On Casey Sheehan's grave lacking a marker......

[jojo54]

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/editorial/14643487.htm

I don't know anything about this Thomas Lipscomb, but it sounds like he's busting balls about Cindy not having a marker on her son's grave almost 2 years after his death.

>Cindy Sheehan says she was too broken-hearted to do anything but occasionally put flowers on her son's grave the first year. And perhaps she had some inner resistance to accepting a government gravestone from a Bush administration she detests. But she should remember that the stone doesn't come from one administration. It comes from the government of all of the American people who wish to honor her son's service.

The good news is that Casey Sheehan's father, Patrick, has had enough of this and has quietly arranged with a local monument company to erect a memorial. Wouldn't it be fitting if it were in place in time for Casey Sheehan's birthday, which this year once again falls on Memorial Day?<

[liberal N proud]

1. Many people wait several years before placing markers on loved ones graves

For what ever reason, they may not be ready to deal with it, or it is simply part of the healing process.
I know many people who have lost loved ones and wait a few years before having a permanent head stone placed on the graves.

[Buzz Clik]

2. Sheehan lost my interest some time ago...

When she snuggled up to Hugo Chavez and started her yammering to him about our immoral country, I lost interest.

[Stanchetalarooni]

5. Just what could be immoral about our country?

What was she saying about our country? Did I miss something?

[Buzz Clik]

8. Apparently, you did

It's not that I think our country is pure and saintly, and certainly our administration is not, but airing the dirty laundry on an international stage with the likes of Chavez -- puke.

[Thtwudbeme]

11. ummm yeah....like our immorality is a big secret.

please.

[Buzz Clik]

20. You're focusing on a single word, and the wrong one.

Would you like to try to justify Sheehan's photo op with Chavez?

[Thtwudbeme]

22. I WOULD have had my picture taken

with Chavez...from Wikipedia:

Domestically, Chávez has launched Bolivarian Missions to combat disease, illiteracy, malnutrition, poverty, and other social ills. Abroad, Chávez has acted against the Washington Consensus by supporting alternative models of economic development, and has advocated cooperation among the world's poor nations, especially those in Latin America.

The people that are against him are basically Latin American Rich Conservatives...what is your problem with him?

[Buzz Clik]

31. Very convenient job of text selection:

Continuing from Wikipedia:

"Chávez has been severely criticized, mostly by Venezuela's middle and upper classes. He has been accused of electoral fraud, severe human rights violations, assaulting democracy in favor of dictatorship, and political repression,<5><6><7> and has survived both a brief 2002 coup and a failed 2004 recall referendum due to his enormous support amongst the poor that represent the vast majority of his constituents.<8><9><10> Whether viewed as a liberator or authoritarian demagogue, Chávez remains one of the most complex, controversial, and high-profile figures in modern Latin American politics."

What a great guy.

[Warren Stupidity]

34. The elites hate him, oh my he must be terrible!

The attempt by the CIA to grow a middle class revolt against the democratically elected government failed miserably. Chavez is hugely popular. The wikipedia content you cited is just repeating the usual bullshit and pointing to more bullshit to back it up. For example he may have been accused of election fraud, however the international monitors accepted the election.

[Buzz Clik]

36. The middle class is suddenly the elites?

Are you intentionally trying to mimic Karl Marx? Next you'll be spouting off about the intelligentsia.

[catnhatnh]

38. Not in YOUR case......n/t

[Buzz Clik]

39. I suppose there's an insult buried in there...

So, am I not middle class, not elite, or both?

[Warren Stupidity]

57. Not a member of the intelligensia. Duh.

As is now self evident by your inability to figure this out.

Nice job hijacking the thread though. The topic is Cindy Sheehan's horrible disrespect for her dead son as evidenced by some rightwing asshats spew. One of many 'why we must hate Cindy' posts that gets put up here on a regular basis. You of course re-introduced the 'she posed with that evil commie chavez' thread. Good job.

[Warren Stupidity]

56. Ugh. This subthread is nonsense.

There was no middle class revolt against Chavez. There was a well funded CIA sponsored attempt to unseat the popularly elected Chavez by force and fraud and disinformation. All of these attempts failed as Chavez is quite popular both with the poor and the miniscule middle class, but not with the elites, who are quite upset at not being allowed to pillage Venezuela as much as they would like to.

In your case you can rest assured that I will never be spouting off about the intelligensia.

[Buzz Clik]

66. Your own comments betray you.

You turned a reasonable discussion into a personal attack because I don't like Sheehan and I don't like Hugo Chavez?

