More on that video game...an email from the fundies

[huskerlaw]

A little backstory...my mom is a Dobson-loving Republican. I sent her an email about that horrible video game that encourages the fundies to kill people they don't agree with. To her credit, she was horrified, and promised to send an email to the people at "Purpose Driven Ministries"...the group that is apparently tied to the Purpose Driven Life books, etc.

Here's what she got back...

Hi ---

Rick Warren, Saddleback Church, and Purpose Driven Ministries have no connection to the development of the "Left Behind: Eternal Forces" video game. We have not endorsed it and do not plan to promote it in our networks.

One of our staff members, Mark Carver, sat on the advisory board for Left Behind Games, and a blogger took that information and jumped to a conclusion that Pastor Rick was involved with marketing the game. That simply isn't true, a fact the blogger could have verified had he
contacted Pastor Rick, Mark Carver, or Left Behind Games. In order to avoid any confusion about the fact that Rick Warren, Saddleback Church, and Purpose Driven Ministries have no involvement with Left Behind Games, Mark Carver resigned from the board of advisors on June 5, 2006 and asked that
the reference to him be removed from Left Behind Games website.

We applaud efforts to develop wholesome video games that engage young people, and we deplore games that mesmerize young players with gratuitous violence and sexuality. We understand that this is a "real-time strategy game," not a "first-person shooter game" as it has been characterized by critics. We have not, however, seen the game. We encourage people with questions about it to contact the developer.

Blessings,
Barbara
Purpose Driven Life Customer Care


**So, basically, they had a staff member on the board of advisors until last week, but they are claiming to have no connection to the game. And they're against violent video games, but this one's ok because it's a strategy game. Got that?


:banghead: :grr:

[unpossibles]

1. right. it's ok to STRATEGICALLY kill your enemies

as long as you don't do it yourself. Hmm. Sounds A LOT like the Bush maladministration to me!

[huskerlaw]

6. Well, having an actual strategy

when conducting mass killings is a new thing for the Repubs...

;)

[unpossibles]

11. haha... true.

but then again, their "stratergification" is simple - "I want you poor people to kill all those other poor people"

[RaleighNCDUer]

16. Haw!

was my first reaction.

But it really isn't funny, is it.

Well put.

[huskerlaw]

25. It's not funny

in the least. Only sad.

And yet, true. x(

[RaleighNCDUer]

2. I have not seen the game, but the screen capture I saw makes it look

like an RPG, not 1st person shooter OR strategy. I guess that would technically make it a 2nd person shooter.

So are they disassociating themselves from Carver? Or Left Behind Games? If there is no connection between them and LBG, why would Carver resign his position on LBG?

This sounds a bit like a panicky CYA letter, to me.

[huskerlaw]

7. The way I read it

they basically admit that the guy resigned from the board to avoid a PR problem. Nothing in that statement denounces the content of the game, IMO.

So yeah, definitely a CYA letter.

[olaus]

3. Maybe

it is just me but that is not how I read their statement. They stood up and stated the facts, the person resigned they said they have not seen the game. What else do you want them to say?

[huskerlaw]

5. I don't see how they can claim

to know nothing about it when their guy resigned LAST WEEK. The screencap's been around longer than that, which means he was on the board for the entire development process.

I suppose it's possible that they haven't seen the final product, but to claim they know nothing about it sounds like pure bullshit to me.

[Ohio Joe]

8. I think I agree with olaus

The oard finds out that one of their own is involved with something they don't like, he resigns, I don't think this is a very uncommon occurance. Boards do not always know what other projects their members are involved in. As well, I do not see anywhere in their statement that they say the game is OK, they really do not say much of anything. This is the first i've heard of this game or this group so maybe there is more to it then I know but I'm just not seeing what the issue is with this group. I guess I just don't see why anyone should care about them in anyway.

[huskerlaw]

10. Ok, for the sake of argument

let's assume they honestly didn't know about the game until last week. They find out that the company is developing a game which encourages Christians to kill Jews, Muslims, scientists, and people that believe in the separation of church and state (among others). They think "oh crap, we can't be associated with this...he's gotta resign". Guy resigns. Great.

Meanwhile, I'm still not seeing a statement denouncing the content of the game. They say that they don't support video games with gratuitous violence. One glance at a screencap and a brief reading of the developer-supplied summary tells us all that this game is all about the violence. And then they say that from what they know, it's a strategy game, not a first-person shooter game. I don't know about you, but I don't particularly give 2 shits if they're killing strategically or going on a random shooting spree. Though legally, strategic pre-planning actually makes the crime worse.

