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GWB Impeachment - Talk of the town

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SushiFan Donating Member (309 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 11:37 PM
Original message
GWB Impeachment - Talk of the town
What sense does it make that some of the same Washington media and political leaders who countenanced the Clinton impeachment over a semen-stained dress, somberly intoning about the "rule of law," consider impeaching Bush beyond the pale? No sense at all. The question about impeaching Bush has nothing to do with legal grounds, and everything to do with politics.

But in the last few weeks, the political climate has been changing, so that more people are seriously considering whether Bush has committed one or more impeachable offenses. The revelations about Bush's spying on Americans etc. <snip> Representatives Johns Conyers and John Lewis and Senator Barbara Boxer are talking, in public, about impeachment now.

Way at the left end of the dial, <snip> about last May, a group called After Downing Street <1> began working on an impeachment drive. While no member of Congress took up the call to draft articles of impeachment, the group's efforts launched Cindy Sheehan's crusade against Bush's war.

Now these same activists are organizing a grassroots campaign to support Representative John Conyers's bills to investigate Bush's conduct, with an eye toward impeachment (HR635) and censure Bush and Cheney for blocking Congress's access to information on intelligence manipulation, torture, and other misdeeds (HR636 and HR637).

On January 7, there will be town hall meetings around the country to drum up public awareness and support for Conyers's effort, and to publicize a report by the Democratic staff on the Judiciary Committee. You can download the whole thing from the web site CensureBush.org <2>. As more constitutional scholars, members of Congress, pundits, and American citizens talk about the grounds for impeachment, and examine the record, the drumbeat can only get louder. The only barrier is a sense of despair.

And, of course, groups like Progressive Democrats of America, who are pushing impeachment, hope the Dems can pick up enough seats in 2006 to take back the House. There is even a PAC, called ImpeachPAC <3>, which has raised $40,000 to support any member of Congress willing to support impeachment. The group points to a Zogby poll that shows 53 percent of Americans support impeachment if it can be proved that Bush lied about Iraq.

The Progressive, http://progressive.org, Impeachment Buzz - Ruth Conniff 12-27-2005

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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. if you don't believe shrub should be impeached,
Edited on Wed Dec-28-05 11:41 PM by unblock
then you don't believe in america.

it's as simple as that. ANYONE who wiretaps arbitrary americans without a warrant or probable cause deserves to be in PRISON, not the oval office.

this is EXACTLY the kind of "high crimes and misdemeanors" the founders had in mind as the reason for impeachment and removal.
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SushiFan Donating Member (309 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. LOTS of Dem apathy to GWB Impeach. Here @ DU too! nt
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. The GOP spin is that we're arguing over arcane legal distinctions
the president should be able to protect us, shouldn't he?
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. the gop spin is "he's republican, so what's the problem?"
so try this: "so i guess you don't mind the idea of president hillary clinton bugging the offices of her political opponents?"
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C_U_L8R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. so he's a crook
and that should be a big problem (for him, not us)
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info being Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #4
23. Why don't the dems declare they have the same power
That they should level the playing field by spying on opponents. If anyone is arrested, so should the president be.
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. yeah, but THEY have the nsa, the fbi, the cia....
democrats basically need to break in and commit other crimes as well in order to spy, whereas shrub can just tap the phones.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. Having free reign over the entire executive branch
is kinda hard to beat, isn't it?
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gizmo1979 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. And he could have protected us
just fine with a court ordered warrant.For whatever reason he failed to obtain a warrant thus he broke the law and should be sent to prison.
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Tigress DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 03:17 AM
Response to Reply #3
15. Ah, and these invasions of privacy helped catch Osama, right?
Oh, yeah. Gave up on that because it was hard work. Got it.

And we are so much safer with more and more of the world hating us because we went in and started bombing Iraq well before declaring war, it was just pre-pre-emptive festivities, not targeting select military necessities for many months as Tommy Thompson admitted in his book.

We're SO MUCH SAFER with those Quaint Geneva Conventions so Swiftly Kicked aside for OTHER countries or even OUR OWN People if they happen to fit the "profile" of a terrorist. I mean if they shoot everyone who LOOKS like Osama, eventually they will get him, right?


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BuelahWitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 07:39 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. Excellent argument!
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Jawja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #3
26. And this makes me madder
than hell - for Repugs now to come out and muddy the waters about a clear violation of his Oath of Office and the 4th Amendment to the Constitution with their spin on the issue.