I'm sorry, friend, but you remind me of the rightwing zealots who call me a seditious traitor for criticizing Bush. You're nothing but the leftwing equivalent of the people and attitudes I really cannot abide.

[yankeedem]

65. There is no middle class in Venezuela

Which is precisely the problem that Chavez is trying to solve. I probably wouldn't agree with some of his tactics, but he has done more for the lower 98% of society than other leaders have combined. Which includes the US.

[Warren Stupidity]

23. Yeah sure I will.

He was the host of the conference she was attending. To not stand with him for a photo op would have been rude. In addition you are assuming that there is something wrong with Chavez, and I reject your assumption and the right wing bullshit behind it.

[Buzz Clik]

26. Gotta love your attitude

I question the actions of an antiwar icon, and I'm spouting rightwing bullshit?

Embracing Hugo Chavez is bad business. If the Dems as a party are into the archaic "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" philosophy, then we'll be sitting on the outside forever.

[Thtwudbeme]

28. oh, lord god. Chavez is trying to do the same for his country that we on

DU talk about for this country.

Explain your problem with him to me, please--then maybe there is a conversation.

Otherwise, you DO sound as if you are spouting off capitalistic horseshit.

Thank you.

[Divernan]

25. That awful Chavez - helping the poor & kicking out Big Oil!

Sarcasm of course.

[Buzz Clik]

27. So you support nationalization of American countries abroad?

You've got to be kidding.

[Warren Stupidity]

32. "American countries"heh interesting slip there buzzclik.

I assume you meant american economic interests, in particular you probably are referring to the Venzuelan government's move to nationalize, by taking a majority interest in, their oil resources, principally Petroleos de Venezuela. Yes this would cost Exxon Mobil and ConocoPhillips a bit as they would be reduced to a minority stake in the corporation. Sure, I support that. Why not?

This is being done in an orderly and legal fashion, and is being done to redress corrupt deals made, sometimes directly in violation of existing Venezuelan law, by previous regimes.

The resources of Venezuela are actually being used to benefit the Venezuelan people. I realize that you find that a horrifying development. Are you also happy with the huge windfall profits that have been bestowed on our Big Oil recently while you suffer at the pump?

[Buzz Clik]

35. Yes, it was a typo... "companies" n/t

[Spazito]

55. Ummm, Venezuela's government is not nationalizing

American "countries" or, as you corrected "companies". They are, however, taking back control of their own resources from American countries, oops, companies. American countries/companies are still welcome to do business there but they now have to pay their fair share of taxes, etc, instead of enriching themselves at the expense of the Venezuelan people.

[Buzz Clik]

69. You forgot the period after etc, chief.

Hammering someone for grammatical errors and typos is a bad game to start. It is endless and pointless unless you're perfect.

[Thtwudbeme]

10. What's immoral about our country? How big of a list do you want?

People living under bridges.

An entire region devasted by a hurricane, with no relief in sight for many of those people.

People living in Fema trailors in FL waiting for the next big storm which will probably be within 12 weeks.

Our schools are shot to shit; our infrastructure is crumbing while we build a monumental palace to the death of humanity...like a sad, sick Taj Mahal in Iraq that will cost billions.

Entire parts of Asia that will never recover from what we did to them in the fiascos of Korea and Vietnam.

Want me to keep going?

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

14. Something tells me she never "held your interest" in the first place.

It seems your main "interest" is to post a snarky response. MKJ

[Buzz Clik]

29. You'd be wrong.

I very much supported Sheehan in her grieving mom role at Camp Casey. I cheered her defiance with her t-shirt at the State of the Union Address. But ragging on the US on an international stage with the likes of Chavez? No way.

[Missy M]

33. I don't think Cindy Sheehan's grief as a mother is playing...

a role, as you imply. Have you ever lost a loved one to war? A parent never stops grieving. What are the "likes of Chavez"? He is a man trying to help the vast poor population of his country. I also believe Cindy Sheehan has the right to speak her mind no matter where she is.

[Buzz Clik]

37. Of course she has the right...

Unfortunately, it reflects badly.

Within the confines of DU, applauding all the actions of Cindy Sheehan without a filter works fine. However, when you step outside this friendly environment, justifying all of her actions becomes a bit more difficult.

[catnhatnh]

41. DU is not "a filter"......

and the fact that you believe it is tells volumes....

