Nonsense about the Border is just Cover for Pushing through "Guest Worker"

[norml]

Poll question: Nonsense about the Border is just Cover for Pushing through "Guest Worker"

Agree or Disagree?

[TahitiNut]

1. "Guest workers," L1 and H1B visas are ...

... nothing but an outright hijacking of the laws of our land to serve the interests of cheap-labor corporatists.

[FreakinDJ]

6. You couldn't have cited a better example

ie: the Silicon Valley Electronics industry lobbied succesfully to introduce H1B visa program. Which effectly reduced the need for American educated Electronics Engineers.

Imagine a 5 years degree program that only pays 35K starting salery. I can make more sweeping floors

[TahitiNut]

21. After 15 years in the valley, I couldn't begin to count the number of

... folks I knew were working on L1 or H1B's ... and working longer hours for less pay. At one time, my closest circle of friends included a white male Canadian citizen, his wife, an Asian female Canadian citizen, and my fiancee, a female Japanese citizen. All three of them were in the U.S. on some form of work visa ... and I was the one who got laid off! (I earned more.)

One of the last jobs I had was the manager of a technical support group of nine software engineers. When I took the job, there were eight and two (25%) were on H1B visas. I soon discovered that there were some VERY sleazy politics where one of the H1B engineers (a totally vicious person) was in league with my boss (there was something strange going on - perhaps sexual) and working to get rid of two engineers, both of whom were female and one of whom was a lesbian (activist and open, but not "in your face" about it on the job). Both were natural born citizens. I opted to do my best to preserve their jobs and create a positive, productive working environment. My boss hired a third H1B visa worker into my group. Due to the hostile working environment (with me as the exception), the lesbian (who was a terrific, if outspoken and honest, individual contributor) sought and found another position outside the company. The other citizen (a female with some private 'medical' issues), got manipulated into some behavior that was very destructive. As a result of my 'failure' to fire her, I was let go at the end of my 6-month "probationary" period and the H1B political beast was given my job - and the citizen was fired (as she deserved, actually, it turned out). I don't think I've ever seen a more perverted and corrupt small organization inside a larger one. Two other senior members of my staff resigned the next day after I was terminated. (Even though I advised against it.)

Those are merely two of the many anecdotal and scuttlebutt situations I became aware of in the valley. The corruption and exploitation of workers was appalling.

[FreakinDJ]

22. So much for the Myth H1Bs do not take American's jobs

But so much as post here about the abuses of these programs being used to displace American workers and you have a wealth of people claiming your racist.

I run a LEGAL IMMIGRATION advice website. We are only too aware of how abused the H1b program is and how it is used to drive down the wages of Silicon Valley. Folks don't realize or are too afraid to say they know full well H5A is merely another assault on working class Americans. This time they are going after the blue collar jobs full force.

Yes I received my degree in Electronics in 1981. Later went back and receive my Certification in Network Engineering. I realized in 1989 the Electronics Industry was diseased with H1B and downsizing and got the "Flock out" of there. Been supervising the construction of Power Plants and Factory Automation projects for the last 16 years. Can't tell you the number of "Pioneered" Control Systems designs I been a part of.

Now I'm setting at home, looking for the next industry opportunity – purposefully hiding the job offers in Iraq from my wife

[TahitiNut]

23. What just blows my mind is how folks "conveniently" pigeon-hole

... such perspectives as racist or xenophobic. Absolutely nothing could be further from the truth, imho. The single most attractive feature of living in the Bay Area was the diversity, for me. In my first example, it should be noted that one of the H1B people was my former fiancee - a Japanese citizen. Xenophobic? Ha! Racist? Ha! In my second example, one of the citizen engineers whose job was jeapordized was a black female - terrific woman! All three of the H1B engineers were white. Racist? Ha!

People who can't use their brains due to the interference of a jerking knee seem to populate both ends of the poltical spectrum.

[FreakinDJ]

24. Yes and my wife is a Filipino Architect

And I’m Latino.

So obviously I’m racist too!!!

That was the interesting part about the Clinton Economy. Regions of the country that were typically more racially tolerant then others, overwhelmingly had the “Lion’s share” of economic benefit.

My work took me all across the USA and it was evident, at least to me, diversity paid well.

But this proposed amnesty program is just as racist as what they claim those who oppose it to be. Why should we give one demographic or nationality privilege while ignoring others. Asians for generations have been suppressed and exploited yet no one is clamoring for their right to gain access to the “Holy Land”

Add to that when you look at immigration statistics of deportation for Felony convictions you can easily see cause for concerns

[PassingFair]

2. I believe that they set this entire "controversy" up, with the

help of the catholic church. Made it look like
a nominally "liberal" protest FOR amnesty or
AMNETY, if you will.

Their need for cheap labor is ravenous.

[Tom Joad]

3. What we need is full amnesty, and every worker with equal rights

so that every worker has full bargaining power.
If capitol is free to move, so must labor.


What's "amnety"?

[hogwyld]

5. Perfect point!

Let them in, let them stay, let them organize, and let them vote! We can then kiss off the puke party for generations!

[FreakinDJ]

7. Never happen

The fallacy of every woker being equal is a delusion

The H2Bs will still have the threat of employers cancelling their visa through firing them

[Warren Stupidity]

8. no we are much better chained up in our little fiefdoms

rented out to corporate elites for use as consumer-serfs. Yes yes chain up, fence up all the workers! Control them by dividing them, play one against the other and watch them beg for more control!

[Virginia Dare]

15. Throughout history...

these are the types of people who have traditionally been the ones to organize, ultimately improving working conditions for the entire society. The corporate rulers, via their puppets in Congress, are desperately attempting to stack the deck against this happening again.

