We are being played like a fiddle, but this came from a CONSERVATIVE!!!!

[originalpckelly]

You have to read this post I read on a mixed Dem/Repub forum:

All of us on this forum, from both major political parties have been gunning for each other, in this FORUM, for years. Why?

Until we all come together, to understand where the real Polarization is, and comes from; we will continue to think, and believe....WE THE PEOPLE are Divided.

I suggest. That is not the case at all. Generally, as I see it, and read most of the posts here. The supposed, or interpreted Divide between WE Americans, isn't between WE the People, but rather, the Divide created intentionally by politicians who are basically.....All From The Same Party, and Same mind-set.

So, the Real Divide in America isn't honestly between two Parties, but rather, between WASHINGTON DC, where the Elite, Holier-than-thou Elected Scam Artists spend most of their time....and the rest of Us...The people!

The problems we argue about every day, every time we create a thread, every time we ask a question really are not the Problems We Create, but rather the well hidden, easily disguised monumental problems....created by All Politicians who just know....for sure, they are, and always will be....SMARTER than All of us!

Just imagine a WASHINGTON DC, from the past, where long periods of travel prevented Politicians from spending so much time in Washington, and found them at home, back in their own districts....actually communicating with the people who Sent them to Washington in the first place! Maybe more would be accomplished by SPEAKING with the PEOPLE, than spending large percentages of their Political Time.....seeking out, and gathering funds?

Hell. If CONGRESS spent less time in Washington....Maybe, when they actually got together in the Capitol Building.....they'd actually get THE PEOPLES BUSINESS ACCOMPLISHED for a change.

2006 should become the Year....All of us Neglected, Uninformed, Polarized Americans actually take back our Government.

Instead of wondering who will do the work Americans Won't do, saying Illegal Aliens deserve to work here. It's time to put as many Politicians out in the fields, behind the rakes, pushing the lawn mowers, and holding their Weed Whackers, and replace them with Honorable, Truthful, Representatives of the PEOPLE for a change.

Though this idea would create an Increase in Unemployment, from every state in the Union.... 435 new Farm workers from the House, and 100 new Waiters for Taco Bell, from the Senate, just might make some Politicians Take Notice....

Who's supposed to be in charge!

This guy is a super-conservative to. Think about it, they're catching on, FINALLY!!! Democrats and Republicans will always have differences, but I'll tell you what, nothing that is going in Washington, D.C. represent either party's true fundamental beliefs.

There is hope for our nation, we just need to throw all the bums out on their bums. From now on, if you live in a district wherein a Congressperson has lost their spine, vote for another person in your primary. Our republic is in danger, you only have to look at that comment Mr. Kristol let slip this morning to know that.

I have become convinced that in some way, shape or form, there is a conspiracy to overthrow the government of the United States. If some wacko-conservative can tell, we know we are in deep shit.

Hopefully, we can stop this crap before it continues.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

1. Kicked and Recommended

[I Have A Dream]

2. K & R.

:kick:

[Jeffersons Ghost]

8. kick

:kick:

[Land Shark]

3. I said something roughly similar to this to a Pat Robertson state level

campaign officer and he said he loved to hear a democrat talking like that (i added also a comment about the disloyalty to america some international corporations)

Social issues = wedge issues. We need to realize that while we disagree about abortion, gun control, gay rights, etc., THAT'S DEMOCRACY BABY. In being in favor of democracy, we recognize the right to disagree on these things.

But what rises above that in importance is the destruction of democracy through secret electronic voting, the destruction of the economy by treasonous decisions to outsource america, the lack of community spirit when the able but single-minded engine of corporations is not under legislative rein.

Pat robertson's guy, one of many, a bush voter twice, is ON BOARD with that. Imagine that. He wants to talk more about it.

[Sinti]

4. K&R! There used to be a time when Ds and Rs could sit and talk like

reasonable, rational folks about their differences. Both parties now seem to be catering to the select few that hoard the wealth, the means of production, and look at the rest of us as basically cattle. Corporations have not just person-hood, but technically an elevated status of person-hood. If it's going to hurt them or us, well... you know who gets the beating.

[DarkTirade]

22. There are still some republicans who can be talked to...

the problem is that the die-hard Bush voters, like Bush himself, are not actually republican.

[dogman]

5. I think this is just a Trojan Horse.

Now that there is a potential change in balance in Congress, the other side would like to further demonize Congress. Congress is already held in low esteem and and the possibility of any Dem majorities sets the stage for the '08 GOP Pres candidate to run against Congress. We do not necessarily need to overturn the whole Congress, we need to remove the failed leadership. This smacks of the Unity '08 meme.

[bvar22]

6. This is where 'The American People" are:

http://alternet.org/story/29788/
"It doesn't get covered by the corporate media (imagine that), but mainstream polls consistently find that big majorities of Americans are not meek centrists, but overt, tub-thumping, FDR progressives who are seeking far more populist gumption and governmental action than any Democratic congressional leader or presidential contender has dared to imagine. In recent polls by the Pew Research Group, the Opinion Research Corporation, the Wall Street Journal, and CBS News, the American majority has made clear how it feels. Look at how the majority feels about some of the issues that you'd think would be gospel to a real Democratic party:

1. 65 percent say the government should guarantee health insurance for everyone -- even if it means raising taxes.