[Buzz Clik]

43. Right. Not a filter.

How many right-of-center viewpoints are represented here? (zero)
How much tolerance is there for non-liberal comments? (zero)

Yeah. No filter.

[tabasco]

46. Please inform us why you hate Chavez so much.

You have not stated one fact in support of your position, other than a statement that others have accused him of wrongdoing.

I don't think Cindy Sheehan gives a damn about your support.

You sound like part of the problem to me.

Our national officials have done infinitely more to damage our country's reputation and stature than a grieving mother.

Your outrage is feigned. You think what they tell you to think.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

64. Good luck getting an accurate and thoughtful list of reasons from

this one.

Knee jerk, no substance, no understanding of the foundation of reasoned debate. Rally round the prez and all that.

:hi: MKJ

[Buzz Clik]

67. Welcome to the Left Wing of the Free Republic

Superb.

I spend a lot of time defending my fellow Democrats as being open minded and willing to debate issues. How silly of me. I made two comments: I've lost interest in Cindy Sheehan and I don't like Hugo Chavez, and suddenly you folks cannot say enough hideous things.

I think I'll leave this thread to the bottom feeders who quite simply have lost all perspective and objectivity.

[Skelington]

54. spot on BuzzClik,

Cindy started out strong, believable and magnetic. Now she is polarizing, star struck, full of herself ....and ignored. The Chavez photos ended her ability to unite anybody, she has already drifted off into obscurity.

[Buzz Clik]

70. And it is a shame.

I was very supportive of her early on. Her Camp Casey was dynamite and a great way to spoil Shrub's August vacation. But then came the celebrities and high profile opportunists. And then the speech on the Mall. And the book.

I don't believe she would have wandered down this path by herself. She seems to have been horribly misguided and, as you say, has now drifted off into obscurity.

[earth mom]

53. I am fed up with attacks on Cindy. You need to read this.

:grr:

Cindy Sheehan Responds to Congressman's Attacks
    By Cindy Sheehan
    t r u t h o u t | Letter

    Saturday 01 April 2006

    Congressman Kingston,


<snip>
Second of all, I have never called "terrorists" freedom fighters. I have called the resistance fighters who killed Casey such, but they are fighting to get the occupying forces out of their country and have a legitimate right to wage a resistance against occupiers. I don't like that they are killing our children - for God's sake, they killed my oldest child, my sweet and wonderful Casey. However, our government is committing war crimes and crimes against humanity against the people of Iraq. Have you heard of white phosphorous? Have you heard of torture? Have you heard of Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo? Have you heard about our Constitution and the Geneva Conventions?

Have you also heard that Saddam had nothing to do with the tragedy of 9/11 and that he had no WMD? How can you support a liar and his policies that are draining our precious life blood, depleting our military, sucking our treasury dry and have harmed, almost beyond repair, the people and land of the Gulf States hit by Hurricane Katrina? Have you heard that Osama bin Ladin is still at large and two countries, Iraq and Afghanistan, that had nothing to do with 9/11 are devastated? I hope they can recover from George's brand of "freedom and democracy."

As to you having a problem with me meeting with Hugo Chavez, who survived a coup that was orchestrated by the Bush administration and has been democratically elected to his office 8 times? You can't pick and choose to support only the Democracies that agree with George Bush. I don't support everything that President Chavez stands for, but his people love him, and he is truly trying to make things better for the 80 percent of the people who were in poverty when he took over; has has reduced that figure to 37 percent. He is stealing from the rich to help the poor, whereas George Bush and his policies do the opposite. Hugo Chavez is not anti-American - he is anti-George Bush, and I have to agree with him on that. He has provided low cost heating fuel to underprivileged citizens in our own country and has donated at least $40,000 to the various aid organizations in the Gulf States.

Did you have a problem with George Bush kissing the sheik from Saudi Arabia when 16 of the terrorists that flew airplanes into our buildings on 9/11 came from Saudi Arabia? Did you have a problem with Donald Rumsfeld shaking Saddam's hand and selling him weapons that are now killing our children in Iraq? Do you have a problem with the fact that since your party's devastating invasion of Iraq, members of the so-called "Axis of Evil" have become more powerful and even more dangerous to America? Did you have a problem with George Bush wanting to sell our ports to Dubai, when they are one of the only countries on earth that recognize the Taliban? Did you have a problem with the bin Laden family being flown out of the United States days after 9/11, when our own citizens could not fly and many of us were trapped far from our homes ourselves? Did you have a problem with George, et al, ignoring all of the intelligence reports before 9/11 that said that terrorists were planning on "flying airplanes" into our buildings?

