Just talked to my conservative son and there's hope for us liberals.......

[Minnesota Libra]

....and I just had to share the good news.

Of course we got the family business and all the family news out of the way and eventually talk turned political.

My son mentioned how much he hated Bush and then nearly put a knife through my heart by saying, "If McCain runs I'll vote for him in a hot second." I decided to be a tad sarcastic and said, "OMG son, where did I go wrong, what did I forget to teach you?" Of course my son went on about Democrats always wanting to raise taxes and I was ready for that one. I replied with, "Excuse me son, but Bush gave out tax breaks recently and I'll bet you didn't get one did you? Oh, but Bush sure remembered his rich friends by giving the richest of the rich a nice big tax break. Wouldn't you have liked to have one of those things called a tax break?" He admitted he wasn't too happy about that and I went on to remind him that McCain has been kissing up to Bush for the last six years and advised my son not to hold his breath hoping McCain would be any different. Then my son mentioned, "Well at least McCain served his time in the military unlike Bush." So I went on to mention that even though Kerry would never be my first choice for President he did serve his time in the military and went on to mention my first choice, Gore, would hopefully run." My son then surprised me and said, "If Kerry or Gore either one runs I'd vote for either one of them even though they'd raise my taxes." Oh I was ready for this boy. I replied with, "Son, I've always told you that life has a habit of turning our lives upside down for absolutely no good reason, it just happens. Being a Dad yourself now you know exactly what I'm talking about. Now wouldn't it be nice if there were some social programs for the working middle class to fall back on when life just plain messes with you?" He replied that yes that would be nice. I brought up the issue of his wife (my daughter-in-law) and the medical bills for her and the baby that they are still paying off. I went on to mention how nice it would have been if he could have gotten some help with those medical bills instead of still being in debt two years later. He then said that "would have been really nice". I then told him,"The only way we are going to get some of those social programs back is to pump some money into the government and not give it all to the richest of the rich. The Democrats will use that money we pump into the government to create programs for the working middle class and also pay down the national debt. That way China will hopefully not own this country lock stock and barrel." I then said, "Son, I guess your vote this November and again in 08 will show just how much you want to see programs created for you, the working class of this country. Or how much more you want to see the rich get even richer and us borrow even more from China." My son then said, "Well, if you put it that way maybe I'll have to give the Democrats a chance."

So, I'm going to keep plugging away and by November I'm going to have this boy a raging Democrat.

Comments or ideas anyone?

[joemurphy]

1. You're doing fine. You don't need any help from us.

[Minnesota Libra]

18. Thank you for the compliment that...............

.....helps a lot. :hug:

[magellan]

2. Good going, MN Libra!

Did your son say why he hates Bush**? You could always work those points back into the conversation and contrast it with the Dem position on each issue.

Slowly, slowly, catchy monkey....

[Minnesota Libra]

4. Yes, my son was in the military and he commented that he..................

....hated the way Bush was using the military and that Bush hadn't served even in the National Guard. So yes that issue was up for discussion too. We are a BIG military family so if a person has a chance and is supposed to serve but doesn't then in our family that person is not to be respected ever.

[magellan]

11. Hmm

Has your son said or have you asked if he would allow his children to serve under the neocons, seeing the bloody mess they've made of Iraq (and perhaps, shortly, Iran)? Is he even aware of their agenda (maintaining world dominance through pre-emptive use of the military) and that they've taken over the GOP?

[Minnesota Libra]

14. I've got news for you, it isn't just the republicans who believe..........

.....in that world domination thing. Liberals also believe in the idea and actively work toward bringing about a world domination for all countries. It might shock you to see how many Liberals are members of the Trilateral Commission.

[magellan]

20. Not news to me

But their methods aren't the same as the neocons', and mentioning it to your son would be counter-productive to your ambition.

[ginnyinWI]

3. that was great!

Congrats for getting him to listen to you that long. You explained it in very personal terms--that's the way to do it. :)

[MadMaddie]

5. Fantastic....you handled it wonderfully....we have to keep

coming back to the average American impact....what has this Administration done for the Average American....Nada, nothing, zilch...he only cares about his rich friends and the zeolots.....he is the out of touch President..he doesn't know what the average American goes through....He has run the country like has run every business he owned into the ground....except this time American soldiers lives, American citizens, and citizens around the world are paying for his failure...

Keep up the good work!!

[GaYellaDawgDem]

6. Thanks ML for some good news...

on the other hand I still have my work cut out for me. On a recent family outing my brother and I started to get into a political discussion that went downhill fast when he resurrected that Oval Office BJ from over 10 years ago. He didn't have much else other than what he hears from his fellow military officer buddies (such as how * can ignore whatever laws he wants because he claims to be the president). I knew early on that I need to find a different approach...it is encouraging to know that others are willing to reconsider their wayward path!

Thanks again and keep up the good work! GYDD

[Minnesota Libra]

7. Here's what I say to people about Clinton's Oval Office BJ............

....I just tell them that having seen a "BJ Democrat worried about the average working American" next to a "Born Again tax breaks to the richest of the rich Christian" I'll take the BJ Democrat any time. Then I go on to mention the fact that the world respected our White House BJ President and absolutely despises our tax break born again Christian.

[GaYellaDawgDem]

8. I thought about that...

but wasn't fast enough to recall how high Clinton's ratings were at that time. I was just astounded that someone in my family, who was raised by the same parents as I, would stoop to dredging up something like that when we have who we're dealing with now. I do need to work on my "calm factor" when talking politics so that I can nick away point by point as mentioned above. I just get so worked up when folks, especially family, rely on old news and totally neglect current events or excuse them "because we're at 'war'". I should of also mentioned a good bumper sticker I once saw - "When Clinton lied, nobody died". I'll keep working on this!

