep...

The school bus gets there pretty early I am sure!

[Name removed]

70. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BeTheChange]

69. Nobody ever sees that its the same kind of pandering to evil..

that drives a good person that identifies with traditional republican values to hold his/her nose and vote republican.

We need to destroy the labels and find a candidate that is going to be strong enough to lead us out of this fucking mess our inaction has gotten us into.

Im going to vote for the best candidate, because I cant afford to let things like party determine the future of our country. We are way beyond letterman's jackets and school colors.

[bloodyjack]

74. i dont know, the way i see it, voting never changed anything . . .

on an individual basis, at least

and you don't need to vote to have an opinion anyway

[Tactical Progressive]

66. Your kind already gave us 3000 dead in the WTC

and another hundred thousand dead in Iraq.

I can see why you think you deserve an encore.

Go wash the blood off your hands first.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

79. Wow-I didn't know Sean Hannity posted on here

or are you Michael Savage.

invoking 9-11 to defend Hillary's corporatism-truly shameless.

[LSK]

68. Enjoy the GOP

Hope you like more laws like the bankrupcty law, more cities destroyed like NOLA, more wars for peak oil, no chance in hell of national health care.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

81. you'll get the same w/ hillary

which is my point

[johnaries]

73. IF I HAVE TO, I'll vote Hillary. I won't like it.

I've said this before:
Normally, I am a "vote your heart; vote for the person" Independent voter. Even though I live in the South, I never had much respect for "Yellow Dog Democrats."

I don't feel I have that luxury, anymore.

the Republican Machine has gotten so out of control (especially with re-districting) that I will do whatever is neccessary to take them out of power.

Even if that means *ugh* voting for Hill.

It's actually a very small sacrifice, when you look at what's at stake. When you look t the alternative (I never thought those words would come out of my mouth, but, there they are :puke:)

Suck it up! If our troops can fight in Iraq without body armor, we can do this.

But let me end by saying; DRAFT AL GORE 2008! :woohoo:

[WildEyedLiberal]

75. McCain is a COMPLETE whore

There is absolutely NOTHING redeeming about John McCain. He's a sellout far-right whore who will jump through hoops for his masters.

[bloodyjack]

77. I absolutely agree

McCain has no guts whatsoever!

[liberaltrucker]

76. So....

You'd prefer another Chimpie to a Dem lite
That's what you'd accomplish by your vote.

But that's an argument in a couple years.

[Jack_DeLeon]

84. I'll do my part in the primary....

to make sure that doesnt happen, hopefully most Democratic Party members do the same.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

85. This a golden opportunity-the US is fed up with conservatism

this is the chance for an FDR takes the reins from hoover type of paradigm shift and the DLC wants to give us HILLARY?!?!

sorry that aint the prescription for this illness. if you want to keep it possible for another GOP demon to start this process again, we need someone else-not a complacent fence-sitter.

[bloodyjack]

86. i think this would be a good time to give up

(no text)

[Moderator]

87. Locking

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