[norml]

20. What they want are workers with no rights, no protections, no benefits,

no public services, and no vote.

[PassingFair]

25. "Amnety"

See: "Morans"

As seen on freeper protest signage.....

[Ravenseye]

4. Totally Disagree

The whole thing is cover for the Iraq War and other various incompetencies of this administration.

[Warren Stupidity]

9. DING DING DING We have a winner! nt

[norml]

11. They aren't linking the Iraq War with the Border, or with the "Illegals"

either in their propaganda, or in their legislation.

In every presentation they link their "Getting tough on the Borders/Illegals" with passing "Guest Worker".

That's not to say they don't want distractions, however in this case I believe there's a specific policy they're pushing for.

[Ravenseye]

12. bull

They don't really care. Anything that gets our eyes off Iraq and gets us arguing about something we've been arguing about for decades.

Hell they're so incompetent they're even doing this distraction so badly that their base is leaving them. Maybe...

Next up...Gay Marriage. 3 months from now the immigration debate will be long forgotten and everyone will be talking about Gay Marriage and how they want to pass a bill etc etc. It's all about the 2006 midterms and getting their base fired up. Maybe this whole immigration tack on the part of Bush is to take his sub 30% approval and the war and disconnect him from the congressmen and senators. So that when they are in full swing re-election the republicans can say "I'm against guest worker programs, i'm a real conservative." and get people to vote for them thinking "Yeah well the republicans are incompetent, but MY GUY is ok."

So the policy here is a distraction, froma distraction from a distraction.

[norml]

16. No, I think they actually want to get this legislation through,

because they've everything from the Duke Lacrosse Team, to Aruba for distractions.

[Warren Stupidity]

13. If the intention were to distract of course there would be no linkage.

That is the point. The administration is in serious trouble over lots of issues that it alone is responsible for, like the Iraq war. The point of pushing the immmigration non-issue is primarily to change the subject away from issues they have no 'play' on, to one that they do.

[norml]

17. Well then, I guess I can't talk about anything other than the war.

War War War War War War War War War War War War War War War War War War

[Warren Stupidity]

19. Oh talk all you want about immigration.

The point is to understand that the immigration non-issue is being used as a distraction. To the extent that people here on DU keep pushing this non-issue they are playing, knowningly or not, into the GOP strategy.

I know, lets get all involved in the holloway case or american idol. The stupid war is so boring. I see no difference between posting on this non issue on posting on the holloway case.

Why play their game?

[norml]

18. My point is to illustrate the con they are running on this issue

that is, seeming to oppose the flood of cheap labor, while pushing for a change in law that would increase the flood.

It's a valid issue to be discussed in itself.

[winston61]

26. Non-issue is a key word here

If you think the race card does not work, just give Jesse Helms a call. Get the southern red neck base all stirred up 'bout them uppity ni***rs and watch 'em run, burning up the lines to the talk radio. What Iraq war? What fucked up economy? What corporate state? These Mezcans are violatin' our laws and we got to send 'em back to Mexico! No one ever lost an election by under estimating the dumb ass level of the public. Stir up racial divisions over a bullshit non-issue. The moron season is just getting started in D.C. I promise that by June this will be over and Rush and Hannity will be talking about the Gay marriage amendment. Mark my words. Get the servant class back in line and then we start beatin' up on them homos. I love this shit! Of course the gay amendment will fail, but that is the goal, get the democrats to vote no on the amendment and then out on the hustings to call them fag lovers and marriage haters.

[norml]

27. Jesse Helms

Jesse Helms
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Jesse Helms

Jesse Alexander Helms, Jr., (born October 18, 1921) is a former five-term Republican U.S. Senator from North Carolina and a former chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. He is widely considered one of the giants of the modern "Christian right." On April 2, 2006, Helms's wife of 63 years, Dorothy Jane "Dot" Coble Helms, announced that he is afflicted with dementia and had been moved to a convalescent facility near their Raleigh home. Mrs. Helms said that she visits him daily, and that he has some moments of lucidity. Helms made his last public appearance in September 2005.

snip

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Helms

[winston61]

10. I love this shit-

If you think this whole mess is not being run out of the west wing then guess again. These people will do anything to get attention away from Iraq and the economy. So what if it smacks of racism and xenophobia. Isn't that the rampart the repukes ALWAYS fall back on? There will be guest worker program, the paymasters for our Congressmen have already made sure of that. Now, speaking as a working man, I could say Hell yeah, put Pedro and Maria on a bus to Mexico today, that would be a great opportunity for me. I'd get me a pickup and a trailer and two or three lawn mowers and I'd get rich. You think middle class whites are going to mow their own yards? My wife could start a house cleaning business. Hell,even a nanny business It would suck for the customers that are used to paying nearly nothing for these services, but isn't America the land of opportunity? Supply and demand? Doesn't the rising tide lift all boats? Won't it just suck having to pay a living wage to your servants? Ah, stupid, spoiled Americans. We insist on having our cake and eating it too. Don't we get our panties in a wad when our ni***rs insist on being treated like human beings? We can spew the same old racist bullshit and then pretend we can hide behind an insistence on these 'people' obeying the 'law'. We want 'em here, but how dare they insist on fair treatment? Who do they think they are? Just because they are the backbone of the economy in states like Texas, what does that entitle them to?

[Virginia Dare]

14. This entire country was founded and built...

on the backs of slaves and immigrants, so what's changed? (I'm agreeing with your statement by the way)

[UTUSN]

28. Can I K&R more than once, as often as I want? n/t