Thanks for a comeback that I'll work into the discussion!

[leesa]

24. I never knew men hated blow jobs so much until Clinton had one!

Funny.

[schrodingers_cat]

28. Harrrrrr!!!

Good one, leesa:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[orwell]

9. This Government...

...is bankrupt both financially and morally, a perfect reflection of it’s clown town citizenry. Whoever is left to clean up the elephant dung after the BushCorp Parade of Imbeciles will be left with precious little ammunition to address the coming implosion of the debt bubble. “Programs” will be the last thing on the agenda.

At best, the so-called miracle economy of these clowns, built wholly on debt and foreign financing rather than the so-called tax cuts, will need a tourniquet to stop the bleeding. Of course, the inevitable collapse will be blamed on the poor fall guy/girl with the dung-encrusted shovel by our so-called “liberal media.”

It’s going to get really ugly…

[alfredo]

10. Bring up all the constitutional amendments the Republicans push.

Ask him why are they always wanting to change our constitution? Didn't they swear to defend our constitution?

[Minnesota Libra]

15. That's a good one - I'll remember that one for next time because..........

......in our family we definitely believe in the flag and our Constitution. Thanks for the idea.:hug:

[alfredo]

21. When the Republicans took over congress in 1994*, within weeks

there were 147 proposed constitutional amendments. None of them made it, but the fact that so many Republican lawmakers have issues with our Constitution gives one reason to doubt their loyalty to our Constitution.

*Contract with (on) America.

[johnnypneumatic]

12. about McCain, you could have mentioned how he and * ate cake

and did nothing while New Orleans drowned

[renate]

13. your son is obviously susceptible to reason, unlike many Repubs

Good for you!

And seriously, having read earlier today a thread about a family that is still, even in these 29% days, torn apart by politics, I send extra :applause: for you and your son for being able to talk like adults about these things.

[Minnesota Libra]

17. OMG, I taught my kids from the time they could first talk to..............

....pick everything apart and question everything including me.

In our house there were certain rules (no drugs, no gangs, show respect for each other, finish school) that were NEVER up for discussion so the message was "don't even go there with me". Everything else depended on the circumstances. I told my kids if they wanted to question my word on something they had better made it a convincing argument and be able to show where and why I should relent on an issue. So they learned early on to frame an argument properly, show respect while doing it, and know their facts. I learned early on that I had some damn smart kids on my hands who kept me on my toes constantly.

Those childhood lessons have proven useful when discussing politics or religion too. We can discuss the most heated of issues and even raise our voices to make a point and yet we don't loose focus of the fact that we also respect each other enough to leave time for thought and wiggle room.

[Hubert Flottz]

16. Raising your children the right way, I've found...

is a life long road!

[tlsmith1963]

19. That's Exactly the Way it Needs to Be Explained

Why the leaders of our party won't explain it that way, I don't know. People still think taxes are bad. They don't realize that they can get you out of a jam if you get into one. Maybe we need to do the job the Democratic leadership isn't doing. We need to explain what taxes are actually used for.

Tammy

[rman]

22. It would be nice if the poor and the working poor could also benefit from

tax funded social programs. Though i don't really think you purposefully excluded them from the story.

[Postman]

23. Get him to read Howard Zinn....

"Declarations of Independence" (now titled "Passionate Declarations")

"A Peoples History Of The United States"

Listen to Amy Goodman's "Democracy Now" program @ democracynow.org

Stay away from the idiotic, mind-numbing, rightwing media, read more alternative points of view.

[ms liberty]

25. Bravo!

:applause:

You're doin' just fine!

[YOY]

26. I've had the same conversation in reverse with my father

Mine didn't work... He just loves his Bill O'Reiley...

[warrens]

27. The biggest tax break a working person can get

Is to wipe out the national debt. The Repukes always run up as much debt as they can for giveaways to their wealthy supporters, but the real reason is to tie up what tax dollars there are in interest payments so they can gut social services. They just plain hate seeing the government help anyone but the upper class.

I call them the Wolverine Party. Wolverines, after a kill, will eat until they're gorged. Then they piss on the leftovers so no one else can eat them.

[sendero]

29. Well done..

...great job of telling it is, and keeping it at the right level of contention!

People are coming around, I really believe that. The Republican party is well on it's way to finding the limits of what propaganda can accomplish.

[RedStateShame]

30. Now that I read that, I'm glad

you didn't put him in an orphange. But you better watch how he votes in 2008, or it's cold gruel and singalongs about rough living for that punk!!

[rucky]

31. Alex Keaton always came around by the end of the episode.

If you brought him up the same way you talked to him in that one conversation, he has no choice but to give into reason.

[Ganja Ninja]

32. You can't say you hate Bush and then go out and vote GOP ...

all over again. Conservatives are trying to blame the player for the game plan. They've been nodding and smiling at everything he's done in the last 4 1/2 years. How can they come back now and act as if the flaw was in the man and not the movement. Voting Republican is like dialing the wrong phone number over and over again. You're going to get the same result no matter how many times you try.

[Catamount]

33. Great job, Dad! You explained it very well!

K&R

[Cha]

34. I gotta toast ya!

:toast: I'm proud to say my son is a raging Liberal!

[Jade Fox]

35. It never fails to astonish me......

what people are willing to put up with to save a few hundred bucks in taxes. I'm not addressing your son in particular, but it seems for a lot of people that is the ONLY thing they care about. Never mind that it's kind of selfish, but it's so short-sighted! Really, how long does it take most of us to go through a few hundred bucks--those bucks that so many people seem willing to sell their souls for. I guess that "Freedom Isn't Free" line doesn't apply here to these folks.

My objection to taxation is how wastefully my taxes are spent, and how little real say I have in how they are spent.