2. 86 percent favor raising the minimum wage (including 79 percent of selfdescribed "social conservatives").

3. 60 percent favor repealing either all of Bush's tax cuts or at least those cuts that went to the rich.

4. 66 percent would reduce the deficit not by cutting domestic spending but by reducing Pentagon spending or raising taxes.

5. 77 percent believe the country should do "whatever it takes" to protect the environment.

6. 87 percent think big oil corporations are gouging consumers, and 80 percent (including 76 percent of Republicans) would support a windfall profits tax on the oil giants if the revenues went for more research on alternative fuels.

7. 69 percent agree that corporate offshoring of jobs is bad for the U.S. economy (78 percent of "disaffected" voters think this), and only 22% believe offshoring is good because "it keeps costs down."

8. Over 65% of all Americans believe that the Invasion of Iraq was a mistake.




Why is Washington DC (Democrats AND Republicans) pushing another agenda?


The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

[Joe Chi Minh]

15. You're absolutely on fire, bvar22, and your closing aphorism

nails it.

[tridim]

7. That's mostly true, but at least..

At LEAST there are a handful of Democrats in office who fight for the people. We don't need to throw them all out, just most of them.

[Lost-in-FL]

9. You know how much money would be saved if Congress

use Teleconference? It might sound dumb but many companies use teleconferencing to run business.

At least they would spend more time with their constituents and see what the people REALLY want from

Congress to accomplish. I don't know. Just an idea.

[987654321]

10. Thanks for sharing.

My father-in-law is a super conservative and I avoided talking politics with him because it would always end up in an argument of some sort. Times have changed so much. He even voted Democratic in the last two Presidential elections! We still have fundamental differences in our ideology, however, we both agree that our democracy is threatened by the powers that be. He is extremely pissed off at his party, but believes there are influential members of both parties who have sold the country out. I no longer fear talking politics with him because regardless of our differences, we both love our country and believe in the principles of our constitution and the bill of rights.

Funny thing how the only positive thing in my life that these assholes in D.C. have done these last six years, including the President, is help me get along better with my father-in-law.

[GuvWurld]

11. This is central to the premise of Blueprint For Peaceful Revolution

Thursday, September 22, 2005
A Blueprint For Peaceful Revolution

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another...they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
- United States Declaration of Independence
So be it: A Blueprint for Peaceful Revolution
By Dave Berman
9/22/05

Executive Summary

We The People have been divided into a Cold Civil War*. This divide was intentionally created by a government that does not seek the Consent of the Governed. Unverifiable "elections" leave no basis for confidence in the results reported, and make this government's power illegitimate. This government benefits from being divisive, and from the inherent uncertainty it creates with Orwellian paradoxes. This paper describes consensus-building measures to heal the divide. It is recommended that communities across the U.S. support a Voter Confidence Resolution** (VCR), modeled after the template language already adopted in Arcata, CA. Part of this campaign involves contrasting proposed election reforms with current conditions to expose the myth of democracy. Other such myths are discussed in this paper and ideas for debunking them are presented as part of the process of consensus building and divide healing. Peaceful revolution is defined as a shift in the balance of power between the government and We The People. Therefore, going from having no say in elections, to having any say at all, is necessarily revolutionary. The essentials of the VCR lay out the parameters for defining success: we must ensure conclusive election outcomes, create a basis for confidence in the results reported, and establish an accountable government genuinely representing us with our Consent. No one single reform can achieve all this and so we must embrace both the notion of an election reform platform, and the broader paradigm of peaceful revolution.

* A Google search of "cold civil war" returns over 1000 hits. It is not clear who first used the phrase or when, though a German newspaper is cited from 1949 and Ayn Rand used it in the LA Times in 1962. References have been more frequent since the November 2000 U.S. presidential election and generally bear a surface level resemblance to the use in this paper.

** Voter Confidence Resolution, as adopted by Arcata, CA on 7/20/05: http://tinyurl.com/cr2va

Read the entire paper here: http://tinyurl.com/au2pj
This paper is also included in my new book, We Do Not Consent (free .pdf download)

[Joe Chi Minh]

16. Wow. I can't bring myself to read the whole article, because it is

true enough for me to find deeply distressing. I kind of thought I'd become quite hard-boiled at the shenagens these corporatists get up to, but just the first page or two gutted me.

[w4rma]

12. It is a bad idea to focus on only D.C. It's primarily Wall Street.

Wall Street gives the orders to D.C. policitians. And the ultra-wealthy would rather you look only at the politicians and ignore them working behind the scenes for their own profit.

[tulsakatz]

13. yesterday on Russert's show....

....Markos (of DailyKos) said a similar thing. He said that Lieberman, for instance, hasn't lived in his home state for 7 yrs! So it's no wonder that he doesn't know what's important to people there.