<snip>

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/040306A.shtml

[Amaya]

58. what shit...

nt

[SeveneightyWhoa]

62. I'm sorry, but..

..what the fuck is your problem with Hugo Chavez?

The worst thing he's done is criticize Bush. Does that offend you? If so, why are you on DU?

[madmom]

3. so what's the big deal? This is another private matter they have to

stick their noses into. Do they want a marker so they can visit the grave or desecrate it?

[Scout1071]

4. This shit is so old. Please stop posting here.

Cindy has explained time and again why this is the case and frankly, it's none of our business.

[Freddie Stubbs]

6. The article is actually dated today

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/editorial/14643487.htm

[Scout1071]

12. So what? It's been posted here many, many, many times over

the last year. It's a Freeper talking point. I'm not saying that you are a Freeper, but just asking that this type of repeat info not be posted here - especially when it's designed to make Cindy Sheehan look bad.

She didn't want her son's marker to be desecrated or to become a protest point. I can't blame her.

[Freddie Stubbs]

15. I didn't post it here

And this is the first that have seen this story. It isn't like the original poster is posting an article that is weeks or months old. The article was published today.

[jojo54]

21. I posted this. Jojo54 and I am NOT a freeper!!!

In my 31 years as an eligible voter, I have never voted for a Repuke. I just posted this because I didn't know anything about Thomas Lipscomb and it sounded to me like another freeper attack on Cindy Sheehan.

I too, had thought this subject had lost it's charm, but as long as the media keeps bringing it up, then the anti-war side gets attention.

[Scout1071]

30. My point is that we don't have to keep giving attention to it.

I didn't think you are a Freeper, I just said this is a Freeper talking point. I'm sorry that www.philly.com has seen fit to put this junk on media blast.

I find it offensive.....not you.

This is my last post in this thread because I want it to die so that important issues can stay on the front page.

[Thtwudbeme]

7. I agree with you....kind of. She has become a celebrity because of her

son's horrible death, and the fight to try to end this stupid war.

That makes her son's grave pretty public, I am afraid.

I have never read her reasons, but I am assuming I might feel the same way she does.

That said, I think the money that would have been spent on a rock is better spent on the prospect of peace.

[Scout1071]

13. Exactly. She thinks her sons grave would become a public

focal point if people knew where it was and she believes it would be vandalized. She wants to keep his resting place private and I don't blame her for one second.

This talking point is disgusting to me.

[Thtwudbeme]

16. Well, Republicans and Republican Lights can be kind of trashy and nosy

it's really sad.

They claim to love rugged individualists...until they see one...then they hate them.

They want smaller government, but support this huge unweildy beast that Bushco has handed them on a silver platter.

Oopsss I am off on a rant.

Just remember what I wrote when you read the garbage about Cindy: most of her detracters are trashy, tactless, and nosy.

[pnwmom]

49. I agree. The other thing that people are overlooking:

Why have people been assuming that this is somehow Cindy's sole responsibility? The article says that the father had finally "had enough of this" and took care of it "quietly." Why didn't he do it in the first place? Couldn't HE have done it a long time ago?

[elehhhhna]

9. I ALWAYS judge a Mothers Love for her child by the

SIZE of the HEADSTONE. Don't you?























sarc/off

[Marnieworld]

42. Did junior's sister get a headstone?

I can't remember her name but I read recently that * had a younger sister who died from leukemia when she was 3. Her parents donated her body to science, went golfing the next day and apparently never mentioned her again.

Bring this up if anyone questions Sheehan as a mother. Her entire life is devoted to his memory as opposed to someone the RW reveres who prefers to forget.

[CatWoman]

61. her name was Robin

[Marnieworld]

63. thanks

We should try and remember her since her own family doesn't. I still shudder to think of Babs as a mother. Hell I just shudder to think of her period. ;)

[AlCzervik]

17. when my mother died it took well over a year to get a headstone--

but i didn't need to worry about her stone being vandalized which i'm sure Cindy Sheehan does have to worry about.

[atommom]

18. If I were Cindy, I'd tell this man to go Cheney himself.

A lot of RWers have been going on about the headstone issue for awhile now. They want to punish Cindy for her anti-war views, so they keep flogging this story. Is it any of their business? No. Does it somehow discredit her as a person? No.

[dogday]

19. Maybe it is the finality of the action

of putting a marker down that makes it so hard..