The fact that they don't take a stand against the game whatsoever in their statement leads me to believe that the resignation of the board member was for PR purposes, not because they actually disagree with the content.

[Ohio Joe]

12. I understand and agree with that but...

On the other hand, if it is indeed true they had nothing to do with this particular game, why should they be required to do more then make a blanket statement that they oppose all violent games? Should they have to make a statement regarding every violent game made? They appear to be some type of fundies and I oppose that mindset, I think it is a very real danger regardless of what type of fundie but I also don't think anyone should have to make a disclaimer about everything down to a detailed level for things they disagree with.

[huskerlaw]

13. Because

they contradict themselves.

They say the following:

1. We know nothing about this game.

2. We are against violent video games.

3. From our understanding, this video game is strategic, not first-hand.

Statement #3 contradicts statements 1 and 2.
-They can't both know nothing about the game and claim that it's strategic. If they know it's strategic, they know something about the game.
-They can't both be against violent video games and defend this one. The violence of the game is not mitigated by whether it's strategic or first hand. People still die. The video game player is still the one that kills them.

[Ohio Joe]

14. Not true

They do not say they know nothing about the game, they say they have not seen it, not the same thing. Also, Saying a game is RTS rather then FPS is not any type of endorsement or a defense, as used it is a statement of understanding only of what type of game it is.

[huskerlaw]

15. You said it yourself...

"On the other hand, if it is indeed true they had nothing to do with this particular game, why should they be required to do more then make a blanket statement that they oppose all violent games?"

Either they know about it or they don't. If they do know about it, they need to denounce it, and they didn't. They qualified a blanket statement about violent video games. They don't say one single negative thing about this one in particular. If they don't know about it, they shouldn't try to make distinctions about what type of game it is.

My interpretation of the statement, based on what they did say and also what they did not, is that they know what's in it and realize that being tied to it is a PR nightmare. So the guy resigned from the board and now they think they're absolved of responsibility. But IMO, they are still responsible because they're not calling it out. Silence, in this case, is acceptance.

[Ohio Joe]

17. I understand what your saying and...

I agree they are doing it for PR reasons. I also really don't see why they are obligated to do more though. If they were to denounce this specific game, it would appear to me that they were indeed attached to it at some point and their claim is they were not. Their correction of the genre of the game I saw as a reinforcement of the original report not being researched correctly.

I see this as going down kind of like this:

1) report associating them with the game is released.
2) board member that is associated is confronted, he tells what he knows and is asked to resign.
3) the receive the request for more info and respond with above letter.

I just don't see anything improper here... CYA, definitely, improper, no.

Ahh, well, we disagree. I'm sorry but I cannot continue at this time, I can only post from work and am leaving till Monday. If you would like to continue the discussion, please feel free to PM me and we can resume next week. Otherwise, have a great weekend.

[Tsiyu]

20. If they were truly morally superior

as their wholesome names ( like "Pastor Rick" ) suggest, they would thoroughly and completely express disgust at this game.

To say they "have not seen the game" is bullshit. Morally RESPONSIBLE people stay informed and morally RESPONSIBLE companies pay attention to what their people are doing.

To call this a "strategy game" therbey hoping to minimize my disgust only disgusts me more.

Sick, sick fundies playing sick, sick games cuz Jeebus Gawd loves them BEST!!!!!!!

[bobbieinok]

22. see my post #21 + the discussion in the link of the church's hypocrisy

[damntexdem]

4. I'm sorry but: their logic leaves me behind.

I guess I'll just have to turn the other cheek -- the left one, of course.

[slybacon9]

9. "We don't support it. That being said, we totally support it."

[sutz12]

18. Denial is their stock in trade....

Of course they "didn't know anything about it." Of course, "we would never support it if it was violent. Is it?" :sarcasm:

[gratuitous]

19. Why drag me into it?

I don't know what violence and sexuality Barbara at Purpose Driven Life is referring to, but it's certainly not mine!

However, just for a giggle huskerlaw, ask your mom to write back to Barbara and have Barbara explain the difference between a "real-time strategy game" and a "first-person shooter game." Betcha a nickel Barbara doesn't answer.

And that's a genuine, accept-no-substitutes bit of gratuitous snark!

[huskerlaw]

23. I wish I could

however, my mother seems to think this response proves they had nothing to do with it...she's totally satisfied with the answer.

Sigh.