What is also enrages me in now the Corporate Media is in "move along, nothing to see here" mode.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. You have just summed up
the main reason why many people (including myself) show up at DU. We might go crazy if we didn't have an outlet for our anger.
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Daphne08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 12:10 AM
Response to Original message
5. Link
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hopeisaplace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 12:49 AM
Response to Original message
8. President Cheney.
omg. *in need of a fainting icon*
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 01:37 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. will a fainting goat do?
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WhiteTara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. LOL
that's great!:applause:
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hopeisaplace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 03:06 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. LOL, I needed that
pretty damned funny
yep that will do
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SushiFan Donating Member (309 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 07:26 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. The thread was WORTH the goat!!! :) LOL
BTW, I read goatmeat is the most consumed animal meat in the world. I was planning to go to the farmers' mkt downtown today to get me some goat and maybe fix it with hot chile and tortillas, Mexican style!! :)
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area51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 03:24 AM
Response to Reply #8
16. Cheney
Look, we already have a pres. Cheney since he's running the show. If Bush were to be impeached, I think it might be a little more difficult for Cheney to govern b/c nobody likes him & Bush is the smiling face on fascism.
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Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 01:07 AM
Response to Original message
9. K & R - In my view, deliberately holding back from moving toward
impeachment supports the status quo. It isn't neutral. Whether or not impeachment is politically possible in this current climate, the dialog MUST begin and it MUST move forward.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 01:48 AM
Response to Original message
11. We should be talking about what the fundamentals of democracy are,
Edited on Thu Dec-29-05 01:49 AM by Peace Patriot
because we don't have any of them:

1. Transparent elections

Two far rightwing Bushite corporations--Diebold and ES&S--tabulated 80% of the votes in the 2004 election, using 'TRADE SECRET," PROPRIETARY programming code, with virtually no audit/recount controls. Such election systems were also in use, to a lesser degree, in the 2002 by-elections. Secret vote counting is, by definition, non-transparent. Non-transparent elections are not elections. They are tyranny.

2. The rule of law

The president has announced that he has broken the law 30 times and will continue to do so. The law he is breaking merely requires that he get a warrant from a secret court before or AFTER surveillance of Americans' phone conversations, showing probable cause. He also broke the law by inventing his own category of prisoner--"enemy combatant"--who does not have "prisoner of war" status, and protected human rights, as provided for under the Geneva Conventions, the Uniform Code of Military Justice and other laws; he has ordered or permitted the torture of these and other prisoners; and has conducted unnamed prisoners to secret locations for unknown purposes. He apparently believes that he can write his own laws to justify these actions.

3. Respect for the law by government officials; safety of persons and of the nation

The president has harbored treasonous individuals who have violated federal laws that protect the identities of covert US agents, and who have endangered the lives of US covert agents and foreign assets/contacts, who were engaged in weapons counter-proliferation projects of great importance to US national security. At least one such individual in the president's employ has been indicted for perjury and obstruction of justice connected to the investigation of this incident, yet the president has made no effort to investigate the matter himself, and to remove dangerous individuals from the government. No covert agent, or other government employee, can feel safe in such an atmosphere, and the example of lawlessness being protected creates disrespect for the law and general insecurity.

In addition, on September 11, 2001, the east coast of the US was attacked apparently by suicidal hijackers using commercial airlines as missiles to crash into the WTC in New York and the Pentagon in Washington DC. The standard operating procedures of the country's air defenses--NORAD and the US Air Force--were not followed on that day, and on that day only, and no satisfactory explanation or investigation has ever been conducted. One of the primary responsibilities of the president is to insure national security. The president failed in that responsibility in several ways before and during this attack, and has neither explained his failures, nor been held accountable for it by Congress.