[DinahMoeHum]

24. Did you ever consider the possibility that a marked gravesite

could be an invitation to desecration? especially from those who have a real beef with Cindy?
Just asking.

:shrug:

[LibDemAlways]

40. None of anybody's business.

Lipscomb ought to be ashamed of himself for bringing this up. And the mention of the cash the family received upon their son's death is just beyond the pale. I'm sure Cindy (and every family who has suffered such a loss) would gladly give back every penny if it meant having their loved ones back.
What an insufferable ass this guy is.

[The Stranger]

44. Thomas Lipscomb is beneath contempt for attacking a woman whose son was

torn from her to serve in a lying, hatemongering, bloodlusting, murdering, torturing war for Thomas Lipscomb's corporate handlers.

This is no editorial -- it is a smear. Lipscomb should be fired immediately.

[misternormal]

45. Her son... Her business... End of story... n/t

[Bluebear]

47. What, so his neaderthal colleagues can vandalize it?

Maybe Fred Phelps can hold a candlelight vigil there?

Many many graves go unmarked for years before a family can deal with it emotionally. It's nobody else's concern, so fuck off and mind your own business, Lipscomb.

[Cleita]

52. Good point! Thanks for bringing it up. n/t

[Libby2]

48. It's none of his fucking business

Maybe she's afraid the lunatics on the right will desecrate it.

[earth mom]

50. Lipscomb-just a reTHUG trash talking. Read this from Cindy you assh*le.

:puke:

A Markerless Grave in Vacaville

By Cindy Sheehan

I am so tired of the Rovian, heartless, and ignorant smear machine attacking me and my family at every turn of my back. The latest abomination in their scrutiny of my life is the fact that Casey has no "tombstone." As if it was anybody's business but Casey's family. I am sure every last person who has a problem with this has buried a child and they know what we are going through.

<snip>

I will tell the world why Casey has no marker yet. In the first place, does anyone who is attacking me know how Casey was brought home from Iraq? We picked him up in the United loading dock in a cardboard box and he was off-loaded into a hearse without one honor guard. We had to wait for about a half hour on a curb near the United freight area while we waited for his one escort that rode from Dover Air Force Base in a seat, while Casey was treated as an over-sized piece of luggage. Has anybody held their other sobbing children while sitting on a curb in San Francisco waiting for the remains of their big brother to be carried over to the dock by a forklift?

Our so-called, illegitimate president has never attended a funeral nor can families see the pictures of their loved ones as they are hauled like freight with flags on them from an immoral war zone. WE don't see them because Mama Bush doesn't want to "bother her pretty mind" with the images. America doesn't want to be bothered, either. We had a Casualty Officer who abandoned us when our mortuary refused to pay the cemetery and told us that the "government sent the money to the mortuary, so now it is your problem. You may have to sue the mortuary." Our government discards and dishonors its own.

<snip>
For the first year after Casey was killed, I didn't want to believe it. I didn't want to place a TOMBstone on my son's grave. I didn't want one more marble proof that my son was dead. I couldn't even call where he was buried a "cemetery," I had to call it "Casey's Park." I placed fresh flowers in the cup every week and journaled there almost on a daily basis, and often laid on it and fell asleep and dreamed of my needlessly killed son. Have any of these people who claim that I am pissing on my son's grave even visited him? Have they visited the grave of any soldier needlessly or senselessly killed in George's war of choice for oil and profit? Have they sobbed uncontrollably for my first born who shouldn't even need a gravestone? No, all they want to do is attack a mother who wants to prevent other people from having to bury their own child. They want to perpetuate a war that has already killed many thousands of our fellow human beings for absolutely nothing.

<snip>

It is too important. No more needless gravestones. No more wasted lives.

:cry:
 
http://www.michaelmoore.com/mustread/index.php?id=627

[Cleita]

51. Isn't this very personal?

My grandmother's grave didn't have a marker for years. Finally one of my relatives who became rich got one. The rest of us were busy looking after the living and couldn't handle the expense. We all knew where her grave was to bring flowers. She didn't need a marker to those who loved her.

[bleedingheart]

59. My Grandmother didn't buy a monument for my Grandfather

my mother bought it for him after he had already been dead for over 15 years....

[Rose Siding]

60. Why's she taking heat for that and not the dad?

If he'd wanted to, the father could have done that soon enough to suit Lipscomb.

Afaic, Cindy's life is a fine memorial to her son.

[lonestarnot]

68. Casey was not his Father's son! He was his Mother's son! I don't hear

that freak standing up for his life that was wasted on a lie!