[bobbieinok]

21. talk2action is the 'blog' and this is the 'blogger's' report on this

http://www.talk2action.org/story/2006/6/7/41835/37829

Revelation and Resignation (Part 3)
By Jonathan Hutson Wed Jun 07, 2006 at 04:18:34 AM EST

Mark Carver, a top aide to mega-church pastor and best selling author Rick Warren, has resigned as a business advisor to Left Behind Games, the developers of a video game in which Christian militias wage physical and spiritual warfare using the power of prayer and modern military weaponry to convert New Yorkers and kill those who resist. Mr. Carver's abrupt resignation, announced in a statement e-mailed to Talk to Action by Mr. Warren's Purpose Driven Ministries on June 6, 2006, came in response to a two-part series on Talk to Action that criticized the game's antisocial nature (warriors shout "Praise the Lord!" as they blow infidels away, and players can switch to the side of the AntiChrist to kill Christians). The series also revealed the game developer's links to Mr. Warren's empire and their emulation of his network marketing techniques. For example, Mr. Carver, Executive Director of Purpose Driven Church, served on the Advisory Board of Left Behind Games, a corporation formed in October 2001 (weeks after the attack on the World Trade Center) to develop the violent video game and distribute 1 million sample discs through pastoral networks and mega-churches. And until June 6, the Left Behind Games web site featured Mr. Carver's name and detailed his prominent role in Purpose Driven Church.

Although Talk to Action did not claim that Mr. Warren himself had developed, distributed, or endorsed the game, it held him accountable for the use of the Purpose Driven name brand in the game's web-based marketing material, and asked whether his mega-church and global pastoral network planned to distribute the game. In response, Mr. Carver has requested that his name as well as the Purpose Driven name brand be removed from the Left Behind Games web site (which actions followed promptly), and Purpose Driven Ministries has promised not to distribute or promote the game. In its statement, Mr. Warren's organization criticized Talk to Action's approach, but did not rebut any of the facts or claims presented.

Talk to Action had argued that what was going on was an old-fashioned business practice, "endorsement by association." By its actions, Purpose Driven Ministries showed its understanding of this argument, and acted accordingly:...


In other words, as of June 6, organizations in Mr. Warren's empire "have no connection" to the development of the video game, because on June 5, a top aide to Mr. Warren resigned from his position giving business advice to Left Behind Games, and asked that the corporation stop invoking the name brand of Mr. Warren's Purpose Driven Church. Now the organizations are making a public relations retreat, taking brisk, small steps, and making little noise about it, while at the same time attacking the messenger, and still refusing to condemn the gory game that glorifies violence and lets children strategize how to kill in the name of Christ, or the AntiChrist. Will the pastor dubbed by Time Magazine as "America's Minister" outright condemn the game and lead a boycott of any mega-churches and chain stores that plan to distribute it? The Purpose Driven Ministry's web site proudly proclaims that U.S. News & World Report named Rick Warren among "America's Best Leaders" in 2005. This is a moment to display pastoral leadership.

....

So what happened on June 6 besides a sudden, quiet resignation and the withdrawal of a ministry's name brand from a corporate web site? Purpose Driven Ministries invoked a straw-man argument - a misleading attempt to persuade by falsely characterizing a speaker's position, then pretending that the speaker's actual claims have been refuted. Mark Kelly, News Director of Purpose Driven Ministries, used the June 6 statement to prop up and push over this straw man argument:

....

Purpose Driven Ministries' original media plan, according to personal e-mails obtained by Talk to Action and verified by Mr. Kelly, was to say nothing and pray for the Internet storm

....

So if the Left Behind: Eternal Forces game is embarrassing enough for Mr. Carver to resign from the Advisory Board of Left Behind Games, if this antisocial product is creepy enough to cause the Purpose Driven Ministry to disassociate its name brand from the Left Behind Games web site, then why should Mr. Warren's mega-church ministry fail to publicly condemn what its news director has privately disdained? Is the killing of infidels on the streets of New York, while Christian militias shout "Praise the Lord!" merely a matter of "extremely bad taste"? Is the idea of demons eating Christians alive merely a faux pas? Is the concept of a mega-church distributing advance copies of a video game that lets children try their hand at commanding the forces of the AntiChrist just some kind of social gaffe? Is crass profiteering off a game that evokes 9/11 just awfully regrettable but better not spoken about in polite society?

more....

*****

talk2action's articles on this 'game'---

The Purpose Driven Life Takers (Part 1)

Violent Video Marketed Through Mega-Churches (Part 2)

Revelation and Resignation (Part 3)

Christian Cadre's Layman: 'A Whopper of Being Wrong' (Part 4)

Apocalypse, Now a Lawsuit (Part 5)

[huskerlaw]

24. Thank you

for that information...very interesting, indeed.