I agree completely! If these people who are supposed to be representing us, don't even know us, they should be kicked out!! Nothing would make me happier than to see some of these guys standing in the unemployment line!!! Maybe then, they would realize which issues are more important to us!!!

And I guarantee you.........none of those issues would involve same sex marriage!!!

[RandomKoolzip]

14. Taco Bell has "waiters?!"

Methinks THIS GUY doesn't spend much time around real people either.

[many a good man]

23. LOL!

:kick:

[Jeffersons Ghost]

17. whiile a picture is worth 1,000 words is this one worth $500 BILLION?

[MrBenchley]

18. Seems to me just a variation of an old right wing trick:

When denial fails, the next page in the playbook has always been "Both parties are the same"....

[struggle4progress]

19. "When in doubt, vote em out"

[Swamp Rat]

20. kick and recommended! n/t

[texanshatingbush]

21. The root cause of the problem is a bit more subtle......

Some observations on the following statement made by the super-conservative:

Just imagine a WASHINGTON DC, from the past, where long periods of travel prevented Politicians from spending so much time in Washington, and found them at home, back in their own districts....actually communicating with the people who sent them to Washington in the first place!

Bob Schieffer noted in his autobiography ("This Just In: What I couldn't Tell You on TV"--a great read) that in the "olden days", our elected representatives spent MORE time in DC, since it took a large chunk of time to travel home back then. Now, he observes,"the personal relationships that used to develop between Republicans and Democrats almost never happen anymore...Congress and the Senate generally meet only Tuesday through Thursday..the sessions run long into the night. The dinners and other activities that used to bring members together informally no longer happen...When members do have a free evening, it is usually devoted to fund raising activities."

So while I agree that the our elected representatives are NOT taking care of The People's Business, I think the root causes of the problem need to be identified as:

1) fund-raising trumps The People's Business. Need to get rid of PACs and limit monetary influence of lobbyists if we have any hope of changing the paradigm from "the best government money can buy" to "the government doing the will of The People"

2) gerrymandering enables incumbents to retain their offices and to hell with the will of The People, as long as the incumbents satisfy the wishes of their base. Only solution I can think of is not allowing the political process to draw legislative districts--need some objective entity to do that. Does anyone have any ideas on better ways to draw legislative districts?

[DaveColorado]

24. What comment would that be?

"Our republic is in danger, you only have to look at that comment Mr. Kristol let slip this morning to know that."

[B Calm]

25. Excuse me, but it's the right-wingers who come up with wedge issues

one after another, not democrats..

[Ganja Ninja]

30. Exactly! He's still not willing to put the blame where it belongs.

Notice how these people are when they finally get fed up with the people they voted for. It's not their fault for falling for the Republican con-men they voted for. They blame all the politicians.
They bite on weenie after weenie whether it be bombing Arabs, cutting entitlements for the poor, mindlessly lashing out at immigrants or raging over gay marriage. They can't get any satisfaction and they blame it on everyone but themselves. If they weren't so hateful they wouldn't be so easily manipulated.

[unpossibles]

26. I don't know...

I am all for uniting, and all for making sure that politicians of any party are honest and held responsible, but...




god damn it - they spend 20 years vilifying liberals and lefties, and now that the vast majority has caught on to their BS hate-filled smear tactic lies, they want to unite? Fuck 'em.

They made us walk the plank a long time ago, so let them go down on the ship because they couldn't be bothered spending their ill-gotten money on lifeboats.



It's the timing of this that bothers me. Honestly, I still don't mind what party someone is as long as they give me the same respect.

[Ensalada]

27. i get why you like this but......

if you read that diabtibe frm a different standpoint, it's really thinking like this that got * the votes & supprt he got in the 1st place. the "think they're smarter thn us" business smacks of anti-gore anti-intellectualism. the "pushing lawnmowers' business is what makes the brush-clearing texas salt o' the earth cutesy malapropism soundbite garbage attractive. its the conservative (or just plain american) inferiority complex, or a suspicion of betterness left over from the Smartipants-Soviet fear, that pushs Americans toward "leaders" tht dont make ppl feel dumb-----when of coures the point of a lEADER is tht he/she's represenatative of the best qualities, intellect, bravery, guts, posture, eloquence etc, that maybe he/she IS better than us, & not only are we ok w that, we should be able to rely on it and them to be the mst qualified to bring our needs to the table.

[ThomWV]

28. Today's Meme: Its not the people, its the politicians.

No its not.

Its the Fucking REPUBLICAN PARTY.

[kittenpants]

29. oops, wrong thread.

[welshTerrier2]

31. "actually communicating with the people who Sent them to Washington"

what a radical thought!

wouldn't that be something? imagine having a government that actually interacted with voters BEFORE they "represented" us ... maybe then they would actually know what we think and what we value ...

these interactions should also provide elected leaders with a chance to educate the voters on the critical choices that need to be made ... this process is sorely lacking ... with an ill-informed electorate, democracy almost becomes pointless ...

[Toots]

32. Throw the bums out......

I agree with the poster in a lot of ways. Remember the Majority rules in congress and lately it has been with an iron fist. Throw the rulers out and change the way politics is done.