4. Balance of powers

Protection of civil liberties, freedom from tyranny, and equal protection of the laws for all citizens require a balance of powers within government, which the US Constitution was designed to create. However, the two elected branches of the government--the president and Congress--both gained power in non-transparent elections, favoring one political party, the Republicans--in the case of the president, in the 2004 election, and in the case of Congress in the elections conducted in 2002 and 2004, with varying degrees of transparency, as the new electronic voting systems containing secret programming code controlled by partisans of the Republican Party came on line, resulting in two-thirds of Congress holding office with questionable legitimacy. These two branches tainted with non-transparent elections have been appointing and approving the judges in the third branch, the judiciary. The lack of a "balance of powers" and the overweening influence of one political party, the Republicans, is palpable, and is expressed in many ways, including the exclusion of Democratic Congressional representatives from meetings at which they are entitled to be present, the unfair tabling of Democratic initiatives, unfair scheduling of votes, and so on; and also in the overall lack of representation of the interests of the rank and file of the Democratic Party--workers, the poor, the middle class, small business, and many professions, who constitute at least half of the U.S. population.

5. Free speech

Aides of the president and vice president, and possibly these officials themselves, revealed the identity of covert US agents apparently as political punishment for publicly expressed views of the spouse of an outed agent. Such as action chills free speech, in that it sends the message to all potential dissenters that severe punishment may be inflicted by the president and his regime on any who speak out against them. Free speech is further curtailed by monopolistic practices by the country's news and opinion outlets, so that only the interests of big business and the upper classes are served by news publications and in use of the public airwaves.

6. Respect for oaths of office and the Constitution

The Constitution grants Congress the sole power to declare war. In October 2002, the Congress voted to transfer the power to declare war to the president, in the case of the invasion of sovereign foreign country, Iraq. The evaluation of the reasons for such an invasion--the offenses that Iraq was said to have committed--was therefore left entirely up to the president, who decided to invade and occupy that country for reasons that all turned out to be false, and that many persons on government and in other nations knew to be false. The members of Congress who voted to give away their power to declare war violated the Constitution and their oath of office to uphold the Constitution with the Iraq war resolution. And the president violated international law, and long-standing US foreign policy, by the arbitrary, pre-emptive, and large scale violence against innocent people, with no justification. Congress furthermore continues to fund this illegal and unnecessary war to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars.

7. Fair taxation, and taxation with representation

Throughout the planning and execution of an illegal war, the president and Congress have acted to remove the burden of the cost of that war from the richest of Americans and to place that burden on the poorest classes, by repeated tax cuts for the richest Americans, and tax cuts and tax breaks for large corporate business interests, while maintaining or increasing taxes on the poor and cutting all social programs that benefit the poor, the middle class, and small business. The poor and middle class, by far the largest population in the country, have meanwhile been denied proper representation in these decisions by means of non-transparent elections that are controlled by partisans of the president's political party. This is "taxation without representation"--the immediate cause of the first American Revolution.
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secretmouse Donating Member (95 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 02:25 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. ...and most likely,
the cause of the second American Revolution...these guys are wallowing in so much sycophany, that they think that history will not apply to them.

It makes me wonder about the Militias, out yonder in Wyoming and Montana...they mistrust the government big time....I used to think they were wingnuts...but maybe they're a step or two ahead of us!
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mwb970 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #13
19. What do those militia people think of the Ape?
You would think that they would be worried about losing their liberty, but it seemed that I heard much more about them during the Clinton presidency. Last I heard, people out west were living in caves because Clinton was going to use the Y2K "crisis" to declare martial law and (of course) confiscate all the guns. What do they think the Jerk is going to do?
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TransitJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #13
28. Militias in Wyoming?
Uh, a lifetime spent here, and never heard of one. The Freemen were in Montana....wasn't that like 15 years ago?
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secretmouse Donating Member (95 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-30-05 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. I'm Sorry!
For my obviously ignorant remark!..and apologies to the great State of Wyoming...I actually have no idea where militia groups are located,and the remark was not intended to be inflammatory in any way.
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LunaC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 08:27 AM
Response to Original message
20. To those attending the Town Hall meetings
This would be an invaluable Dropaganda opportunity - please see the link in my sig line for details. Thanks!
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greiner3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 09:03 AM
Response to Original message
21. Growing up in America in the late 60'2 and 70's;
I was cynical of politicans and the entire political process. I am following the current process closely and hope for my adult children that this constitutional crisis comes out the same as it did 2 decdes ago; the removal from office of a mentally disturbed person and the downfall of those who propped him up!
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ItsTheMediaStupid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
22. It's got a lot in common with Watergate
Watergate was a "third rate burglary."

Spygate is electronic burglary.

There's no need to break into the DNC headquarters or Daniel Ellsberg's psychiatrist's office - just tap their phones and read their email.
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